TeamSwift

Home of the Suzuki mini-compacts ! Your Home for all things Suzuki Swift, Geo Metro, Holden Barina, Chevy Sprint, Pontiac Firefly, and Suzuki Cultus. TeamSwift is a technical performance oriented community!
It is currently Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:24 pm

Underbody braces, turbos and more!

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 8:48 pm 
Offline
Suzuki Elder
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:47 pm
Posts: 11675
Location: columbus, ohio
i'm hoping that you t3 gurus can give me some insight into where i should start to track down a problem.

the engine starts and runs for 15 to 30 seconds at about 2500 rpm, then acts like it runs out of fuel and dies. if i feather the throttle, i can get the engine to keep from stalling out and the revs bounce back up to 2500 rpm, then fall, and the engine will die if i don't open the throttle again. the engine will start up and run pretty strong initially. when i start to feather the throttle, it misses and spits and generally runs like crap.

i pulled the cap off of the MAF so that i could see what it does and the rheostat wiper moves to different points depending on throttle angle and air flow. there is a pointy actuator that looks like it should open some contacts, but the end is bent so that even with the flap closed all the way, it doesn't touch the contacts.

i though that it might be related to low fuel pressure so i swapped the NA fuel pump out with a new turbo pump which really didn't change the condition much. is this a TPS induced condition? and MAF induced condition? crappy fuel injectors? ECU?

i'm baffled and have no manual for troubleshooting. please help.

_________________
1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2004 11:36 pm 
Offline
Suzuki Elder
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:47 pm
Posts: 11675
Location: columbus, ohio
CJDave, jardamuth, suprfly - calling all turbo3 wizards! :worship:

HELP! :thwack:

_________________
1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:46 pm 
Offline
Suzuki Elder
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:47 pm
Posts: 11675
Location: columbus, ohio
update.....

i checked and re-checked:

the fuel pump for delivery and pressure - ok.

ignition for spark - ok.

maf for operation - ok.

engine bay harness connectors and various sending units, including water temps. valve controls, TPS -ok.

i listened to the injectors with a really long screwdriver in place of a stethescope and they stop firing after 30 seconds like clockwork. something is telling the ecu to cut fuel, hard to believe because the engine only just fires up with the fuel enrichment injector banging away. as soon as the cold start enrichment ceases the main injectors quit, too.

i've studied the supplement and it gives a set of things to look at but they all seem to be ok, too. the finger is pointing at the ecu not being a happy 8 bit camper.

any thoughts from great minds? :lol:

_________________
1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:41 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:17 pm
Posts: 3566
Location: Georgetown, Guyana
I came across a post somewhere about a problem similar to this - I think the guy said he forgot to ground the main fuel injector return and everytime the cold start injector was switched out, all the injectors would shut down.

I have no idea what I'm talking about here, just repeating what I read - hope it helps


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 12:13 pm 
Offline
Suzuki Elder
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:47 pm
Posts: 11675
Location: columbus, ohio
thanks fordem

that's what i thought, too, so i checked that. the injector ground wire is securely fastened to the intake manifold.

in reading the turbo3 supplement i've found that there is a provision for fuel cut when the ecu isn't happy about something, however, it isn't clear what would piss it off that bad.

thanks for taking the time to consider my problem and responding.

_________________
1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:11 pm 
Offline
a.k.a Bum head
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 31, 2004 5:29 pm
Posts: 3157
Location: London, ON
t3 ragtop wrote:
in reading the turbo3 supplement i've found that there is a provision for fuel cut when the ecu isn't happy about something, however, it isn't clear what would piss it off that bad.


I'm still gonna point to the MAF. That's about the only thing that you just can't check with reference to what it's supposed to do... any codes stored at all?

I feel for ya... I had my conversion sitting in the garage for about 3 months until I finally got it to fire up. I don't wish that on anyone.


Chris

_________________
Good stuff for sale!

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=42901&start=0


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:20 pm 
Offline
a.k.a Bum head
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 31, 2004 5:29 pm
Posts: 3157
Location: London, ON
Also... do I remember you telling me about using a different dizzy than what's stock? I seem to recall something about vacuum advance... which there shouldn't be at all. There's only the distributor pick up sensor, and that should be it attached/coming out of/going into the Mk2 T3 dizzy (besides the spark plug wires).


