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 Post subject: My T3 project
PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2010 6:37 am 
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Location: Palmdale, Ca
Okay well me and my dad have been working on my Sprint and we've got a little bit done so I thought I'd share. I just want to say that my dads been a mechanic for over 40 years and if it wasn't for him I wouldn't be a car guy for one but I wouldn't have my Sprint. He has taught me so much and has done so much work to my car and never asked for anything except for me to help him. And I know he doesn’t like working on it. He’d rather me have an old sbc or bbc car. His best friend actually gave me this car about 11 years ago when I was 12 years old but even if I still got this car I would have never been able to keep it. I've never had any major problems with this car besides 20 year old parts that needed to be replaced anyways failing but the cost of having to pay someone labor to fix all the little stuff would've been too much to justify keeping the car. And I love this car. I will never get rid of it, it's my favorite car. I'm also doing most of the work this time around so it's a big project for me. Well I just wanted to say that, now I'll get on to the good stuff.

I got the block back from the machine shop. I had it bored another .020 over so it's .040 over now and balanced. I had Ross Racing Pistons make a set of forged .040 over pistons. They made my .020 over set too and I'm pretty sure if I didn't have the forged pistons I would've been looking for a new block this time around. I had the flywheel lightened a pound and a half. I had the head bolt threads opened up and tapped to use ARP sbc 2 bolt main studs for head studs. They fit the holes in the head like a glove, it doesn't budge. The corners of the head have to be touched up on the inside just a little for the washers to sit flush.
image_id: 18757
image_id: 18758

I got a little side tracked lately working on the rear disk brake conversion. I bought a front and rear disk setup from a ’94 Swift GT about two and a half years ago and I figured it’s about time I get them on the car. I used the stock drums and had them machined to be the hubs. Then I used 3/8" steel plate, with a hole in the middle for the hub to fit through, to bolt on the rear end for the caliper bracket to bolt on to. We were going to use counter sunk bolts for that but it doesn’t look like there’s enough meat left on the plate so we’ll probably bolt it on and weld it around the edge just to be safe. Looks like I'm going to have to have the wheels machined about 3/8" to get the right offset. They were sticking out a little before too. I’ll use my stock parking brake cable and have the GT end put on it. I used a set of front brake hose and the length works out just right. The brakes are not bolted down all the way, I just wanted to get some pics. I put the later vented disks before and it made a huge difference but I will be upgrading to the GT front disks and calipers now. I’ll have 3mm machined off the rotors so they fit. Do you still have to do that if you have the GT caliper brackets though? I have to find those and I’ll see but just wondering if anyone knows. Should look awesome and stop really nice with the GT cross drilled and slotted rotors and ceramic pads all the way around.
image_id: 18759
image_id: 18760
image_id: 18762
image_id: 18763

This is the rear mocked up at about ride height with the lowering springs, maybe a half inch lower. 195/45/15's in front and 195/50/15's in back. I love these wheels but they are heavy.
image_id: 18761

I also have a Mk1 GTi front bumper with the fog lights that I’m putting on it. I really have a lot planned for this car but I’ll have to do it a little at a time for now. I want to be able to drive it by the end of the summer. I have a trip to Vegas planned for the end of the month so I'm saving some money for that right now but after I get back I want to get suprf1y to fix me up a nice head package. I wanted to go all out and megasquirt it but I really miss driving it and that would be a huge endeavor for me so I'll settle for getting it running as well as I can with the stock computer for now and collect everything I need to megasquirt it as I'm driving it. I'll have all the problems it was having fixed too. Like the old fuel pump, injectors, bad distributor, bad EGR valve, and some other small things. I'd rather break in the motor with the stock computer anyways. Don't want to risk hurting the motor with a bad tune before it's broken in. I plan on driving it really nice for a while to make sure everything is right before I start getting on it. Or at least until I can get rid of the stock electronics and get a good tune. I would like to have it megasquirted by the end of the year. I can't wait to drive it though. So what do you guys think?

