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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:09 pm 
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since the question has come up before and since i just got done swapping the worn out engine in the 98 hatchback i picked up for winter duty with an older, better running 3 banger, i thought i'd lay out the conversion for anyone who might need to know what it entails.

first off, the obdII ecu in the 98 needs a crank sensor. to get that on an older engine (mk2/ mk3) you need to swap the oil pan and oil pump to physically add the sensor. you also need to use the toothed timing belt pulley from the newer engine that has the encoder poles that trigger the sensor. since that pulley is for use with the wider, rounded teeth on the timing belt, you also need to swap the cam pulley and use the newer style timing belt. since the timing belt is wider, you swap the tensioner to the newer part and use the plastic cover off the newer model to accomodate the wider pulleys and belt. having used the newer style crank pulley, it has 5 bolts to hold the accessory belt pulley on as well as having a locating pin. that means that you have to use the newer style accessory drive pulley that has 4 ribs. then, because of that, you have to use the newer water pump pulley and the newer 55 amp alternator and a 4 rib fan belt.

in addition to that, you have to swap the water pick up tube along the back side of the block to the newer style along with the thermostat housing and water neck. the temperature sender is different for the newer cars and can't be screwed into the older style t'stat housing.

<CAUTION> there is a difference in the block castings between the older and newer engines. there is also a difference between oil pump gaskets. the newer blocks have a bulge at the oil galley. the oem steel and later model aftermarket gaskets have a slotted hole, the older style has a round hole at the high pressure side outlet. if you use the late model pump and it's gasket, the oil will shoot out the front side of the block. the key here is to use the late model pump with an earlier gasket - round hole not slotted.


the easiest part is swapping the complete intake manifold with all it's sensors and gizmos. all the wiring will connect up and all the sensors will be right for the obdII system.

add this to the list - the 98 electronics didn't like the 92 distributor. i replaced it with the one from the newer engine and it fired right up.

that's it. the list got longer as i got into the job and in the past i've always just said that you just change the oil pan and pump (because that always seems to be the grimiest job.) i hope this is searchable and helps fill out the archives. :D

edited to add distributor oil pump gasket warning to the list.

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1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

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Last edited by t3 ragtop on Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:39 pm 
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I'm gonna Stickie this until I get around to adding an Index for this section. Good stuff T3 ragtop! :thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:06 am 
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Quote:
<CAUTION> there is a difference in the block castings between the older and newer engines. there is also a difference between oil pump gaskets. the newer blocks have a bulge at the oil galley. the oem steel and later model aftermarket gaskets have a slotted hole, the older style has a round hole at the high pressure side outlet. if you use the late model pump and it's gasket, the oil will shoot out the front side of the block. the key here is to use the late model pump with an earlier gasket - round hole not slotted.


If only I had seen this 2 weeks ago. Just did the swap & sure enough, it dumped all the oil. I think I stopped it in time though. Everything else seems right. Now I just need to find the gasket.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:29 pm 
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Great rightup about the 3 cyl. swap.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:10 pm 
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Yes, this is a very accurate writeup. Pretty much exactly what I had to do. I might add that this is a great time to make sure that the EGR passages are all perfectly clear. Despite reaming mine not but 6 months ago, they were pretty clogged. Looks like no matter how well you ream the passages, they still stay a bit clogged. Also, don't forget to keep the original the O2 sensor (I just swapped the manifold). I found that when removing the engine, that it was easier for me to remove the transmission mount bolts as well (leaving it on a jack). It allowed me to tilt the engine enough to clear the frame rails. Even then, it's tight.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:23 pm 
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normalicy wrote:
Yes, this is a very accurate writeup. Pretty much exactly what I had to do. I might add that this is a great time to make sure that the EGR passages are all perfectly clear. Despite reaming mine not but 6 months ago, they were pretty clogged. Looks like no matter how well you ream the passages, they still stay a bit clogged. Also, don't forget to keep the original the O2 sensor (I just swapped the manifold). I found that when removing the engine, that it was easier for me to remove the transmission mount bolts as well (leaving it on a jack). It allowed me to tilt the engine enough to clear the frame rails. Even then, it's tight.


super! thanks for those additions.

it came to mind that i had also just pulled the 98 exhaust manifold with it's 4 wire o2 sensor off the block prior to pulling the engine. that let the exhaust remain, unmolested, in the newer chassis.

i also cleared the egr passages while prepping the replacement engine. i had pulled the 98 intake off to swap to the other block and i cleared those passageways as well.

it occurs to me that removing the transmission mount on the left side would have made things easier. clearance was very tight and it took some maneuvering of the power unit as it was lowered into the engine bay. it was absolutely a requirement that the a/c compressor and mounting bracket came off to pull the engine.

feel free to post additions to this thread.

