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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:49 pm 
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hi, ive heard of this website long time ago since i owned a '96 suzuki swift 5 years ago but never really actually register, i've seen awesome mods on their swifts/metro/firefly, (and i envy them -- you know who you are :-) ) tho i would want to go that far if money is not a problem but right now budget is tight and would only use my swift as my DD beat up car :).

anyway, i used to get 35 mpg highway and 28 city average but now since i have exhaust issues it went down to 15 - 12 mpg and would not permit me from accelerating more than 25 otherwise i would hear a "hissing" sound and "lots" of loss of power, then i would pull over and turn off the car then turn in on again then everythings seems fine but once i press the gas really hard from a stop then there goes the hissing sound again then lots of hesitation. i thought it was the transmission acting up but sometimes i could go as much as 55-60 without problem, i've checked the vaccum lines too with the "spray soap technique" -- no leak issues. this car is a 1996 suzuki swift 1.3L 3 spd auto with maintained oil change(used mobil 1 high mileage systec oil) trans oil/filter change just last year; tune up just last year(drives about 6K miles/ year).
This has been happening on and off for about 6 months with a catalytic converter code from an OBD2 scanner. then 2 months ago i temporary repaired the exhaust pipe by cutting the rusted pipe with holes right on the flange bet catalytic and muffler joined it with a flexpipe, never actually replaced the converter. it seemed to fix the loss of power/hissing/hesitation on gearing up problem. but about couple weeks ago i had the same problem almost every day now that limits me driving this car to 25-35 mph. i leaning towards a collapsed catalytic converter. so im about to buy the whole exhaust system off rockauto.com

now, my question is this: is there anyway i could use a 2" diameter exhaust system versus of that stock 1.5" stock for the price of rackauto's "borsal complete exhaust system-- $275, and just spend about the same? pls note that i dont have any access on welds. pls help me decide. i'm gonna need to see some suggestions and resources to where i could shop around if i go with 2" pipe rather on 1.5" stock. local shop would end up more expensive because of "custom welds and what not., so basically i will be relying on online store or something. My budget is tight but i would max it to $350 with muffler+catalytic converter running on 2" pipes with bolts/hangers/gaskets included.

i apologized for a very long and boring story on my suzuki problem. but hey. go teamswift !!!
thanks all!!!


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:39 am 
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It sounds like your cat is plugged. The hissing your hearing is the exhaust trying to find its way out where ever it can. This means squeezing past the gaskets and forcing its way through the cat. It may also be the muffler as well. I'd just replace it with a stock bolt together from somewhere like NAPA. You should be able to do the whole thing for around what your budget is.


Last edited by top down@-40 on Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:49 am 
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thanks top_down, that is actually my plan. rockauto is way cheaper than any B&M parts store even with a shipping charges. but if it's possible to spend that ~$300~ for 2" exhaust pipes+muffler+cat then i would replace the 1.5" exhaust system on my 96 swift.

thanks again.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:03 pm 
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I don't think you'll find a 2" bolt on replacement. You'll probably need to have it welded.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:06 pm 
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Local muff shop only charged me $200 to bend a complete 2" from front to rear. I provided mufflers sourced from Summit. I'm a huge fan of the Walker SuperTurbo 17777, no restriction up to 82 HP, great mellow sound, fits in stock location. Uncorking the 1.0 made a major difference in the SOTP dyno. I'd shoot myself before wasting 3 bills on 1.5" stock stuff.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:32 pm 
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Agreed.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:54 pm 
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I would agree that a 2" exhaust will deliver better performance. The only reason I suggest stock is because it's a bolt together that anyone can do and if something needs to be replaced in the future, all you need to do is buy the defective piece and replace it. When you go to an exhaust shop, most times they tell you everything needs to be replaced when you only need one part. Then they weld everything together, so if you need to replace something in two years, you need to take it back to them or crawl under the car with a hacksaw and fight to cut the pipe (because not everyone has a grinder or welder at their disposal and if they do it's still a pain in the butt). Now your pipe is too short to put the new piece on and you need to make a trip to the parts store to buy an extension piece, hopefully you have another vehicle at your disposal. The biggest mistake most people make when putting on bolt together exhaust is over tightening the U bolt clamps, which crushes the pipe, making it nearly impossible to pull the two pieces apart.