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 Post subject: Re: My T3 project
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 7:52 pm 
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Found a place in the valley that can machine the wheels for the right offset for $35 a wheel. Thats if they don't need to weld up the lug holes but it looks like theres enough material there. Other wise they'll have to weld them up and probably discolor the chrome so I'll have to have them rechromed. Hopefully theres enough meat left. Going to order my crank scrappers and a few other lower cost items on monday. I had the front bumper media blasted because the paint was cooked on it and it was a major pain to sand off so I'll pick that up tomorrow. I'll probably paint it next week. I have a perfect dash board that I've been saving so I think I'll redye that at the same time. I'll probably pull all the other interior parts and do them all.

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 Post subject: Re: My T3 project
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 9:45 pm 
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cool. 8)

if you swapped to vert front knuckles to facilitate the mounting of the ventilated rotors, the gt caliper yokes should bolt right up and the only other mod would be to machine a little off the gt rotors. i peeled 3mm off the radius, 6mm on the diameter, and it worked out great.

i would think that the spec for rotor diameter would be held pretty close for all replacement rotors but i don't know that to be a fact. dtm gti posted that he took 2.5mm off the gt rotors when he swapped to big brakes on his mk1. i bolted a caliper onto my vert and pulled a measurement from the center of the axle stub to the caliper and found that 2.5mm off the radius would still have the rotor contacting the caliper frame on my application so i bumped it to 3mm off the rotor's radius. that worked out dandy.

are you going to use the backing plate/ rock shield on the rear brakes? i looked through your pics and noticed that they weren't there. i also saw what appeared to be allen head cap screws on the caliper mounting bracket for the rear. don't forget that you'll want a high shear strength on those bolts, like grade 10.9 metric or better. that's one place you wouldn't want to use a2 stainless. you want those bolts to be as hard as brick bats as they will bear the translated caliper clamping force. the torque from that will shred soft hardware.

one last thing. when you have the wheels machined to correct the offset, consider having them dynamically balanced. they might not end up being out too much and the machining will be mostly located close to the center of rotation, but still, you wouldn't want to end up using a lot of lead weights to achieve balance when you add the tires. i'd use a letter stamp on the back side of the wheel mounting face to indicate that they're for the rears, too.

nice work. good project. :D

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 Post subject: Re: My T3 project
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 10:25 pm 
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Are you using GT calipers too? I assume so but I don't think you said you were. Does the GT caliper bracket bolt to the vert hub? I was wondering if the GT bracket moves the caliper farther away from the center. The car is at my parents house but I'm driving up there tomorrow and I'll check. The disk brake setup I bought was pretty rusty. The backing plates were almost completely gone and wouldn't have done much good with giant holes in them. The allen bolts are just there for mock up. They were the only matching set of bolts that thread pitch that I could find in a hurry (I really wanted to see what it looked like with the wheels on it). Thanks for bring up the dynamic balancing, I forgot to ask them about that. I think they do that after they machine them but I will definatly ask them to if they don't. I'm also going to have them make a set of hub centric rings for me too. I will definatly have to have them marked because the fronts need to move in too and I don't think they will be the same. After I put the '97 metro brakes it pushed the wheels out and they were really close before. Thanks for checking out my project and thanks for the ideas. I can't wait to see your project finished!!

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 Post subject: Re: My T3 project
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 3:44 pm 
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1987TurboSprint wrote:
Are you using GT calipers too? I assume so but I don't think you said you were. Does the GT caliper bracket bolt to the vert hub? I was wondering if the GT bracket moves the caliper farther away from the center.!!

yes yes and yes. but not farther enough so you need to cut down the diameter of the GT rotor. other than that it's a perfect fit. don't know if 13" wheels fit with this brake setup tho. I want to try 13" wheels on GT brakes later this summer. I have a set of wheels that fits the rear disk setup. I think I can make the car handle better with large 13" race tires than with the 195/50R15 R compound I got on steelies. the steering is very heavy with these tires, and the small brakes aren't enough for me.

