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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 5:11 pm 
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I just noticed my throttle is not making contact with the factory set screw. After checking for anything holding it up I compaired it to an extra I have and it's about 1/8" in further than the other one.
So now what?
Can I reset it , or should I change the throttle valve body to the one that is not tampered with?
What are the signs or symptoms of it being screwed in too far?
Thank you in advance
Edd

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 6:00 pm 
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Just readjust it and carry on. All it might do is mess with your idle speed if it's wrong.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 6:15 pm 
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Adjust your timing to factory setting of 6 degrees, and adjust you idle screw until your idle rpm settles at the factory idle of 850 to 900 I forget the exact rpm. That's what I did with mine and it worked. That is assuming that everything else is setup up and running correctly

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89 Swift gti
Modified B16 P29 75mm pistons,13:1CR, cultus intake, genie header, genie exhaust, 3tech head, 3tech 222/365 cams, 3tech UD pulley, megasquirt 2.0, 60mm throttle body, Aluminum flywheel


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 6:38 pm 
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I wish I could. I'm running it in a Drakart single seat dune buggy and have yet to find the distributor port. It was a custom install. I guess I could check the wiring diagram and find the connections on the computer possibly. I've set the timing by ear. I know I'm gonna catch a lot of hell for that but it is what it is. Everything is running great I've changed just about every thing on the motor to get it that way though. I appreciate all the insight and suggestions
Edd

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 6:42 pm 
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I'll let you in on my little secret: I only ever set the timing by ear. I suppose you could damage something that way, but I seriously doubt it.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:31 pm 
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sorry what do you mean by distributor port? Do you have a timing cover on?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:57 am 
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From my understanding there is suppose to be an electrical plug which u jump one connection to the other in order to disable electronic advance to set the timing on the 87 Sprint. I may have the details wrong but that's the jist of it.
As a side note I've been timing cars by ear for 25 years but be aware if you have never done it before it can damage something if you get it way off in either direction.
I listen for the sounds in the engine as well as how quick it catches when starting it.
Since I'm not alone in this practice and since no one has laughed me off the board I'm gonna roll with it and just adjust the screw out until it touched the throttle plate.
I'm thankful for every one on the board. All of you have been helpful to me one way or another with this project weather u know it or not. Edd

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 1:50 am 
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the biggest indication of misadjustment of the throttle plate stop is that the throttle plate itself can bind in the throttle body's bore.

look at where the throttle plate (butterfly) operates within the throttle body's throat and inspect it for signs of scuffing. the brass throttle plate will mark the aluminum in the bore if it is out of adjustment.

readjust the throttle stop screw so that the throttle plate does not contact the bore walls. :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:49 pm 
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Quote:
I just noticed my throttle is not making contact with the factory set screw. After checking for anything holding it up I compaired it to an extra I have and it's about 1/8" in further than the other one.
So now what?
Can I reset it , or should I change the throttle valve body to the one that is not tampered with?
What are the signs or symptoms of it being screwed in too far?
Thank you in advance
Edd


Take a close look at your throttle body with the butterfly open.
You will see that in front of the butterfly valve, the bore is precisely machined.
At the end of the machined area, the diameter increases slightly
and you will see some holes (vacuum orifices).
There is also a slight lip where the machining ends and the bore diameter increases.
Attachment:
TBOPEN.jpg
TBOPEN.jpg [ 195.85 KIB | Viewed 3154 times ]


So you basically want the butterfly plate fully closed. Here you can see where it's
almost closed, just about to move in front of the vacuum ports.
Attachment:
TBBARELYOPEN.jpg
TBBARELYOPEN.jpg [ 249.99 KIB | Viewed 3154 times ]


Now in this position, it is fully closed and just in front of the vacuum ports, and
resting against the lip of where the machined bore begins. It is at this point
where you want to adjust the throttle stop screw to maintain this position when
there is no tension on the accelerator. It should also be noted that there should be
several millimeters of play in the throttle cable when the accelerator is at rest
and the throttle plate is resting against the throttle stop screw.
When you are idling, the throttle plate will be fully closed and vacuum will be
present in the ports. If you look at the backside of the throttle plate, you will
see it is machined thinner in the bottom area so that when it is fully closed,
it does not block off the vacuum ports in the bottom of the TB bore.
Since the throttle plate is fully closed, your idle speed will be adjusted using
the idle air bypass screw on the top of the throttle plate assembly.
Attachment:
TBCLOSED.jpg
TBCLOSED.jpg [ 253.27 KIB | Viewed 3154 times ]


Hope that clears things up for you.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:12 pm 
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Quote:
Adjust your timing to factory setting of 6 degrees


Base timing on 87 T3 is 8*

Quote:
I've set the timing by ear

This can be an effective method on these cars if you know how to listen,
but does not work when you go in for smog check.

Quote:
have yet to find the distributor port.

