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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:28 pm 
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Location: westville nj
If the timing belt brakes with engine running. Will it cause damage to valves?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:53 pm 
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No, it is a non-interference type motor.

However, there is a question of possible interference if you
rebuild the motor with Vitara pistons that have the 4-valve
reliefs on the piston tops.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:42 pm 
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1988SPRINTTURBO wrote:
If the timing belt brakes with engine running. Will it cause damage to valves?


.
I do not wish to partake in these Shinanagans or shananories......jv&s
.
.


Last edited by jaguar,vettes&sprints on Sat Jul 15, 2017 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:00 pm 
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Thank You.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:00 am 
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JamalSpelling wrote:
No, it is a non-interference type motor.

However, there is a question of possible interference if you
rebuild the motor with Vitara pistons that have the 4-valve
reliefs on the piston tops.


there is no question about it, the piston face profile of the vitara pistons don't align the valve reliefs with the g10 valves and when you use the vitara pistons on any g10, mk1 or mk2, the result is an interference type engine.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:03 pm 
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1988SPRINTTURBO wrote:
If the timing belt brakes with engine running. Will it cause damage to valves?


With stock pistons you should be OK but that car is also 25 years old . It doesn't matter it has only 65K miles belts were never designed for that , you need to replace it along with all the other belts and fluids . Don't change hoses they are good for a life of the car . Im still on my original ones and I have 250K on my car.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:37 am 
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Quote:
Don't change hoses they are good for a life of the car


:huh:
You have no idea what the coolant even looks like,
it could be brown sludge.

Yes, some of the hoses are particularly robust, and in some
cases where the cooling system has been serviced properly
on an annual basis, it may extend the service life of the hoses.
A frequent thorough inspection of the complete cooling system
and hoses is a good idea.

Electrolysis breaks down the hoses from the inside,
you cannot see this. As well as environmental
conditions all need to be taken into account.
I've seen coolant housing nipples rotted through,
and swiss cheese coolant tubes, imagine the toll
it takes on the hoses as well.

Pay particular attention to the small turbo cooling lines,
the one that is under the turbo will probably be the
first one to let go when you least expect it.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:24 am 
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i routinely replace all the hoses under the hood on new to me cars that i plan on keeping.

25 years is a long time for rubber parts. :blackeye:

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:37 pm 
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OK your points are valid if we assume the car was not maintained. In my experience, and I do maintain my cars, radiator hoses and heater hoses are better after 25 years then anything you buy aftermarket in Checker/AutoZone/PepBoys/Napa. Of course they are removed and inspected periodically while doing other maintenance. The turbo and throttle coolant hoses are different story. They will spring a leak if they don't get replaced. Now you may think my cars are trailer/garage queens but at some point I was delivering pizzas 5 days a week in heavy traffic 8 hours a day in Phoenix for a few 100K miles. Don't think there i tougher environment for hose testing anywhere. So I am talking from some experience. I have same experience with factory CV joints . I would never replace mine , replace torn boots and grease but not axles. On a '95 Metro Im driving as a commuter car now I had to replace AutoZone/Checker/Napa rebuilt axles because they were garbage. I got couple OEM ones out of junkyard , changed boots and they will be running strong till the car is scrapped.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:17 pm 
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My Turbo Intercooler hoses are amazingly intact. There are a few I had to replace because they
rubbed on some brackets and chaffed a hole through and of course I've had to trim the ends a few
times due to hose clamp wear.

Reman axles are garbage, I would go through those about every 2 years, but I had lifetime
warrantees. I recently found a source for NEW axles and those are perfect.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:01 pm 
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t3 ragtop wrote:
JamalSpelling wrote:
No, it is a non-interference type motor.

However, there is a question of possible interference if you
rebuild the motor with Vitara pistons that have the 4-valve
reliefs on the piston tops.


there is no question about it, the piston face profile of the vitara pistons don't align the valve reliefs with the g10 valves and when you use the vitara pistons on any g10, mk1 or mk2, the result is an interference type engine.


You CANNOT make a Mk2 G10 interference unless you use pistons with crazy high domes, a high lift cam and mill the head .100" Even then it still likely won't be. With Vitara pistons in a Mk1 there should also be no interference. Not only are they dished, but they also sit down in the bore quite a bit (too much IMO)

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:34 pm 
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well, that's settled. :lol:

i mashed a valve all the way down until the valve spring bound up on itself. with a straight edge across the face of the head it's apparent that there would be enough room to clear the vitara piston.

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My YouTube Channel
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SAAB Sonett II


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:08 pm 
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Glad we got that out of the way....

On a related topic,

What is the official compression ratio on a T3
that has the Vitara piston modification?

Stock vs. Modified (for arguments sake, we'll discount
any head or block milling)

And is this compression ratio different if you use
the earlier 2 valve per cylinder pistons from said Vitara?


