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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:18 pm 
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Fixed the valve cover. Apparantly that was not the issue. Im stumped.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVGR6wRa ... e=youtu.be

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:23 am 
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EDIT: FOR YOUR BENEFIT AND ANYBODY ELSE WHO WANTS TO CHIME IN
THIS IS A CONTINUATION OF 2 PREVIOUS THREADS, YOU MAY WANT TO READ
FIRST ON THE HISTORY OF THIS PROBLEM.

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=55598
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=55655

(best to keep the same post going for the same problem, so
people know what you've done so far)




I'm not denying you have a bad tach signal,
but not confirming it either. I couldn't catch
enough audio of the engine running at the
beginning of your vid.

You do however have several things going on that
should be addressed.
what is going on with your airbox?
That is not helping, introduding unfiltered air is not good.
For one, your contaminating the IAT, you'll get a coating on
it that will act as an insulator and send a false signal.
By not running a filter that acts as a buffer, you'll have
much more turbulence on your flapper in the VAF.
Not to mention what else you're sucking in through the turbo
and depositing on the throttle plate. Pull of the intake hose
at the manifold and have a good look at the throttle plate,
it may need a good cleaning.
If you want to try to increase air flow, get a cone filter with
proper adaptor, or a K&N will fit in the factory airbox
and you can modify the bottom by cutting or drilling holes
in the bottom canister and you'll be way better off.

The chrome air tube does not have the factory clamp that
secures it to the valve cover to it's probably flapping around
abit and introducing unmetered air where it slides in the turbo.
At that point the only thing that seals it is a 30 year old o ring
so you may want to secure that tube.
And where are the hose clamps on the hoses top of the valve
cover? those need to be sealed tight, especially if they're OE,
they're old and cracked and won't seal shit w/o clamps.

That's good for starters.
Maybe a little more audio for diagnosis and a few high rez
pics of your engine bay might uncover a few things by some
of us more seasoned T3 nuts.

Attachment:
starters.jpg
starters.jpg [ 112.06 KIB | Viewed 3137 times ]


Last edited by JamalSpelling on Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:58 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:23 am 
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edit.dbl post.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:44 am 
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The air box is taken apart because I was messing with the vaf to see if that was my problem. The car ran even worse with it together. I was going to put that together again once I figure out my problem. The clamps for the pcv hoses are on there maybe just hard to see? also I have the clamps pulled back onto the tubes so that I could pull individual pcv tubes to see if I the way the car ran was changing. If I pulled either pcv tube the thing will stall but if youre quick enough to put them back on before it stalls it starts running again. Never had a clamp from the chrome tube to the valve cover when I bought it. I had noticed the un used bracket on the valve cover. This issue was a sudden failure while driving when it happend and thats why im more inclined to believe its electrical related. That combined with the whack tach.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:45 am 
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Also since you said you could not hear in the beginning of the video the Engine is purring like a kitten at idle. Sounds great.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:49 am 
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groovysomethin wrote:
This issue was a sudden failure while driving when it happend and thats why im more inclined to believe its electrical related. That combined with the whack tach.

:goodpost:

If it is electrically related, think back to the last thing you did to the car.
Perhaps something recently done is coming back to haunt you.
New sound system?
Reaching under the dash to flip a switch with those big paws of yours?
Road vibration caused a connector to lose continuity on one of the pins?

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DIY Broken Bolt Removal: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41042
DIY Clutch Adjustment: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48281
DIY Wheel Bearings: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29003
DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:28 am 
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Quote:
The air box is taken apart because



I figured, but had to ask. People do strange things sometime.

But you can't exactly say you have a low rpm problem, post a vid showing at
least half a dozen visually striking issues, and not expect some comments.
For all we know, you've been running it that way all along.

I can't recall now if you've checked for any codes?

So let me get this right,
You had a tough time replacing the starter but finally got the job done
with some persuasion,

approx. 80 miles later, the car starts to run bad AND your tach starts
acting up. You say your tach is acting up, not because the engine
actually has a 'wandering idle' but is showing a false reading on
an engine that is idling steady? But even though it's idling ok,
you have an actual rpm problem from 1500-2500 rpm


Am I on track so far?....