You are running the OE T3 Dual vacuum advance distributor?
I will assume you are, and also assume you are running the ECM from the 87 sprint turbo.
Here's the vacuum diagram which shows all vacuum lines.
Image


Quote:
From my understanding there is suppose to be an electrical plug which u jump one connection to the other in order to disable electronic advance to set the timing on the 87 Sprint

Nope, disconnect the distributor vacuum and plug lines to set the base timing.
Reconnect hoses and check timing. It's as easy as that. (idle speed, no electrical accessories running)
Image


So here's a reply I had archived which should help you set the timing on your motor:
Quote:
Timing should be 12*, base timing should be 8*.

To set the base timing, ensure that the idle is 750rpm, the vacuum hoses
have been removed and plugged (or pinched securely) and that no electrical
accessories are on (which raises the idle to compensate for electrical loads).

Adjust timing, restore vacuum and re-check to see if timing is now at 12*,
which it would be if your distributor was in perfect working order, but at this
point It's highly unlikely your distributor components are functioning as well
as the day your car rolled off the assembly line.

The centrifugal advance, which advances timing based on engine RPM is
usually locked up. It is common for the springs to break and get pulverized
in the rotating components. The lubricating grease on the distributor shaft which
allows the centrifugal (mechanical advance) to move has likely dried up and
is now functioning as an adhesive, locking the mechanism in an advanced
position.

Our distributors have a dual diaphragm vacuum advance mechanism which
advances the timing under vacuum conditions and retards the timing
during periods of boost. In order for this component to function correctly,
the vacuum lines need to be intact and routed correctly, the diaphragms
need to be intact and the plate inside the distributor which rotates
from the action of the arm connected to the diaphragm needs to move
freely. This plate rotates on a large circumferential bearing, that has
exposed little tiny ball bearings that tend to get gummed due to
years of service, lack of lubrication (factory lube has long since dried up)
and rust/oxidation issues.

In addition to the mechanical & vacuum advance, our cars have a
transistorized dual circuit module which can retard timing as much
as 12* in proportion to any detectable engine knock.
The knock device/ignitor generates the spark signal and detects
pre-ignition (knock). If it detects any knock then it will retard
the timing until such a time the knock is not detected, then will
restore the timing to previous setting. This is mainly a safety
feature to protect the engine from damage.

For performance, you would tend to go with advanced timing up
until the point you experience any detonation, then back it off
slightly.

The quality of fuel and octane rating (octane rating is the measurement
of anti knock properties in your gas) can affect how much advance
timing you can run. If you run a low octane fuel and experience
detonation, your knock sensor will tend to run the timing retarded.

Furthermore, if you have had your engine rebuilt and lowered your
compression ratio, you may need additional timing over and above
the OE specs.

My advice to you would be to start with the 12* timing.
Due to the operating conditions of your timing components,
you may need to compensate by adjusting your timing after
you initially set it, either advancing or retarding until you
find the point at which you think it runs best overall. After you
set it initially, scribe a visible line near the bolt for reference.
This way you have a starting point and a home at which you
can return the setting to and start over if you find your
adjustments netting poor results.

Short of a full distributor overhaul and dyno testing,
this should get you some satisfactory results.


Attachments:
87T3Vacuum.jpg [245.14 KIB]
Not downloaded yet
87T3HOODSTICKER.jpg [287.61 KIB]
Not downloaded yet
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:54 am 
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That's basically what I did. I could feel the throttle plate making contact with the throttle bore and just adjusted the screw while working the throttle by hand until it felt smooth.
Thanks again Edd

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:06 am 
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Location: United States
Awesome
I don't know how I missed the information on timing. My vacuume advance was found to have a hole ( the cause of a vacuume leak for a long time I'm assuming). I think the only thing that saved the motor was a bad temp control switch which was making the engine run rich all the time.
When removing a replacement vacuume advance unit from another distributor I saw exactly what you were referring to as smashed springs. It was gummed up with metal.
I will go out there today and lube it as well as adjust it according to the above instructions.
I wish I could post some pics but it tells me the size or something like that is too large. Iam able to post them to other dune buggy sites but not sure what I need to do to get them on here.
This engine in an 800lb buggy with 17" of supension travel is just awesome.
Edd

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:08 am 
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Posts: 1170
Location: So Cal, USA
I believe you can still get a free photobucket account
(there are now countless other image hosting sites)

Just upload your pics there, then use the IMG link.
(it gives you 5 links when you upload the pics,
Email, Direct, HTML, HTML thumb & IMG)

Just copy & paste the IMG address link right here
with your text replies and it will show the pic.
Be sure to resize your pic before uploading.

Yup, TS only allowed me to upload the 3 TB pics before
everything else turned to attachments. So I hosted the
the Vacuum diagrams with my ancient photobucket account.
If you click either one of the pics, it will take you straight
to photobucket.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:41 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:43 pm 
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<a href="http://s722.photobucket.com/user/Floridaedd/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpszmefxntw.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww227/Floridaedd/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpszmefxntw.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo image_zpszmefxntw.jpg"/></a>

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:44 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:47 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:48 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:50 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:51 pm 
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