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1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 12:01 am 
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No problem, I give credit though, it was tough thinking of anything you didn't put down. Like I said, I just wish I had seen this a few weeks earlier, because I had to tear half the engine apart to replace that darn oil pump gasket. But it's held up just fine ever since.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:49 am 
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Glad I found this. I'm in the midst of swapping a 1.0l into my 96 and just discovered there's no hole for the crank sensor. Hopefully I can transfer the oil pump and everything else form the original 96 motor. I don't know what year my replacement motor is bur after reading this thread I've noticed the different pulley on the alternator. My 96 motor sometimes spin fast when cranked like there was no compression at all, then after sitting a while the compression would come back and it would run fine. It finally got worse to where it would start and die and than no compression. I think the lifters were either collapsing or pumping up and holding the valves open. Otherwise what it was doing seems impossible. I also has a bad knock and 196000 miles so it has to come out.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:42 pm 
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So will all this apply if I try to put a 94 engine into a 96? And if it does, is there any way around it as in swap the computer from a 94 into the 96? Thanks.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:50 am 
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Yup, you'll have to do this. Believe me, it's easier to do this than swap the computer. Heck, much of it needs to be done anyhow. This is totally doable in one day if you have everything you need.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:47 pm 
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Crank pulleys are different as well. The early is key slotted, the late is pinned. The late lower gear/wheel is 1/4 inch wider than early, which is probably why you run out of length on the end of the crankshaft.

What part store carries the early oil pump gasket? And late oil pan gasket? What brand and part #'s???

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:34 pm 
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The pulleys were mentioned in the original post.

For the gasket, I just got mine at Parts America (don't know part#, I just asked for a gasket for a '91 Geo Metro). Ebay also sells entire engine kits (which you'll need most of the gaskets for this swap anyhow) for little more than I was able to get the gasket from parts america for.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:39 pm 
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Oil pan gasket for crank sensor lates: Felpro OS30700C $14

early bottom end gasket kit contains oil pump gasket for early block: (are called "conversion set")
Felpro CS9435 $53 retail (found one at Rock Auto)
Victor CS5874A (found one at CarQuest)

late bottom end gasket kit contains oil pump gasket for late block:
Felpro CS9435-1

89-95 Clevite Oil Pump (no crank sensor) 6018085 $163
96-98 Clevite oil pump (with crank sensor hole) $228

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95 Metro hatch "Tequila lime" all stock
F/S 3Tech economy cam
F/S 90 Metro hatch
F/S 89 Swift GTi body only
F/S 92 Tracker 2 dr rwd stock
93 Sidekick 4 dr 1.9 vw TD, WVO conversion, 6" lift over 33's


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:28 pm 
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Here's what I got. Everything you'd need for $37 shipped.

89-95 1.0 Geo Metro G10 SOHC 6V Full Gasket Set
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/89-95-1-0-Geo-Metro-G10-SOHC-6V-Full-Gasket-Set_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247QQcategoryZ33665QQihZ012QQitemZ220274721436

I don't recommend an oil pan gasket on this car, because it was actually designed to use the high temperature silicone (orange stuff). I've replaced 3 oil pans with the stuff (that by the way only cost me $5 for the one tube & I've still got some left) with nary a leak. Just lay down an 1/8" thick bead around the entire oil pan & you're set Make certain that all oil & debris is removed though, I recommend a wire wheel followed by carb cleaner.

The oil pump that came with the newer engine should be fine, I've got 270,000 miles on mine & it's still ticking. Heck, the price of the oil pumps are almost as much as a friggen engine.

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