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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:37 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 4:03 pm
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Location: Vernonia, Oregon
My stock 1987 Turbo Sprint wouldn't start after work Saturday night. After I turned the key, it was firing as usual, then after 1/2 to 1 second, it stopped firing. The engine was turning over, but it wasn't firing any more. The spark from the coil is yellow instead of blue. I am going to replace the coil, but noticed that there is a rectangular block mounted to the coil mounting bracket that has two wires coming off of it. One wire is hooked up to a connector directly behind the coil and the other has a connector at the end but is hanging free. What is this block and what should that second wire be connected to?

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1987 Sprint turbo
1989 Dodge Caravan SE turbo 5 speed
1991 Honda ST1100
2000 Nissan Altima


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:41 pm 
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Location: Palm Springs: Too hot from June to Oct.!
deebee in Gresham is about 60 miles from you and has the identical car.
Sometimes the distributor drive tangs break.
What kind of oil are you using?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:52 pm 
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Location: Vernonia, Oregon
I'm using 10W-30 oil. I'm hoping it isn't the distributor, but at this point, it could be several things.

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1987 Sprint turbo
1989 Dodge Caravan SE turbo 5 speed
1991 Honda ST1100
2000 Nissan Altima


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:55 pm 
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Island Inbreeder
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Location: Emerald city Washington
I concur dizzy drive bent use a 12mm wrench to remove and check the dizzy make a mark on the two half by the 12 mm bolt so you know were it sets back in the dizzy only goes on one way
so don't worry about if you will mess up your timing cause you can't

or you could check your fuel pump relay
There are two little black boxes that hang off you passanger side shock tower
(1) is your starting relay
(2) is your fuel pump relay
if you have a helper have them turn the key to the "on" position while you put your hand on the relays you should feel a click that's your fuel relay.
Then have them try to start the car the other relay will click while the car is cranking that is your starting relay


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:59 pm 
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Location: columbus, ohio
if it does turn out to be the distributor, send it to fainya (a member here) in texas and he'll repair it to new service specs. his rates are really reasonable and his work is excellent. :wink:

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1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:17 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 4:03 pm
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Location: Vernonia, Oregon
Thank you all for your help. I tried spraying starting fluid and it still didn't fire so I'm sure it is aspark issue. Does anyone know what the small box on the coil mounting bracket is and where the wires connect?

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1987 Sprint turbo
1989 Dodge Caravan SE turbo 5 speed
1991 Honda ST1100
2000 Nissan Altima


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:37 pm 
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a.k.a Bum head
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Joined: Mon May 31, 2004 5:29 pm
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Location: London, ON
It's an interference filter. One end connects to ground, the other to the + terminal on the coil. Sadly it's not the source of your issues.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:02 pm 
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Location: Vernonia, Oregon
CJDavE wrote:
It's an interference filter. One end connects to ground, the other to the + terminal on the coil. Sadly it's not the source of your issues.

Ah, thank you. It was a long shot.

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1987 Sprint turbo
1989 Dodge Caravan SE turbo 5 speed
1991 Honda ST1100
2000 Nissan Altima


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:44 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 4:03 pm
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Location: Vernonia, Oregon
Now I am having an issue where I am only getting spark from my coil when I first turn the key to start and when I let off from cranking. I have changed the coil and coil wire and still have the same results. I have +12V to the coil the whole time. Is there something else that controls the coil sparking?

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1987 Sprint turbo
1989 Dodge Caravan SE turbo 5 speed
1991 Honda ST1100
2000 Nissan Altima


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:07 pm 
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Suzuki Elder
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Location: columbus, ohio
i'm not specifically a mk1 turbo3 guy but i believe that the anti-knock system module also acts as the ignitor and those have a habit of going toes up causing a spark control issue.

to reiterate, you may yet have a distributor problem.

_________________
1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:46 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:09 pm
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Location: Palm Springs: Too hot from June to Oct.!
Post your code(s).

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DIY Broken Bolt Removal: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41042
DIY Clutch Adjustment: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48281
DIY Wheel Bearings: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29003
DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:33 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 4:03 pm
Posts: 77
Location: Vernonia, Oregon
Code: 41 Ignition signal circuit (no signal)

All the wiring appears to be good.

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1987 Sprint turbo
1989 Dodge Caravan SE turbo 5 speed
1991 Honda ST1100
2000 Nissan Altima


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:06 pm 
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Island Inbreeder
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Location: Emerald city Washington
TomInOregon wrote:
Code: 41 Ignition signal circuit (no signal)

All the wiring appears to be good.


.
.time to have a quick look at your ignition switch wiring ... Very common problem on our MK1 sprints
Around your steering wheel is a coller drop the lower half plastic (5 Philips screw)
you'll see the round cylinder (key switch ) on the back will be a white round plug with 4-5 five wires on it look to see if any of those wires are burnt does it smell funny like burnt wiring .?
If not you can eliminate the ignition switch wiring.!


