TeamSwift

Home of the Suzuki mini-compacts ! Your Home for all things Suzuki Swift, Geo Metro, Holden Barina, Chevy Sprint, Pontiac Firefly, and Suzuki Cultus. TeamSwift is a technical performance oriented community!
It is currently Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:41 pm

Underbody braces, turbos and more!

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 9:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 12:10 pm
Posts: 9
Location: denver, colorado
Freshly rebuilt 98 16v moto0r (obd2). complete -car-transplant into a 95 body (wasn't too bad of a project,just took too many delays and weekends to do...Yeah, and it has the autotranny.. there weren't ANY available '98+ 16v/5spd parts cars -so I could have that 5spd I've been wanting..) Anyways....
I'm in the initial first few hours of letting it run and driving around the parking lot. Everything checks out with the entire, fully rewired harness, the timing, the motor -no wierd variables going on. The motor got .02 over pistons, 3 angle valve grind, it inherited a 3tech ground cam (Thanks to Mike), stainless ex.valves, and the appropriate throttle body swap from the 1.6 esteem.
So I'm still getting used to the whole process of understanding what sounds are going to be expected from a fresh rebuild and what sounds shouldn't be there. So far, aside from the acceptable lifters noise, all I'm hearing is the ticking of the injectors, and some kind of swooshing sound coming from the crank pully - that goes away when you accelerate, but comes back at idle - might have to see if it's a loose alt/water belt....

So when upon it's maiden test drive -across the parking lot - I noticed there wasn't the "oomph" and responsiveness (outside of it having the torque lag from it having an autobox) that I was expecting from a freshly built motor. And something isn't right. The exhaust smelling a little rich and the Service light came on. Hooked up my new favorite toy, a usb-obd2 adapter to my laptop, and I found it kicking back a
p0141 code - "o2 heater circuit malfunction on bank 1 keeps kicking on.
The Wires and connections to the o2 sensor are good. The motor before the rebuild did not have any check lights coming on, so I know it didn't have problems. Somehow, in lieu of the reassembly, the o2 sensor is acting up... why?.. Could there be an issue with the motor getting more, better combustion, which is making the motor run hotter, quicker?
keep in mind I left the original ex.manifold on the block.

Maybe it's getting too hot?

So, is it just the o2 sensor I should start by swapping out? or something else?

Best answer I've gotten is that code stands for a circuit that's inside the actual o2 sensor/housing, thus if it's "malfunctioning" it's essentially a bad sensor.
So pull it, and chalk it off as a sensor giving out early? (the car had 80k miles on it)

I would appreciate any feedback!

_________________
95' geo metro (auto), with 98' 16v motor, with a more a aggressive cam, 45mm throttle body, 1.6 L exhaust man. and 2" exhaust.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 10:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:10 am
Posts: 22
Location: the holy city of hopewell junction
02 sensors are very delicate
a drop of 6" to concrete will break the sensing thimble and render them deader than dog poop
it is common for 02 sensors to not survive surgery and suggested that they be removed and stored while performing surgery to prevent this from happening
===================================
the 02 sensor has 4 wires
the two white wires are the heater
black is signal
grey is ground

so connect a DVOM meter to the white pins , engine running , use T pins up into the weatherpac of the connector
DO NOT puncture the wires

see the T pins thread in the how to section of the geo metro forum if needed

should be 12 volts , may be 12 volts negative depending on how the meter test leads are connected

if yes
the 02 sensor is bad

if no
find out why not
and if are you missing 12v positive or ground ?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 2:48 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 12:10 pm
Posts: 9
Location: denver, colorado
Oh no, now that you've said that about the sensitivity of the sensor itself, I think it may have been damaged when the motor was being removed out of the car, and it was sitting on it's oil pan, propped against something..... it fell forward over on it's exhaust manifold side, and just that bit of impact from hitting the concrete probably hit and shook the iron ex.manifold -and that's what may have caused the problem.. :cry:

