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 Post subject: Igniter in mk2 swap
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2015 10:22 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:23 pm
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Location: SK
How do I splice the igniter in? I don't want to swap the wiring.

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Igniter in mk2 swap
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 7:21 am 
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This old post will help, but the pics aren't there. Gonna see if I can locate the pics:

http://teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=37486

Edit: fixed one image link, the other image has been lost in a board reboot many years past.


Last edited by CJDavE on Sun May 17, 2015 7:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Igniter in mk2 swap
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 7:30 am 
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Location: columbus, ohio
it's easy on a turbo3. :wink:

the normally aspirated chassis has 2 wires on the coil. one is switched battery positive and the other is chassis ground. both of those run to the ignitor brown/ white and black/ white. brown/ white also runs to the coil negative and black/ white also runs to the coil positive.

the other 2 wires come from the engine harness, orange and yellow. orange is the ignition trigger and yellow is the proving signal which tells the ecu that an ignition event has occurred and also feeds the tachometer.

the master schematic for the mk2 turbo3 comes in handy. cjdave (chris dreyer) used to have it on his server for download.

i see that chris posted while i was typing. :lol:

_________________
1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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 Post subject: Re: Igniter in mk2 swap
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 9:09 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:23 pm
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Location: SK
When I am splicing the orange and yellow together do I attach them on the plug side or the harness side?

And will I have two wires coming off of the each terminal? 2 wires to the t3 igniter, the white ones must be the NA igniter? Do I cut these?

Sorry I am a little confused and I want to be 100% sure before I start cutting my harness


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 Post subject: Re: Igniter in mk2 swap
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 9:20 am 
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a.k.a Bum head
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Location: London, ON
On the engine side of the plug:

Quote:
So you need to remove the large yellow wire (that goes to the injector resistor, I believe) and remove the rubber plug from the NA plug and you need to replace them with the smaller yellow wire and the orange wire (respectively) from the ignitor.


So you won't be splicing wires, you'll be swapping pins in the engine side plug, presuming that you have the entire turbo engine bay wiring harness.

If you must splice, you'll only find both the orange and yellow wires on the ECU side of that plug. The orange wire doesn't exist in the NA wiring.


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 Post subject: Re: Igniter in mk2 swap
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 4:40 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:23 pm
Posts: 143
Location: SK
Thanks for your help, but I am still confused.

Do I unwind the harness from my t3 chassis, and remove the igniter with its 4 wires? Then I pull the orange and yellow out of the round plug on my NA chassis, and replace with orange and yellow igniter wires? Where do the other two igniter wires go? If someone could break this down step by step I would really appreciate it.

I am also wondering, are the fuel pumps a bolt on swap? Same plugs, same shape? Or do I swap the entire fuel tank?

Thanks for the quick responses, I am hoping to have the swap running by the end of next weekend!


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 Post subject: Re: Igniter in mk2 swap
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 6:34 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:23 pm
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Location: SK
Ok I figured the orange and yellow out. Pulled the pins out. Now for the brown and black wires. Do I just cut them and connect them to the coil? Brown is neg, black is pos? And I still connect the coil with the 2 pin connector?


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 Post subject: Re: Igniter in mk2 swap
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 6:37 pm 
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a.k.a Bum head
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Location: London, ON
Coils should be the exact same, so you shouldn't have to switch anything there.


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 Post subject: Re: Igniter in mk2 swap
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 2:22 pm 
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a.k.a Bum head
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Location: London, ON
I'm sorry. I misunderstood what you were asking about the other two wires. Yes. Just connect them to the coil. Preferably with their own ring lugs.

It's been a while and it takes a bit to recall the little details. :oops:


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 Post subject: Re: Igniter in mk2 swap
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 6:35 pm 
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Location: columbus, ohio
the coil wires from the n/a car have to branch to the ignitor which powers it up.

if i recall this correctly, the black/ white wire is switched power and the brown/ white wire is ground.

voltage runs to the coil, through the primary, and the ignitor switches the coil negative to ground to collapse the magnetic field and trigger the coil secondary to create the spark. the orange wire triggers the ignitor to fire the large transistor which conducts to ground making the ground path for the negative side of the coil. the yellow wire just tells the ecu that a spark event has occurred.

the negative side of the coil, conducted to ground through the 3 wire noise suppressor sends a pulse out through the brown wire on the noise suppressor to fire the tach in the dash.