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 Post subject: Re: My T3 project
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 6:40 pm 
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now, the gt "brackets" that you are referring to mean the caliper yokes? in that case, they don't move the caliper away and that's why you end up shaving the rotors. the mounting holes for the caliper yokes on the vert knuckles are actually closer to the hub center than the holes are on the gt knuckles by a couple of millimeters. that's on the front.

i used the gt rear knuckles, caliper mounts, backing plates, calipers, hubs, rotors, and e-brake cables on the rear of the vert. the control arms are identical to the gt's. that means that all the geometry and dimensions were converted to those of the gt.

the braking balance is sort of wierd to me, though. the last time i used a gt brake proportioning valve with the gt swap. this time i don't have one and it might take a while to get used to the new response and feel. i may have to search for the gt prop valve or maybe even try to incorporate balancing valves in the rear lines if things get wierd.

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 Post subject: Re: My T3 project
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 12:16 am 
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Look in my album, I posted a break down of the GT vs non-GT 13" proportioning valve in there somewhere.

Running a non-GT valve on that car will allow the back brakes to lock up very quick.

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J. McBean: '98 Suzuki Swift 1.3L 16v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk5" Made in Canada
The Mini Rattler: '94 Suzuki Swift .993L 6v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk3" Made in Canada *The Winter Beater*
B. Berry: '90 Chevrolet Turbo Sprint 1.0L 6v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk2" Made in Japan

I got 18MPG in a 3cyl with a 5 speed manual 4dr, '93 Metro! :yeahyeah


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 Post subject: Re: My T3 project
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 10:18 am 
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Thanks for your input guys. A little progress.
image_id: 18769

The drivers side is all done. Just took a little shimming and grinding to get the caliper perfectly centered.
image_id: 18764

I dropped off the passenger side drum to have machined into the new hub. All painted and ready to go.
image_id: 18770

My dad came up with a fix for the e-brake cable. We were going to take it and have the cable shortened a little and put the GT end on it but he found another way. He used a GM column shift linkage adjuster and it seems to work just fine. We’ll just have to make a bracket to straighten out the cable.
image_id: 18765

I also dropped off the front GT rotors to have machined. I had the whole GT front disk setup, spindles and all, but it seems they got mixed in with a bunch of old parts my dad took to the metal scrappers a while ago. So I will be using the ‘97 metro, same as the vert I believe, calipers still. We’ll probably have to take off a little inside of the caliper bridge too. Should work just as well though. The brake pads I had before are actually a little bigger than the GT pads I have. Not much bigger about as thick as my finger nail.
image_id: 18766
image_id: 18771

I bought a new aftermarket grill off amazon a few years ago and I figured I might as well paint it with the front bumper and put it on. It wasn’t a turbo grill though so I had to cut out the spot for the intercooler opening.
image_id: 18767

With the GTi bumper I also got the rear spoiler. It’s just taped on right now. The GTi hatch has tabs for the spoiler to attach to, my hatch doesn’t so we’ll have to figure something out.
image_id: 18772

I’m going to drop off the wheels on Monday and have them take off as much as they can before they would need to weld up the lug holes. It looks like 3/8” should be fine and that’s about where the holes taper. I have a GT proportioning valve but I read that I wouldn’t need it because my stock wheel cylinder and the GT rear caliper are about the same volume. My dad also popped the top off the prop valve and it looks to be adjustable. Does that top bolt allow you to adjust the bias? Again, thanks for all the help guys!

