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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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 Post subject: Take a look at this!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:10 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:56 am
Posts: 44
Location: oregon
So I pulled the pistons and here's what I saw:
Tell me what you guys think. :huh:


Attachments:
File comment: Pic of the mains
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File comment: #3 piston/rod
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File comment: #2 piston/rod
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File comment: #1 Piston/rod
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 Post subject: Re: Take a look at this!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:22 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:09 pm
Posts: 4998
Location: Palm Springs: Too hot from June to Oct.!
What kind of oil?

This guy has a pretty good take on block preparation:

and about the 7 minute mark it reminded me of this thread.

Pretty good how some liners only need two O-rings even though they have 3 spots for 'em.

I know you like to rev your engines pretty high.
That's why I asked what kind of oil you run.
Some of the newbies might get confused when you show them such a small slice of the pie.

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DIY Broken Bolt Removal: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41042
DIY Clutch Adjustment: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48281
DIY Wheel Bearings: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29003
DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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 Post subject: Re: Take a look at this!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:15 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:28 pm
Posts: 1170
Location: So Cal, USA
I've seen worse :ez_evil:

There's dozens of bearing wear pic tutorials on the web
such as:
http://www.kingbearings.com/files/Engin ... d_Them.pdf

But based on your stated history, I'd say insufficient lubrication in combination
with contaminated oil.
You mentioned it was run around 20PSI before got it, no telling how hard it
was run, I'm guessing very spirited! Also you mentioned that the head gasket
was blown and plenty of water droplets coming out of your valve cover vent.

Looks like you're on the right path. If it were me and it's torn down this far
I would just start over with a fresh rebuild and have it at least balanced as
well (with flywheel and c/s pulley).
I'm guessing that wasn't the case after Ground Rat trimmed those pistons
to clear the crank. My recent complete bearing set was around $35 shipped
so it's not a huge expense, it's just the machine shop bills that tend to
tip the scales.


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 Post subject: Re: Take a look at this!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:38 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:56 am
Posts: 44
Location: oregon
Yeah I'm definately getting new bearings. They are worn enough I feel it would be justified to get them replaced. Where do you get your bearings for rebuild?


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 Post subject: Re: Take a look at this!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:16 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:41 am
Posts: 170
Location: Oregon
Geo Glenn on GMF buys factory bearings for his rebuilds. He even gets the fractional undersizes for perfect factory fit.

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 Post subject: Re: Take a look at this!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:23 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:28 pm
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Location: So Cal, USA
Best deal I could find.
It took a fair amount of searching, it wasn't exactly
easy to find, but if you look hard enough..

Complete set including thrust bearing
http://www.ebay.com/itm/260554099947?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

Attachment:
brg.jpg
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 Post subject: Re: Take a look at this!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:17 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:56 am
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Location: oregon
Wow that seems like a good deal to me!
I ordered new rings ( the oil rings were shot for sure) and will order new bearings now too. Sent the block to the machinist today to have the deck planed.
I asked Ground Rat how many miles on the motor since he did the pistons. He said less than 10K and he had replaced the bearings too. So that's what things look like after 10k of spirited driving!
This car is gonna need alot of work besides the motor. I'm going to have to ask alot of other questions too. Next in line I need to rebuild the suspension (it's shot).


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 Post subject: Re: Take a look at this!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:39 pm 
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Location: columbus, ohio
ball tipped micrometers and lots of measuring is what it takes.

most of the time, just ordering a new set of bearings and installing them won't get you the tolerances required to bring an engine back to service limit specs let alone get you back to factory build specs.

it takes more than luck to make any ebay bearing kit in a g10. you'll more than likely need to buy 10 sets of bearings, measure them all, and select the ones that will give you the proper fitment. you build a g10 block to be super tight or don't even bother. :wink:

that goes double for a turbo3.

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 Post subject: Re: Take a look at this!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:42 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:56 am
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Location: oregon
Hmm then maybe what I should do then is let the machinist come up with the bearings. He's a perfectionist so I'm sure they'd be better than what I could do.
It does seem in this world you get what you pay for...


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 Post subject: Re: Take a look at this!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:55 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:09 pm
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Location: Palm Springs: Too hot from June to Oct.!
velorossa wrote:
Hmm then maybe what I should do then is let the machinist come up with the bearings. He's a perfectionist so I'm sure they'd be better than what I could do.
It does seem in this world you get what you pay for...

:goodpost:

_________________
DIY Broken Bolt Removal: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41042
DIY Clutch Adjustment: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48281
DIY Wheel Bearings: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29003
DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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 Post subject: Re: Take a look at this!
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:09 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:28 pm
Posts: 1170
Location: So Cal, USA
I pieced together the first set of bearings at the end of last year,
it was a PITA. I ended up paying 3 times as much and a lot
of running around. The boxes I got from local parts houses
had been around a while, you could tell from the boxes, and
ended up with 3 different brands.

The ones I got from Ebay were of reputable brand and quality.

Your machinist knows how to build motors, however you may know
more about the G10T nuances than your machinist.
I highly doubt your machinist is going to pick through 10 sets of
bearings to get the right ones to fit. There has to be some trust
somewhere, or you have the wrong machinist.
They tell me what I need and I get it, I trust them to tell me
if the quality of the part is not to spec.
However, since they do not live and breath on G10's alone,
you can't expect them (for example)
to know that Vitara Pistons are a compatable
replacement for the Non-Available Turbo Piston.

You do have to tell your machinist what you want,
and some times it takes some prodding and monitoring
to ensure completion. Monitoring and communication being
the key.

Before a rebuild, I usually start stocking a certain amount of
parts. Some of the parts I will wait until the teardown and
inspection phase of the block so I can verify I get what
the machinist needs. Sure, anybody can tear down a block
and slap a set of bearings in it, but that's why I take it to the
machinist. They know more, and have the right tools, about
assembling the short block and that's why I give them that
burden and monetary compensation because I know it will
be done right and if they fuck it up, then they'll take responsibility.
But that's it, I certainly wouldn't want them to R&R it for me,
I know they can build a block, but if they got a hose clamp
off center, I know I'd lose sleep over it.


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 Post subject: Re: Take a look at this!
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:49 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:46 pm
Posts: 883
Location: Arizona
velorossa wrote:
So I pulled the pistons and here's what I saw:
Tell me what you guys think. :huh:


Those are not 10K mil. bearings . Only way they can get that way in 10K is if he drove it WOT with 1.5 quarts of oil he pulled out of his old tractor that's been sitting in barn since 1956 . I dont care how cheap the bearings were. I've done few rebuilds with cheap parts , none of them look like that when you open them after 100K let alone 10K if you do oil and filter changes.


EDIT : Im with JamalSpeling on your machine shop expertise . More likely then not that he has never seen G10T engine in his career . I've seen work of those "experts" more then once . I have one in my back yard right now . Not a single factory bolt on that car , where it's supposed to be , let alone the right thread one.


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 Post subject: Re: Take a look at this!
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:44 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:56 am
Posts: 44
Location: oregon
Um actually I think that the car was driven WOT alot and was probably run low on oil too. =) If Ground Rat did have the bearings done it would have been done by a not so reputable shop so they may have been sized all that well anyway.
The machinist has done alot of work on Geos. And honestly I'd trust him more to size the bearings more than me since I haven't done it before.


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