You then address electrical issues such as repairing some wiring,
cleaning some grounds etc. and
service some things on the motor (v/c gasket) which improve the idle
but..
you are still having poor idle between 1500-2500 rpm
and an erratic tach display even though the rpm is not wandering?

As Phil mentioned, it's probably related to the last thing you did,
so you've gone over every square inch of your starter repair
and looked for any wiring damage, wiring loom, knock sensor wire,
coil wiring, etc...that you may have nudged when you persuaded
your starter loose?

At this point, I would revisit that.
and check for any codes.

As well as what plugs you are using with what gap,
and inspect the cap and rotor. Some pics wouldn't hurt
either of those parts.
Still under the assumption, you have 2 separate problems,
poor low RPM, dirty tach signal. I think they're related,
but you say they're different issues.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:47 am 
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The vehicle drove over 200 miles maybe closer to 250 before it acted up after the starter repair.

The only wiring near the starter where I was "persuading" is the knock sensor. Ive tried unplugging it and it makes no difference. I guess it is possible a wire has opened itself inside the harness that goes near the alternator but it is highly unlikely.

You are 100% correct in your understanding of my idle issue. ACTUAL engine rpm is at 900 and steady but tach reading is erraticly bouncing from 1600-2000.

The issue it has is from running between 2000-2500 rpm it runs fine under and over but the tach just is not reading accurate once the engine settles down.

I have not said they are casued by different things? I have the feeling they are one in the same issue.

Planning on pulling the plugs today and just throwing a coil at it because I have an extra one in my garage. Checked dizzy cap right when car started acting up and cap and plug wires are brand new.

Ive noticed that when the engine is idling (900rpm) and i ease on the gas and bring the rpm up slowly the tachometer snaps down to 1500 as soon as the engine rpm reaches there and then the tach signal becomes accurate but will not rev past 2000 without heavy foot, then after it gets past 2500 the engine runs better then when It had been running correctly(since I fixed that valve cover gasket leak Im guessing).

Thanks for linking to my other post I made a new one because I was going after the VAF before and now I dont really think that is the problem.


Thanks for the brainstorming everyone

Edit: I also just remembered to mention that I put an inline spark tester on it and it does not lose spark when the engine will not stay between 2000-2500 (tried on all 3 plugs). Its almost like the ecm is cutting fuel? Dont have an injector noid light to verify that fuel is being cut.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:09 pm 
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Quote:
The issue it has is from running between 2000-2500


This is where the engine runs rough, correct?

Quote:
Checked dizzy cap right when car started acting up and cap and plug wires are brand new


I am asking because it is possible to install the wrong part (with difficulty)
the Turbo parts are not interchangeable with the Normally aspirated.
What about the rotor? New as well? That's why I was asking for pics,
easy to spot any wrong parts or defects on the dist. parts.


I would not even rule out entirely that your tachometer could be on
it's way out as well.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:23 pm 
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Well I wouldnt say runs rough...

Id say wont run at all there. Its not as if it drops a cylinder and is just running badly it flat out acts like you turned off the key from 2000-2500 but while this is happening the spark is still there.

Was talking to a fellow technician at my job and he mentioned on older hondas he used to see the rotor arcing to the dizzy shaft so as soon as I get home Im going to pull the rotor out and ill take pictures of it all for you guys. In fact the rotor is the only part I havent extensively looked at.

The cap is easily removed and installed so Im hoping that it is the correct one?

Does the tach signal pass through the ipc before getting to the ecm or is there a splice somewhere?

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:13 pm 
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Quote:
The cap is easily removed and installed so Im hoping that it is the correct one?

Also check the center of the cap on the inside sometimes the carbon ball is missing.

Quote:
Does the tach signal pass through the ipc before getting to the ecm or is there a splice somewhere?

I'll try to dig out the wiring diagram and check.