Chris

_________________
Good stuff for sale!

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=42901&start=0


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:48 pm 
Offline
Suzuki Elder
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:47 pm
Posts: 11675
Location: columbus, ohio
nope, no stored codes in the ecu. it winks a happy 12. the distributor is the non-vacuum advance unit that was standard after 92 and is the same as the turbo engine unit (2 wires to give the ecu the crank position.)

it wants to run. :lol:

_________________
1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:36 pm 
Offline
Former TeamSwift Admin
Former TeamSwift Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2002 9:58 am
Posts: 8146
Location: Seattle, WA
there's no difference in the pin-out @ the ecu for the injector harness or something eh ? even with a dead maf it should still idle in limp mode if it's anything like the gt

_________________
'92 Swift GT, '94 Swift GT, '88 Turbo Sprint, '98 Swift ... all sold years ago


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:16 pm 
Offline
a.k.a Bum head
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 31, 2004 5:29 pm
Posts: 3157
Location: London, ON
n1tr0 wrote:
even with a dead maf it should still idle in limp mode if it's anything like the gt


I tried that when I was having problems with my swap, I would get an overboost code when the wrong MAF was plugged in, and the car wouldn't even run without it plugged in. No limp mode... :?


Chris

_________________
Good stuff for sale!

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=42901&start=0


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 4:03 am 
Offline
Suzuki Elder
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:47 pm
Posts: 11675
Location: columbus, ohio
chris,

when you got the overboost code, did you get a fuel cut that caused the car to quit? that's one of the conditions that the supplement shows as a "no start" or fuel cut condition. i remember that you said that you didn't know that you had the wrong MAF on your car because they look the same. the wiring splice of the mk2 to the mk3 means that the nifty little diagnostic switch on the mk2 isn't there and i have to plug a fuse into the fuse block "test" position to get the check engine light to wink (but it does.)


the parts car i got my parts from might have been junked for the very reason i'm snatching myself bald right now. the previous owner may have used the wrong MAF, the ecu could have been toasted, etc, which caused the car to be junked in the first place.

i'm very disheartened.

_________________
1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 4:41 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2004 11:26 pm
Posts: 115
Location: Wisconsin
I would say, as youve predicted, that the ecu is at fault. Id offer mine, to swap and check, but its mk1. Sorry I couldnt be of more help.

Nick


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:16 pm 
Offline
a.k.a Bum head
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 31, 2004 5:29 pm
Posts: 3157
Location: London, ON
t3 ragtop wrote:
chris,

when you got the overboost code, did you get a fuel cut that caused the car to quit? that's one of the conditions that the supplement shows as a "no start" or fuel cut condition. i remember that you said that you didn't know that you had the wrong MAF on your car because they look the same.


The car would run, but be waaaaay rich, blowing black smoke, making the exhaust manifold glow red/white and spooling up the turbo from the heat of the ignition of unburnt gas, until it warmed up (and got off the open-loop mode). Then it would shut down until it cooled down again. It would run for about 5 mins. since it was about -10C when I'd finished the transplant. I bet your car wouldn't run as long, since it's warmer now.

Quote:
i'm very disheartened.


Don't lose hope... really. I'm pretty sure that your ECU is fine, there's just something pissing it off. I'm willing to bet my MAF that it's your MAF that's messing things up. Getting an Mk2 MAF is about as easy as finding hen's teeth... I'll have to check through my old e-mails to see where I sourced mine from last summer, since I think they may have one still. Might even have been Jard... I'll get back to you on this.

Hold on there!


Chris

_________________
Good stuff for sale!

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=42901&start=0


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:58 pm 
Offline
Former TeamSwift Admin
Former TeamSwift Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2002 9:58 am
Posts: 8146
Location: Seattle, WA
found a few wreckers in canada w/ turbo firefly/sprint engines that might have the maf ...
1-800-528-1483 - http://trade2883.car-part.com/
1-800-463-5158 - http://www.pintendre.com/

_________________
'92 Swift GT, '94 Swift GT, '88 Turbo Sprint, '98 Swift ... all sold years ago


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 4:34 pm 
Offline
Mama Said Knock You Out!
Mama Said Knock You Out!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2002 9:22 am
Posts: 5003
Location: MI
My 94' Concorde did the exact same thing. But it would only run for 5 seconds, and it would shut off the fuel. It ended up being a bad injector resistor. I dunno if the T3 uses an injector resistor though.

_________________
TGstring wrote:
sooooo clean it's duuuuurrty.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:18 pm 
Offline
a.k.a Bum head
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 31, 2004 5:29 pm
Posts: 3157
Location: London, ON
GeoZukiGTi wrote:
My 94' Concorde did the exact same thing. But it would only run for 5 seconds, and it would shut off the fuel. It ended up being a bad injector resistor. I dunno if the T3 uses an injector resistor though.


Nope. No resistor to be found (unless it's in the ECU).

Chris

_________________
Good stuff for sale!

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=42901&start=0


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:23 pm 
Offline
a.k.a Bum head
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 31, 2004 5:29 pm
Posts: 3157
Location: London, ON
And indeed it was Jard (Jess) that found my MAF back in May 2003. Perhaps he's been trolling this thread and wouldn't mind letting you know if he has any other MAFs floating around, even after almost a year and a half.


Chris

_________________
Good stuff for sale!

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=42901&start=0


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group