"But the exhaust shop gave me a good deal on the system with a lifetime muffler warranty." The only difference between a regular muffler and one with a lifetime warranty is the price. You pay a little more for the lifetime muffler but it will only last as long as the non lifetime one. That warranty does not include installation or any other piece of the exhaust, so when you need a new one they give you the muffler (because you already paid for it with the initial purchase price), then they charge for installation and replacement of any other piping required. They are banking on the fact that most people get rid of the car before it needs a third replacement. These words directly from an exhaust shop owner.

There is only one exhaust shop I trust to be honest with me and that's because it's owned by one of my best friends brothers. Half the time I didn't pay a dime for the work he did and the rest of the time I only payed for parts. Unfortunately I now live 500 miles from him, so I don't get to use his shop anymore.

Sorry for being long winded but hopefully other people reading this thread will take this into account for their own needs and choose what's right for them.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:17 pm 
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thanks for all the input but im leaning towards a 2" pipe if im going to spend 3 bills on this car, then if i have more money then i might be following your footsteps on swiffin up my swift :-). i got to fix this first then i'll mod up the suspension then brake.

i'll try another muff shop maybe i can get close to your pricing there in cali 87octane. would you have the dimension measurements on your custom exhaust pipe, i might get it a little cheaper if i know what im talking about in front on the welder on muff shop. i guess your 95 geo will have the same dimension/angles i need for my exhaust......

again, thanks all........and keep suggestions coming pls... :-)

im wondering how much the inlet diameter on the tip of the exhaust manifold on US '96 suziki swift? anyone?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:38 pm 
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hey guys, i got no one to ask right now, bored working.....

anyway, if i use a 2" Walker Lap-Joint Band Clamps in between pipes/catalytic/muffler and for angles, i use a 2 inch 90 degree joint heater hoses? i know its a crazy idea but would it last somehow till i save some money and get to it in the next 4 months and ill buy a 4-1 suzukird header.

thanks all..... gtg to work again :-)


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:46 pm 
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I've needed to use those band clamps before and they will last, the gasket material is the weakest part of them. As for the heater hose, that's a maybe but you could just buy a length of exhaust pipe that has 2 90* bends, cut them out and use a couple more clamps to hold it together. I see no reason why that wouldn't last until a full exhaust upgrade.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:15 pm 
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http://www.vito03.com/en/exhausts/3444

this is not the north american mk5 -- 96 swift 1.3L 8 v 3 spd auto exhaust diagram right? if it is then this is gonna be a big challenge for me. it seemed there's only 3 90 degrees bend on the system (1. from manifold to cat; 2. 2 90 degrees to pass through the bottom of the fuel tank) and some mild angles just to clear up the muff and cut from touching the base of the car. i'm not sure tho. whew, i dont know man, im screwed now, lol

i've checked this website, and i think its pretty cheap for my stainless needs:

http://www.stainlessworks.net/cart/index.php?cPath=95_109_373

any inouts again is highly appreciated.... thanks all :-)


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:17 pm 
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It's three pieces. These fit all 1.0 and 1.3 (except GT and turbo) from 89 and up to at least 98 from what I've been told. Have you thought about picking up a used system from a pick and pull until you can afford the 2" system you want.


Attachment:
Exhaust with cat.jpg

Attachment:
Exhaust resonator.jpg

Attachment:
Exhaust muffler.jpg


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:09 am 
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i thought of that already but most junkyard here is no pick and pull system, they have their own personnel to take the part apart so you have to pay for the part+"labor"+tip :-) = $75 - 100 (and i wouldnt know if the cat or muff is collapsed as well).
i might as well buy a mild steel/allum straight pipe for under $50, then buy a decent universal muff and cat....

the only problem im seeing is the O2 bung...... i dont know how to approach that yet.. and secondly, how much angle of the pipe is that right off the O2 bung on the first pic?

thanks a lot top_down


Last edited by ponzy on Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:10 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:51 am 
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what do you guys think of this cat with O2 bung but unknown brand/store(at least to me):

http://www.rpmoutlet.com/powercat.htm

or this one w/o O2 bung but more known brand/store:

http://www.jegs.com/i/Pace-Setter/766/80-0014/10002/-1?parentProductId=986233


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 3:57 pm 
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This is a 96 engine I have sitting in my shop. O2 sensor is in the manifold. I would take a closer look at what you have under your car before committing to anything. I do have a complete used exhaust sitting here but I think shipping so far would make it too expensive. Put a want ad in the parts wanted section and see if anyone closer to you has one they would give (sell) you.
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Camera batch 001 038.jpg