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 Post subject: Re: My T3 project
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 10:53 am 
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partner, i really like your gt brake conversion. :D

you've done a nice job of it and the pride of ownership shows.

the best part of this, for me, is seeing teamswift members back to work with a new enthusiasm after a long dry spell. the pics and postings really do help to get the collective membership's blood flowing again. :wink:

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1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

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 Post subject: Re: My T3 project
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 11:09 am 
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t3 ragtop wrote:
partner, i really like your gt brake conversion. :D

you've done a nice job of it and the pride of ownership shows.

the best part of this, for me, is seeing teamswift members back to work with a new enthusiasm after a long dry spell. the pics and postings really do help to get the collective membership's blood flowing again. :wink:
Thanks!! I've seen the work you're doing and to have you say that fills me with even more pride. It does really seem to be coming along nicely. Makes me want to drive it now!! I really can't wait until I can drive it again. I've been on this site for a few years now and it feels good to share what I'm doing with my car with everyone. So again, thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: My T3 project
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 9:19 pm 
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gamefoo21 wrote:
Look in my album, I posted a break down of the GT vs non-GT 13" proportioning valve in there somewhere.

Running a non-GT valve on that car will allow the back brakes to lock up very quick.

Did you actually install such a valve with rear disc brakes? Can you please explain to me why there is almost no pressure going in the rear with the drum brake p-valve? Drums require a lot less pressure to operate. I litterally melted off a front pad set in 75 minutes of track use, but the rears are barely worn after 2 years... You say it should lock up easily?

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 Post subject: Re: My T3 project
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 10:30 pm 
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Hmm... I dunno, just what I figured from my experiences of having the pedal all the way down, and still grabbin the ebrake to lock the rear drums.

That and from the internal workings the disc proportioning valve having smaller ports, the softer spring, and the noticable wear from the pistons moving up and down.

If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong, but when you introduce such a restriction into the system you end up with a pressure drop, then coupled with the softer spring the rear discs should require 'less' pressure to work than the drums with larger ports and the harder spring.

Pistons lift = flow stopped.

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My cars:

J. McBean: '98 Suzuki Swift 1.3L 16v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk5" Made in Canada
The Mini Rattler: '94 Suzuki Swift .993L 6v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk3" Made in Canada *The Winter Beater*
B. Berry: '90 Chevrolet Turbo Sprint 1.0L 6v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk2" Made in Japan

I got 18MPG in a 3cyl with a 5 speed manual 4dr, '93 Metro! :yeahyeah


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 Post subject: Re: My T3 project
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 12:25 am 
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Well I went to the place I found to machine my wheels but after they looked at them they said they could only take off 5mm without filling the lug holes and redrilling them. Which would ruin the chrome on the center of the wheel. And I need about a half inch taken off. So instead of $65 a wheel it'll be $175 a wheel to fill, drill, cut, clean up, and rechrome them. Which isn't too bad but I'll have to wait a few weeks. Also my dad picked up my rotors and there's no way I can use the '97 caliper bracket in the front with the GT rotors, even cut down. There's not enough metal to take off the inside of the bridge. So I'm looking for a set of front caliper bridges for a GT. Which is fine because I already had a set of new Apex ceramic front GT pads anyways.

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 Post subject: Re: My T3 project
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 6:41 pm 
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Absolutely awesome! My hat is off to you.

Good to see a drag racer at heart fall in love with these babies.

Keep up the good work and I will have to drive one of mine over to meet you sometime. Maybe the Pomona finals?


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 Post subject: Re: My T3 project
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 1:08 am 
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Thanks! I've never raced this car, on a track anyways. I probably beat on it harder than most guy beat on their track car. I don't want to do that anymore though. I've only raced my dad's LT1 El Camino once during The Last Race at LACR. Lots of fun though. Wish I would've gone more before they closed that track though. But they're planning on building this http://avmotorplex.com/av_motorplex/index.htm out here soon. I really hope they build it. I have Willow Springs about 30 minutes away from my parents house and I'll be moving back there soon. I've never even been there but I definatly want to start going. My next project will be a pre-'76 car so I can hot rod it out and race it without worrying about breaking something I can't replace easily or smogging it. I'm thinking a '70ish Nova. Gut it, roll cage, TCI subframe, TCI 4 link, 383 stroker or an LS motor, and a T56 would be quite a track car :twisted:

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Last edited by 1987TurboSprint on Mon May 17, 2010 3:18 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: My T3 project
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 1:12 am 
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Had a busy day yesterday. I picked up my other hub from the machine shop.
image_id: 18818
image_id: 18819