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:36 am 
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As far as I recall, it's very low, like 7.5 - 1

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:49 am 
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which is why all the guys i talked to about their use of them were running twice the boost of the oem configuration or more.

in the end, since there are no more oversize turbo3 pistons, when you have to bore cylinders to get back to round and square bores on a well worn block, the vitara pistons work to recover the block. the other option is to have the shop replace the bore liners so that you can start over with standard pistons and rings. i did that on my blue engine and it added around $100 for each new bore liner.

if i was going to maintain the stock turbo and configuration i would opt for the new bore liners. when you want to play with a new turbo, increased boost, and a new control set, the lower base compression of the vitara pistons is easy to work around.

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My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:50 am 
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1.3 16V SOHC pistons are the simplest solution. Just take a skim off the top to get zero deck height and you're golden. They're dished and use the big pin

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:24 pm 
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If you have a low compression motor and a high compression motor,
and you apply 5 pounds of boost to each, it's still 5 pounds of boost
regardless of compression ratio, correct?

When you take the stock T3 motor and do the piston swap to
get a lower base compression, but leave everything else the same,
which aspects are affected? Total HP, powerband, torque?

Is the advantage of a low compression motor simply the fact of
more potential HP because you can have higher boost levels and
less chance of detonation?


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:27 pm 
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JamalSpelling wrote:
Is the advantage of a low compression motor simply the fact of
more potential HP because you can have higher boost levels and
less chance of detonation?



Yes.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:13 pm 
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I'm not the expert but when I did my first Sidekick piston rebuild my father measured everything and did some calculations and came up with virtually same numbers as OEM compression. As far as I can remember it was just two tenths off. I think I will ask my buddy that's building that salt flats racer to recalculate it. He has little more expertise.

JamalSpelling wrote:

When you take the stock T3 motor and do the piston swap to
get a lower base compression, but leave everything else the same,
which aspects are affected? Total HP, powerband, torque?



If you leave everything else the same you will affect all of it. Total HP and torque and your power band will move higher in the rev range for amount it takes more revs to reach higher boost to make up for lost base compression. Most of all you will lose the efficiency - gas mileage when you are off the boost which is most of the time. The high gas mileage numbers you see with all the new turbocharged engines is thanks to high compression they can run with direct injection. Most of them are in the 9.5-10.5 range . Old school from the eighties with more primitive engine management could only do 7.5-8.5 at the most with 12:1 AFR under boost to prevent the detonation. Ultimately new generation makes more power out of same displacement and same boost but where we beat them every time is weight of the car. All this stuff was necessary because cars porked out in last 10 years. Imagine the new 1.0 in a Mk1 or Mk2 Swift. We would be getting easy 50+ MPG without even trying and be smoking most of the cars on the road at the stop light. I can dream right :D maybe I should just start making plans instead 8)


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:00 pm 
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I was running stock boost on a stock NA bottom end with the stock ECU (mk2) with no detonation issues. Worked great. Just sayin'.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:26 pm 
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,,,,,,,,,,,


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:23 pm 
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Quote:
I was running stock boost on a stock NA bottom end with the stock ECU (mk2) with no detonation issues. Worked great. Just sayin'.


I would have to assume that your knock sensor was compensating.


Quote:
Most of all you will lose the efficiency - gas mileage when you are off the boost which is most of the time


Come on...we drive the turbos because we like boost, we are not the old lady from Pasadena,
I would say I drive boost minimum 50%, if not more.

Quote:
I can dream right


Wish we had the 'free valve' actuator camless upgrade, with direct injection option and variable intake sizing (like the new 2-stroke).
(Damn computers will be the death of us all)
=)


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:33 am 
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JamalSpelling wrote:
Come on...we drive the turbos because we like boost, we are not the old lady from Pasadena,
I would say I drive boost minimum 50%, if not more.


:lol: I suspect you are probably right about that one. With my normal driving style Im getting 35-37 mpg but when gas hit $5 few years ago I drove two tankfulls making sure I never ventured into the boost . Everyone behind me was ready to pull the gun out :lol:
I just wanted to see if I can achieve 40mpg my car used to get when it was bone stock and 50K miles when I bought it. I was surprised that it was still possible to do it after all the mods . Bigger heavier wheels , wider tires , bigger heavier brakes and 200K miles later. What's not to like :D


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:10 am 
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JamalSpelling wrote:
Quote:
I was running stock boost on a stock NA bottom end with the stock ECU (mk2) with no detonation issues. Worked great. Just sayin'.


I would have to assume that your knock sensor was compensating.

=)


No knock sensor on a NA Mk2 block :P . The stock non turbo compression is fine for stock to mild boost, even for higher boost if you're careful with the timing. The turbo motors are way overbuilt, that's why they last indefinitely.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:09 pm 
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all my mk2 turbo3 engines had oem knock sensors with timing control integrated into the ecus.

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My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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