So I have an older on from a 95' 4cyl - would that work? it's got a green four prong plug too.. I'll have to see if they're the same. if not, guess I'm gonna have to get one off ebay. :?:

_________________
95' geo metro (auto), with 98' 16v motor, with a more a aggressive cam, 45mm throttle body, 1.6 L exhaust man. and 2" exhaust.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:15 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:14 am
Posts: 1897
Location: Prince George B.C. Canada
As long as it has the right number of wires, it should work. Told to me by the manager of my local parts place (a buddy of mine, also over 35 years experience).

Ralph.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:36 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:35 pm
Posts: 2433
Location: Regina, SK
Before sticking the old one back into service, buy some Simple Green Industrial or Max(the auto stuff), and put the O2 sensor in a appropriately sized container, and pour in the Simple Green. It'll take about 3 days but just move the sensor around in the cleaner once or twice a day, and watch all the carbon pour/fall out.

I took a 180,000km Bosch Sensor that would no longer read, to putting it back in service as a back up for a truly dead O2 sensor, it was the primary, and it's sitting doing the job of the secondary right now, on a New Beetle.

Also the heating circuit works via resistance the same as any heating element, that is how the ECU knows if the element is blown or not. If the heating element goes, the sensor is pooched.

94.5 to 2001, all used the same 4-wire O2 sensor, if you have a 4 cylinder the cable is longer than a 3 cylinder for the primary, but I believe the secondary ones are basically the same.

_________________
My cars:

J. McBean: '98 Suzuki Swift 1.3L 16v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk5" Made in Canada
The Mini Rattler: '94 Suzuki Swift .993L 6v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk3" Made in Canada *The Winter Beater*
B. Berry: '90 Chevrolet Turbo Sprint 1.0L 6v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk2" Made in Japan

I got 18MPG in a 3cyl with a 5 speed manual 4dr, '93 Metro! :yeahyeah


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 5:40 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 6:23 am
Posts: 1745
Location: Washington, DC
Better look into that "lifter noise" as there are no lifters in that engine. Probably just the manual valve adjustment is a bit loose.

_________________
91 Pontiac Firefly Turbo
10 Suzuki Kizashi


Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms
Should be the name of a convenience store, not a government agency


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 12:10 pm
Posts: 9
Location: denver, colorado
"Before sticking the old one back into service, buy some Simple Green Industrial or Max(the auto stuff), and put the O2 sensor in a appropriately sized container, and pour in the Simple Green. It'll take about 3 days but just move the sensor around in the cleaner once or twice a day, and watch all the carbon pour/fall out.

I took a 180,000km Bosch Sensor that would no longer read, to putting it back in service as a back up for a truly dead O2 sensor, it was the primary, and it's sitting doing the job of the secondary right now, on a New Beetle.

Also the heating circuit works via resistance the same as any heating element, that is how the ECU knows if the element is blown or not. If the heating element goes, the sensor is pooched"
.


So you're telling me that if there's too much carbon buildup on the O2 sensor that it could has it to have a p0141 o2 heater circuit malfunction kicking back at it? I better check into doing a simple green dip.

The two vehicles that these came out of both did not have a check engine light coming on before their teardowns.... Thus I beleive that they were good to begin with. As for the the transplant and the rebuild of the motor, everything was put together exactly as-is/as-was. The wires, harness, all in good condition and everything appears fine - no kinks,shorts, corroded wires, or anything.

I'm just baffled that two o2 sensors could go bad during the course of pulling them from their old cars. I'm led to beleive that I mishandled them by having left them in their exhaust manifolds and probably tossed them a little too hard when moving them around on the garage floor. *Ugh* I hope this is the case!
:cry:

_________________
95' geo metro (auto), with 98' 16v motor, with a more a aggressive cam, 45mm throttle body, 1.6 L exhaust man. and 2" exhaust.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group