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:16 pm 
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top down@-40 wrote:
This is a 96 engine I have sitting in my shop. O2 sensor is in the manifold. I would take a closer look at what you have under your car before committing to anything. I do have a complete used exhaust sitting here but I think shipping so far would make it too expensive. Put a want ad in the parts wanted section and see if anyone closer to you has one they would give (sell) you.


will look into it as the weather permits..... cant actually wait to draw up a visual layout of my exhaust..... and im gonna try to ask around...thanks


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:54 pm 
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reading this thread hurts my brain. let me answer it all for you in one post.


lost of power/hissing is due to the cat being broken up. its intermittent because it is broken so whenever you give it throttle the piece that is dislodged moves and blocks the outlet of the cat. you need a new cat and most likely a muffler at a minimum. you are on the right track with replacing everything.


i would recommend an OBD2 certified cat or you will continue to throw a P0420 after a little while. even certified aftermarket cats dont tend to last very long. they just dont have the amount of material that the OEM cats have. you also wont be able to buy a cat from a junkyard. its illegal to sell used cats to anyone other than a scrapper.


yes there is an O2 on the manifold....but there is ALSO an O2 on the exhaust pipe after the cat. this will need to be reinstalled (either in a bung on the cat outlet or have a bung welded into the pipe) to keep the ECU happy.


now that said....unless you have welding and good tube fabrication skills (have you built an exhaust before? its harder than it looks :) ) i would strongly reccopmend buying the pre-bent pieces.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:27 pm 
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VR4 wrote:
yes there is an O2 on the manifold....but there is ALSO an O2 on the exhaust pipe after the cat. this will need to be reinstalled (either in a bung on the cat outlet or have a bung welded into the pipe) to keep the ECU happy.

Not on my '96. Only the one on the manifold. Doesn't even have wires for one at the cat.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:02 pm 
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95-96 is OBD1, no secondary O2 downstream of the cat.
97->later is OBD2, mandatory secondary O2 downstream of the cat, and 4 wire preheat as well.
Don't know what month in 96 the cutover occurred, I assume very late in the year.

Don't worry about bends and angles. Any good muffler guy with 2" tubing in hand will eyeball the bottom of the car, hit the tubing with the hydraulic bender, test fit, and if it isn't perfect on the first try, then you're at the wrong muffler shop. If the hired help drives hotrods or 4x4's, you should be fine. If the hired help doesn't speak American English, you're on your own.

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95 Metro hatch "Tequila lime" all stock
F/S 3Tech economy cam
F/S 90 Metro hatch
F/S 89 Swift GTi body only
F/S 92 Tracker 2 dr rwd stock
93 Sidekick 4 dr 1.9 vw TD, WVO conversion, 6" lift over 33's


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 12:40 am 
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my 96 is an OBD2 compliant.. and has a pre(manifold) and post cat O2 sensors......

im just wondering how much does the suzukird 8V headers extends when its mounted on the engine>?

thanks for all the replies... i havent been driving the swift for a while, its been too cold out here and gone lazy to at least look on the exhaust...


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:26 am 
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87octane wrote:
95-96 is OBD1, no secondary O2 downstream of the cat.
97->later is OBD2, mandatory secondary O2 downstream of the cat, and 4 wire preheat as well.
Don't know what month in 96 the cutover occurred, I assume very late in the year.

Don't worry about bends and angles. Any good muffler guy with 2" tubing in hand will eyeball the bottom of the car, hit the tubing with the hydraulic bender, test fit, and if it isn't perfect on the first try, then you're at the wrong muffler shop. If the hired help drives hotrods or 4x4's, you should be fine. If the hired help doesn't speak American English, you're on your own.


federal law states OBD2 compliance beginning in MY 96.

my 96 also has a downstream o2 sensor ;)

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98 swift 1.6 16v swap
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97 3000gt vr4 e85, high comp, bolt ons
too many others to list


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:42 pm 
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Maybe the difference is mine's a Canadian model (Firefly) but I know for a fact there is no wiring for the second O2 sensor on mine.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 4:41 pm 
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here's some of the exhaust pics:

Image

Image

Image


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 5:41 pm 
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Image

Image

the further i inspect my swift, the more i realize its gonna be more money to put on this car......what to do.....?
how much is the ballmark expense if you rebuild the engine? my dream exhaust for my swift will cost me roughly $700(suzukird headers+stainless pipe+high flow SS cat+SS muff. my wifey approved the $700 fund for the exhaust but i dont want to spend that much if i will be rebuilding the engine as well. pls reply so i'll know how many lapdances i'll do to get the engine rebuld fund :-)


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 5:46 pm 
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Tommy, are you out there?

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