I had to make a junkyard run to get another e-brake cable. My dad accidentally nicked the cable trying to cut the spring off the end, because they bind, and it started to fray.
image_id: 18816

I picked up my bumper after getting it media blasted.
image_id: 18814
image_id: 18815

I also picked up the supplies and paint I need for the grill and bumper.
image_id: 18821

The paint guy my dad uses had a hard time finding the factory paint. The tag says U26 but it wasn’t in his computer and he had to look in about three different books under Suzuki and it was ‘87 only in his book. He actually only found it because I remembered it was called superior white when I bought it to paint my other bumper a few years ago.
image_id: 18820

My dad made the e-brake cable bracket and we’ll probably slot it and use it to hold the brake hose.
image_id: 18817

Does anyone know where to find longer studs for these? The machine shop I use doesn’t list them and they said they called around and asked to no avail. The rear needs them now with the disks sandwiched in there. I’ve seen people mention getting longer studs for their Swifts but I can’t find anything with part numbers or any specific make/model/year. My machine shop says the knurls (spelling?) are different than anything they can get. I need ones that will go in without opening the holes up anymore. They also said I might be able to use an american stud but I’d rather not have different lug nuts front and back and I’d like to not have to do the front too unless I have to. Thanks for all the support guys!!

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 Post subject: Re: My T3 project
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 3:19 am 
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Got the bumper and grill painted. Still have to color sand and buff it but it looks pretty good. It's really glossy though, it sticks out. Makes me want to paint the whole car. But I want to paint it a really bright pearl white and I'd rather pay to get that done right. That and I want to drive it so bad!! Left the bowtie in primer, not sure what I'm going to paint it. I'm thinking white in the middle and red around the edge. I'm thinking the same for the hood latch, paint the center white and the trim around it red. Still have to paint the middle of the grill, the opening in the bumper, and the lower spoiler black. It's going to take a little tweaking to get the bumper to sit right. It's too low now because the bracket that holds the bumper has these hooks on them but theres nothing for them to hook on to on my car. My dad thinks he has a fix for that though. If you grab it and hold it up, it looks perfect.
image_id: 18858

Cleaned up and painted the wheel wells.
image_id: 18857

Also painted the e-brake bracket.
image_id: 18856

I've found someone on the redlinegti forum that has a spare pair of the GT front caliper brackets. I asked him to send me a pic just to make sure and they were the right ones. So I'm just waiting for him to tell me how much the total will be with shipping and then I'll just need the front calipers which I want to get new and I'll have everything I need for my GT brake conversion. And it will be all new rotors, calipers, and pads. I'm very excited about getting this done. Then I'll focus on getting the rest of the parts I need to finish the rebuild and get it running!! I want it running before the end of July for sure.

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 Post subject: Re: My T3 project
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 2:51 am 
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Well it's been a while since I last updated. Not too much to tell though, been a little busy and have been waiting for the money to buy parts. I found someone to buy a pair of GT front caliper brackets a little while back. Then about a week ago my dad was cleaning up the side yard and found where he put the GT brake setup I bought with the brackets :evil: so now I have two sets. I just ordered a new set of front GT calipers off eBay. Hopefully they actually have them and they're the right ones. Autozone and pepboys didn't. The ones I have are too rusted to rebuild otherwise I'd just do that. Then I just have to paint them and mount 'em and I should have my brake swap complete before the end of next week. Then I'll be focusing on the motor and everything I need to get it running. Which is a lot :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: My T3 project
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:39 am 
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The tabs to mount the spoiler are attached to the hatch but not part of it, theyre L shaped steel tabs that screw or rivet to the hatch then the spoiler screws in to them, I could get you pics and measurement of the tabs if you want. I have a mk1 spoiler and hardware in the garage. would be very easy to make out of some flat bar.