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:39 am 
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Location: Palmdale, Ca
I had that code come up once. After I filled up the gas tank it wouldn't start and the cel was on, code 41. Pulled my phone out and went on teamswift to search for code 41. Saw a few people say to check the wiring to the coil and yep, wire pulled out of a crimped connection. It was the coil ground. Ripped the crimp off the other side and twisted the wires together and that did it. Soldered it when I got home. Lucky me eh? :lol:

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1987 Chevrolet Sprint Turbo under construction


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:25 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:33 pm
Posts: 28
Location: Anchorage, AK 87 Turbo Sprint
What did you see when you pulled the distributor to check the tang?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:41 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 4:03 pm
Posts: 77
Location: Vernonia, Oregon
Sorry for not updating sooner. With the intermittent spark from the coil and not having a warm, dry place to work on the car, I turned it over to my mechanic. He found that he has 5V going to the distributor instead of 12V. There may still be a distributor issue, but without the correct voltage getting to the distributor it won't matter.

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1987 Sprint turbo
1989 Dodge Caravan SE turbo 5 speed
1991 Honda ST1100
2000 Nissan Altima


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:34 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:56 am
Posts: 44
Location: oregon
I had an issue similar to yours, basically intermittent spark with the same trouble code. It turned out there was a ground ring that mounts to the side of the head near the dizzy that was unhooked. Might be a good place to check make sure it's intact.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:46 am 
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Suzuki Elder
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Location: columbus, ohio
don't forget that we have a member in texas who does a great job rebuilding and calibrating the ignition curve on these distributors. his name is fainya. :wink:

_________________
1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:19 pm 
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Island Inbreeder
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Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:56 pm
Posts: 6347
Location: Emerald city Washington
jaguar,vettes&sprints wrote:
TomInOregon wrote:
Code: 41 Ignition signal circuit (no signal)

All the wiring appears to be good.


.
.time to have a quick look at your ignition switch wiring ... Very common problem on our MK1 sprints
Around your steering wheel is a coller drop the lower half plastic (5 Philips screw)
you'll see the round cylinder (key switch ) on the back will be a white round plug with 4-5 five wires on it look to see if any of those wires are burnt does it smell funny like burnt wiring .?
If not you can eliminate the ignition switch wiring.!


.
still waiting for closer.!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:21 am 
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Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 4:03 pm
Posts: 77
Location: Vernonia, Oregon
It looks like the problem may be the igniter/spark control module. It has 12V going to it, but nothing out. With a little research, it looks like the problem may also be the knock sensor or the wiring causing the module to retard the timing, but sounds like the spark is absent, not retarded. Does anyone know if new modules are available anywhere? Googling hasn't turned up any. Thank you.

Tom

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1987 Sprint turbo
1989 Dodge Caravan SE turbo 5 speed
1991 Honda ST1100
2000 Nissan Altima


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:01 pm 
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Location: Palm Springs: Too hot from June to Oct.!
TomInOregon wrote:
Does anyone know if new modules are available anywhere? Thank you.

Tom

Yes Tom, they are available.
Check the Rock Auto web site and see if they have a part number and picture you can insert in your next post.
Let us know the price shipped while you're at it.

_________________
DIY Broken Bolt Removal: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41042
DIY Clutch Adjustment: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48281
DIY Wheel Bearings: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29003
DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:08 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 4:03 pm
Posts: 77
Location: Vernonia, Oregon
I couldn't find one at RockAuto. I found the ignition module that is part of the distributor, but not the Ignitor/Knock control module. I did find another listmember who had one for sale, so that will be on its' way soon. Thank you all for your help. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Tom

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1987 Sprint turbo
1989 Dodge Caravan SE turbo 5 speed
1991 Honda ST1100
2000 Nissan Altima


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:14 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:28 pm
Posts: 1170
Location: So Cal, USA
I had code 41 and it took me few weeks to trace it after
doing every diagnostic test possible outlined in the manual.

Basically the problem was the wiring, the distributor harness.
I had to check every wire in the harness doing a continuity test.
I found the bad wire after a bit of wiggling the harness.
I sliced open the insulation on the wire and found a break,
there absolutely were no visible signs on the outside of the wire.

I cut out the bad section of the wire and spliced in a new section
and 8 years later still good.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:15 pm 
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Suzuki Elder
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Posts: 11669
Location: columbus, ohio
i've had the same type of problems with old gt wiring harnesses, too. i have ended up tracing hidden conductor breaks close to the big gromett that sits in the firewall.

it's really difficult to find a break hidden by insulation, there's no good way to do a visual check. i have a diagnostic tool that has a radio transmitter that you attach to the wire you need to check and a little reciever that you use to scan the wire. when you run it past the break, an indicator (tone and led) tells you where the broken conductor is.

i use it to check wiring harnesses while i'm getting parts ready for a project. i also have a bag full of old wiring harnesses from which i rob sensor connectors for my mods.

_________________
1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:38 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 4:03 pm
Posts: 77
Location: Vernonia, Oregon
We put the other Ignitor module in and we still have no output from the module. I have sent an email to Fainya regarding a distributor rebuild, but if we have no output from the module, I don't know what good a distributor rebuild will do. Does anyone have any other ideas why I wouldn't have output from the Ignitor module?

Thanks,
Tom

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1987 Sprint turbo
1989 Dodge Caravan SE turbo 5 speed
1991 Honda ST1100
2000 Nissan Altima


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