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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:33 pm 
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Location: St.Thomas
I know nothing about T3 Motors as they weren't an option in my country. But class regs state 1198cc(max) turbo, So i'm considering using a T3 or K12A engine over a N/A Gti and looking for 160-180hp at the flywheel.

Is it possible?

Thanks for your time.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:13 pm 
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If you're allowed upto 1198cc + turbo, I'm presuming under 2L class, I would either destroke the g13b or import a g10b (4 cyl, 72mm bore, 68mm stroke) from Australia or India, the twin cam head bolts on and I would bore the g10b out to use cultus pistons, the advantage of using the 4 cyl block is the equal length driveshafts.

You might want to talk to DMWdave since he has just destroked his g13b to fit inside the 2L class, he can probably supply you with a kit of crank and rods since he knows what he is doing.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:31 pm 
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Sorry re read the ASR, class is limited to 1176cc and 3 valves per cylinder max. or under 2lt grp is for 8v valves 16v run in a higher group with 2.3 8v.

Is this fact or fiction MTM is claiming 185 whp from there 3 banger, im only after about 160whp.
http://www.automotofoto.net/tag/swift/

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 7:34 pm 
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Its the fact. I've seen dyno sheet when the car was making "only" 168whp and that was before latest round of mods. Since then I see he has all new intake , exhaust , turbo , cooling system and even new transmission.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:26 am 
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G16B_Sedan wrote:
Sorry re read the ASR, class is limited to 1176cc and 3 valves per cylinder max. or under 2lt grp is for 8v valves 16v run in a higher group with 2.3 8v.

Is this fact or fiction MTM is claiming 185 whp from there 3 banger, im only after about 160whp.
http://www.automotofoto.net/tag/swift/


Well 3 valves per cylinder is a bit of a party pooper isn't it, guess a 3 banger it is, 200-220hp a litre at the fly is about as much as you get out of these engines and even then you'll probably only get 2 seasons out of such a highly stressed engine.
Call me old and cynical but I don't take much notice of wheel hp figures, wheel dyno figures vary wildly at best and it's very easy to fudge the results with correction factors, ramps angles and gearing, I don't doubt he has 200hp at the fly and a lot more torque than us atmo guys.

For me personally who has been contemplating a small bore T3 for a few years I struggle to get enthused about a 3 cyl in large part due to the sound, the sound of a twin cam wailing away at 8k really does sound so much better.
I will now wait for the stones, knives and flaming arrows to come my way from T3 owners...


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:14 am 
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It's fact. He's a good friend, and I know that car well. He ran a 13 second quarter mile one night when we went to the strip.
You can do it, but it will be a little difficult to drive, and if your tuning is not spot on, you will have problems and break stuff.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:21 pm 
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Dattman wrote:

For me personally who has been contemplating a small bore T3 for a few years I struggle to get enthused about a 3 cyl in large part due to the sound, the sound of a twin cam wailing away at 8k really does sound so much better.
I will now wait for the stones, knives and flaming arrows to come my way from T3 owners...


:lol: No stones or flaming arrows will be hurled at you from my direction :lol:

As someone that owns both I do agree with you on sound but no one can argue with torque of a T3. I see it every time Im in my GTi and my buddy is in his T3. When the clutch is dropped he gets a car length or two on me before I even get into power band. Once Im above 4000rpm and wailing away he is not pulling away any longer but I can't catch up either and thats me rowing through short gear ratios Euro Gti 5 speed and him using regular US issued T3 5speed.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:07 pm 
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so what would be necessary to achieve close to those figures engine wise? And at what psi of boost?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:09 am 
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G16B_Sedan wrote:
so what would be necessary to achieve close to those figures engine wise? And at what psi of boost?


Im guessing that no component was left untouched and some had major re engineering, for that you will need some extraordinary skills, facilities and a nice pile of cash or just large pile of cash.
Best thing to do, if you really want to know, is get on the phone and call Tim at MTmotorsports and find out if he want's to share the details and guesstimate of the cost, since Im sure he already lost count.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:17 pm 
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ok body n suspension are being worked on. decision has been made to race the car in under 1600cc class here so it will be aspirated SOHC 16v or 8v havent decided what cc's to build on as yet.
1.3 16v
840 kg Circuit
1.3/1.6 16v
880 kg Tarmac Sprints(min weight for 1.6)

1.3 8v
820 kg circuit
1.3/1.6 8v
800 kg tarmac sprints(min weight for 1.6)

1.6 8v
925kgs Circuit
1.6 16v
955kgs Circuit.

With the weight penalties the 1.3. 8v would be the better option but i think i can get more power from the sohc 16v to compensate for the little extra weight.

p.s can this be moved to the correct section?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:30 pm 
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i recommend g13 with 16v... it has good intake and header design over gti.... IF N/A... IF turbo then gti...

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:37 pm 
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CMA wrote:
i recommend g13 with 16v... it has good intake and header design over gti.... IF N/A... IF turbo then gti...


It sounds like you know your stuff, what's the difference between a g13 with 16v and a gti? I'm asking because I've decided I want to put a 1.3 litre DOHC with turbocharging into one of my Mk1 G10Ts, if I can find someone who will do it for a price I can afford, and I don't really know what all this G13b, G13bb, and G13gti stuff is all about.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:05 pm 
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nope just read other threads.. i believe its common threads...

gti is dohc but old design..
1.3 16v is sohc and new design...

installing gti turbo into mk1 is a lot of work...

if you are on the budget then go with 1.3 16v with some goodies (mainly 3tech performance products)...

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:08 pm 
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^^^ thanks, I'll look into it. Some of the old designs are better. The head on my '87 and '88 turbos is better than the head on post 1989 turbos because when GM combined with Suzuki to form the CAMI joint venture they replaced the good '87 and '88 heads with a cheaper to build and inferior design. I have that 16valve 1.3 in my 98 sedan and its a good engine but that sedan weighs 500 more pounds than a MK1 so I want to put a 1.3 DOHC turbo engine into my mark 1. I want good parts though because its a lot of work, so I don't want to do all the work just to put in an engine which is just 300 cubic centimeters bigger. I want it to be much faster accelerating and much more powerful, but still use it as a daily driver.


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