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 Post subject: Hesitation Problem
PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:48 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:08 pm
Posts: 623
Location: Surprise, Az, USA
Hey guys. It's been at least a year since I've been here. It's certainly nice to see the board still running. Ok here's the issue...

I rebuilt my head, installed new rings, etc. Previously my intake was full of oil but I had it cleaned or I cleaned everything when I assembled the engine. I believe the engine is mechanically in good condition now because it's not over heating and there's no smoke. I have new plugs and wires, new cat and front O2 Sensor.

My car hesitates and I'm not sure where to look. It idles perfect. Starts fine. It seems to have a severe lack of power at lower RPM. Then the it does better as the RPMs increase but it hesitates when when I accelerate. I checked my timming and the timming marks seem to move slightly a few degrees back and forth when I look at it with a timming light. Is that normal for the computer? I don't remember my older cars doing this.

Possible problems:
Bad timing belt installation
Bad plug/wires
Bad emissions or throttle body. (No EGR on this model)

I'm currently getting about 39MPG.
2000 Metro 16V, Single Cam

Any help would be appreciated! Thanks guys!

Darrell

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 Post subject: Re: Hesitation Problem
PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 11:15 am 
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Location: Victoria BC
Hi, first make sure your cam timing is right, most likely the cause.

It it isn't cam timing...

Are you getting auto ign timing advance?

Crank pos sensor?

Did you check for codes?

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 Post subject: Re: Hesitation Problem
PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:45 pm 
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Location: Surprise, Az, USA
Funny Story... My car passed emissions then the "check engine" light came on as I was leaving. Anyway it said that the #1 cylinder was not firing properly. I cleared the code and the light never came back but the car still hesitates. I'm not sure what caused the light to come on but it could be a number of things... just like my hesitation problem.

I'm not getting any misfires or backfiring.

I'll double check the timing belt and timing marks. I think I read that E is better than I, on the cam.

I was leaning towards fuel ratio/emissions problems but I'll let ya know what I find. Thank you much.

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 Post subject: Re: Hesitation Problem
PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:33 pm 
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Location: Ashtabula, Ohio
Sometimes the crank bolt gets loose and the crank gear that the timing belts runs on works loose and damages the key and/or keyway.

One more thing is any Metro with a crank sensor should not have an oil pan gasket installed. RTV is all that should be used since aftermarket oil pan gaskets are too thick for the sensor to read properly.

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 Post subject: Re: Hesitation Problem
PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:05 pm 
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Location: Surprise, Az, USA
Thanks Johnny.

My Sprint had that crankshaft problem and that led to a complete rebuild years ago. That is always a possibility with this car too. However I couldn't get the crank bolt off. I took the pulley off during the rebuild but the bolt always stayed on... the pulley comes off with four smaller bolts.

I only have RTV on the oil pan. These are all good suggestions though and I'm not sure I would have checked that.

I have a friend at work that has a diagnostic tool. He said he can check all the sensors with his tool. I'm not sure how it works but I'll give it a shot.

Thanks again guys!

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If we did the things we are capable of, we would astound ourselves. ~Thomas Edison

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 Post subject: Re: Hesitation Problem
PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 12:25 am 
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Location: Surprise, Az, USA
I was talking to a coworker about the issue. He asked me if it ran the same when it was cold. To my surprise, it does not hesitate when it's cold.

He said that cars have an "Open Loop" when the engine cold and the computer uses default or fixed values for the sensors. Once the engine warms up, the sensors kick in and it runs in a "closed loop." Mine hesitates in a closed loop.

I havevn't found anything yet but I'll ya know when I do!

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 Post subject: Re: Hesitation Problem
PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 1:00 am 
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Location: Victoria BC
If it is running in close loop I would think it should have a fault causing it. The fault code should be stored in the computer.

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 Post subject: Re: Hesitation Problem
PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:04 am 
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No codes stored. :( Once it told me that the #1 cylinder had an issue (I mentioned it ealier) but it wasn't specific enough for me to fix anything.

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 Post subject: Re: Hesitation Problem
PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:57 am 
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Location: Victoria BC
It really sounds like valve or ign timing make pos for sure it is not.
Once I replaced my timing belt and after I put the new one on I had no power.
After checking everything it turned out the old belt was out one tooth.
I found my ign timing was 9* retarded from stock.
I reset my ign timing and....vera nice, i like.

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 Post subject: Re: Hesitation Problem
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:47 am 
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Thanks burner. I won't have time to work on it anytime soon. I'm in the ER right now with my son and my dad is coming to visit this afternoon, (not related to the ER visit) for the week. We'll see how it goes. On the other hand my dad might help me with it. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Hesitation Problem
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:31 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:26 pm
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Location: California
Had the same issue with my 2000 metro. Got the misfire in #1 cylinder. Turned out to be the O2 sensor (one after catalytic convertor) was going bad. Replaced it and have never had an issue since.


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 Post subject: Re: Hesitation Problem
PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 4:06 am 
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Location: Surprise, Az, USA
Both of my O2 sensors are new. :( No Change when I replaced them.
I need to take another look at my timming belt. Well I guess I need the time first. Thanks Nickb

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 Post subject: Re: Hesitation Problem
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:10 pm 
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Location: Victoria BC
I'm not familiar with the newer ones mine are 90 n 94, but...

Maybe your comp is "searching" for a signal and it cannot settle on a steady advance point without it. :?:

How much does your timing wander? One degree? or more?
Does it wander with only base timing (advace unhooked)?
Is it getting full advance? The difference should be 10ish degrees at idle with very little wander, maybe one degree?

I have no specs, just gestimating :)

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 Post subject: Re: Hesitation Problem
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:33 am 
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Location: Surprise, Az, USA
I found the problem.

Here's the latest... I finally got around to checking my timing belt and sure enough it was off by one tooth on the cam pulley. Also I think my belt could be a little tighter but the adjustment is maxed out. It's not very lose but I would make it tighter if I had the choice. Could the belt be too big?

Anyway the hesitation is gone and I'm happy with the way the car drives now. Now my timing light seems to be busted so I can't give anymore details.

Thanks guys for all the help. I'll be sure to put it on right next time. :) DOH! It only took 2 hours to fix though.

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If we did the things we are capable of, we would astound ourselves. ~Thomas Edison

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 Post subject: Re: Hesitation Problem
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:49 am 
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Location: Regina, SK
:lol:

Make the belt too tight, and the belt will grenade.


The adjuster is spring tensioned, loosen the bolt going through the tensioner and the bolt that holds the plate, release all tension on the belt. Roll engine over two complete rotations going clockwise, then tighten the bolt holding the plate then the bolt through the tensioner pulley.

I've over tightened the timing belt once, and I learned my lesson the hard way... :lol:

You may have already stretched the belt as well which when warmed up could cause the timing to shift, as the belt fibres will have been weakened.

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