May also be a problem with the mechanical advance, they are usually frozen at this point,
as well as missing springs sometimes spring parts get caught up in the dist. internals.
Also may want to check vacuum advance modules.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:06 pm 
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No pictures or vid this time, with the weather this past week you would think I lived in Europe. Cloudy and raining as far as the eye can see. I did pull the cap and rotor off and found an alarming amount of oil inside the distributor. going to pull the dist out as soon as weather permits and take some pictures for you all.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:01 pm 
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Location: columbus, ohio
may i suggest that you haul that old million mile distributor off and mail it to our member "fainya" in texas for a rebuild?

if it's puking oil, it needs a new seal. he'll replace the bearing, the seal, de-grease and bead blast the housing, free up the breaker plate, check the mechanical advance springs, and check it on his distributor bench.

when you get it back, it will be back to service limits and will look better than new. :wink:

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=55766&p=417846#p417846

here's what i got back after i sent him a greasy rustball.
Image
Image

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:14 am 
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Sorry for the long delay. Havent had much free time here lately. I pulled the distributor out and found broken springs. Also besides the bad seal and broken springs there is another problem. Im having trouble even trying to figure out what to call the part. Under the rotor there is a triangular metal piece on the shaft that spins. This is hitting the tabs that come up from the bottom of the distributor and are supposed to be aligned with 2 of the corners of the triangle. Im guessing its a position sensor of some sort for the pickup coil? Please feel free to school me on what it actually is for but I know it wasnt supposed to hit those tabs and bend them. I tried to order a new distributor from rock auto but they wanted me to send it in for them to rebuild it but I dont want to do that. I want a new already rebuilt part. Anybody have an extra distributor laying around?

here is the best quality pic I can do as of right now. I dont know why it gets so dark every time I upload it but you can see the bent tab. Image

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Last edited by groovysomethin on Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:27 am 
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t3 ragtop wrote:
may i suggest that you haul that old million mile distributor off and mail it to our member "fainya" in texas for a rebuild?

if it's puking oil, it needs a new seal. he'll replace the bearing, the seal, de-grease and bead blast the housing, free up the breaker plate, check the mechanical advance springs, and check it on his distributor bench.

when you get it back, it will be back to service limits and will look better than new. :wink:

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=55766&p=417846#p417846

here's what i got back after i sent him a greasy rustball.
Image
Image
I'd listen to t3 and pass on the reman distributor

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:08 am 
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I pmed fainya and will be sending my damaged unit out to him asap. Hopefully he will be able to mend all the problems mine has. On another note it looks as if he is our only option at this point as I could not find any places that actually have a stocked distributor.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:25 pm 
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That's part of your vacuum advance,
that plate turns when the vacuum module either
advances or retards the timing.
It's obviously out of alignment or loose or something,
or else you may have a seriously worn bearing on the center shaft.
The larger bearing on the top portion that allows the advance
unit to turn also may have lost a ball. Hard to tell till you pull
it apart for inspection.
Either way it's no bueno.
It's rather tedious to rebuild them yourself as you have to have
a good patience level and the ability to rig up some pullers
to get it apart, then plenty of patience freeing up all the stuck
parts and it's a bit tricky finding the replacement parts but
it's doable. I had him rebuild 3 of them for me, then figured
I'd give it a shot myself, so with some patience I got one
rebuilt like new and enough parts for all my spares.
The best part about fainya's rebuild is he installs a new heavy duty
drive dog in the end and the nice bead blasting, I think he is good also
at blackening the corroded metal fasteners.

Image


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 7:27 am 
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Well It seems the distributor was the source of the rough running and erratic tachometer signal. I got a used unit from a member on the forum and put that in and the car runs great. Fainya should be sending me my rebuilt unit this week so Ill put that one in and have a spare.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:25 am 
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Location: columbus, ohio
fainya is the master when it comes to rebuilds for our distributors.

i recommend having him service any distributor that has the years and mileage we have on our cars.

bolting on one of his service rebuilds takes care of a multitude of driveability issues.

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1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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