Scott

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 Post subject: Re: My T3 project
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:43 am 
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tbirdscott wrote:
The tabs to mount the spoiler are attached to the hatch but not part of it, theyre L shaped steel tabs that screw or rivet to the hatch then the spoiler screws in to them, I could get you pics and measurement of the tabs if you want. I have a mk1 spoiler and hardware in the garage. would be very easy to make out of some flat bar.

Scott
Yeah that would be great, thanks man. It also has plastic tabs doesn't it? You wouldn't happen to be looking to sell them would you? :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: My T3 project
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:53 am 
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I got these pics from Runbag's RWD build

image_id: 19151

It looks like there are plastic pieces. He also posted the install instructions that show how the pieces come together.

image_id: 19152

He said he got that spoiler new with all the parts but didn't reply when I asked him where he got it. I wish I could find one like that.

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 Post subject: Re: My T3 project
PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:06 am 
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Well unfortunatly they did not have them. I got an e-mail saying the calipers were too far backordered so they canceled the order. I already paid for them so now I have to wait until the refund my money. "Carparts" is the seller name. I would buy from them if I were you. Hopefully I get my money back without hassle.

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1987 Chevrolet Sprint Turbo under construction


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 Post subject: Re: My T3 project
PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:57 pm 
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Location: Willow River B.C.
Heres pics of the tabs, no theyre not for sale I gotta attach mine some how!

Image

Image

Image

The plastic bits go through a hole in the hatch and expand when you screw in to it keeping everything snug and hopefully waterproof, should be able to pick them up anywhere. Theyre like like drywall anchors.. which would probabally work just as well.

My spoiler is pretty beat, I intended to use it to make a mold so I could make a fiberglass one and then tape it on, theyre frickin heavy little things.

Scott

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1987 mk1 T3


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 Post subject: Re: My T3 project
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:10 am 
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Location: Palmdale, Ca
tbirdscott wrote:
Heres pics of the tabs, no theyre not for sale I gotta attach mine some how!

The plastic bits go through a hole in the hatch and expand when you screw in to it keeping everything snug and hopefully waterproof, should be able to pick them up anywhere. Theyre like like drywall anchors.. which would probabally work just as well.

My spoiler is pretty beat, I intended to use it to make a mold so I could make a fiberglass one and then tape it on, theyre frickin heavy little things.

Scott
Thanks, yeah I didn't think so :lol: Mine is pretty wavy, no tears, but should be fine with some work.

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 Post subject: Re: My T3 project
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 5:10 pm 
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Location: Palmdale, Ca
The front is finally finished!
image_id: 19244

FYI '95+ Metro brakes are not the same a vert brakes. The '97 Metro brakes I had worked great on my mk1 but when I tried to upgrade to GT brakes the caliper mounting holes were too narrow. Luckly I found a set of vert spindles. Vert spindle on the left, '97 Metro on the right
image_id: 19245

All thats left to do for the brakes is to trim the spacer for the caliper mounting bracket on the passenger side, weld the spacers to the rear end, bleed the brakes, and the brakes are done. Then I can move on to the next step in my project, getting it running :lol: I have a lot of work to do though. I got this from turbohull a little while ago.
image_id: 19246

It's the megasquirt setup from his t3. Coil on plug, crank triggered, with the distributor as the cam position sensor. I also went through the junkyard looking for the right Honda fuel pressure regulator to use with the B&M adjustable kit like Ground Rat did here http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=46072
image_id: 19248

I also got some suspension stuff that I put on with the front brakes. New Control arms and tie rod inners and greasable outers.
image_id: 19247

I sent suprf1y the money for a performance head package. I also took my crank pully and cam pully to the machine shop. They're going to make me a new crank pully out of aluminum and leave some meat on the end for a 36-1 trigger. They won't be starting it until they get back from Bonneville at the end of the month so I have some time to decide if I want it underdriven or not. The cam pully they're just going to take the stock one and make it adjustable. So I'm waiting for parts which is fine because I have to waiting for a few more checks but in about a month or so I should have everything I need to finish this and start driving it :twisted: I can't wait!!!

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