the old wiring harness uses the injector resistor, white wires on a round yellow 2 conductor plug. the turbo3 system doesn't use that at all so i unplug the big aluminum cased resistor mounted on the firewall and use that location to mount the ignitor.

my pics have been massacred by server upgrades but i uploaded the best pic i could find in short order.
Image

don't confuse yourself. :wink: it's only 4 wires and 2 of them, the orange and yellow are straight forward. pull them loose from the engine harness and connect them to the plug for the ignitor. leave the black/ white wire connected to the coil and run another black/ white from the coil positive to the plug for the ignitor. disconnect the brown/ white wire from the original chassis wiring, run a new brown/ white from the ignitor plug to the coil negative and back to the original brown/ white wire.

here's a snip from the turbo3 wiring diagram that shows how simple this is.
Image

_________________
1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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 Post subject: Re: Igniter in mk2 swap
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 8:28 pm 
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Island Inbreeder
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t3 ragtop wrote:
Image

[/img]

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.HAY NOW That looks good.......... I'm gona need a minute
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.
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......jv&s
.
.


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 Post subject: Re: Igniter in mk2 swap
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 5:02 am 
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Suzuki Elder
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Location: columbus, ohio
i painted the ignitor pink just for jardamuth. :-P

_________________
1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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 Post subject: Re: Igniter in mk2 swap
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 9:05 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:23 pm
Posts: 143
Location: SK
Thanks guys. The swap is coming along well, however I have another issue. Where do I hook up the o2 sensor? Coming off the right side of the down pipe, it is a 3 wire sensor with a connector on the end. It was disconnected when I bought the donor car and I can not find the matching connector.


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 Post subject: Re: Igniter in mk2 swap
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 10:23 pm 
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Stock O2 sensor was a 1-wire sensor. I believe the connector was in the wiring harness near the oil pressure sender's wire. You should download the Mk2 wiring diagram. It'll tell you the wire colour. Plus it's just overall helpful if you need to troubleshoot anything else wiring-related.


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 Post subject: Re: Igniter in mk2 swap
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 10:52 pm 
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Location: columbus, ohio
the o2 sensor is a single wire with a single conductor black connector. the wire is in the harness located with the connectors for the temp senders, distributor connection, etc. just under the water neck/ thermostat housing.

the oil pressure switch wire is yellow/ black and it runs in the convoluted tubing that arcs up over the timing cover and towards the front of the engine. it terminates in a single conductor bullet connector and uses a special jumper wire from the pressure switch to the bullet connector running from the front of the engine under the exhaust manifold towards the passenger side where it plugs into the wiring harness.

_________________
1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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 Post subject: Re: Igniter in mk2 swap
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 10:03 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:23 pm
Posts: 143
Location: SK
So that means it is an aftermarket sensor? Can I use the sensor from my NA engine instead?


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 Post subject: Re: Igniter in mk2 swap
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 10:32 am 
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Yes. Same sensor.


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 Post subject: Re: Igniter in mk2 swap
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 7:15 pm 
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Location: SK
Everything is hooked up now, however she won't start. I believe I am not getting any spark. I am testing the terminals on the coil for voltage while cranking the engine and it shows zero volts. I have the ignitor connected, brown/white is connected to coil negative and black/white is connected to the positive terminal.


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 Post subject: Re: Igniter in mk2 swap
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 8:53 pm 
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Did you check all of your connections? My usual culprit was the distributor. You've probably missed one. Also, check your grounds. Do you get any codes?


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 Post subject: Re: Igniter in mk2 swap
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 9:01 pm 
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Location: SK
I found the problem. The camshaft tabs on the distributor snapped right off. Rotor wasn't spinning. I have the distributor apart now but I can't figure out how to remove the broken part


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 Post subject: Re: Igniter in mk2 swap
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 10:11 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:23 pm
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Location: SK
I guess I will have to take the distributors to a shop and have them press the pin out, and swap on the good tabs.

When it is all fixed, how can I tell which way is TDC? I don't want the rotor to be 180* off


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 Post subject: Re: Igniter in mk2 swap
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 10:34 pm 
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I have a distributor left that was working when I pulled it. $10 plus shipling, if you want it.


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 Post subject: Re: Igniter in mk2 swap
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 9:13 am 
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Location: columbus, ohio
if you look closely at the shaft driver's tabs they are cast off center. that means that the tabs only engage the camshaft in one position. the distributor drive is keyed so that it's very difficult to mount 180 degrees out of time.

i say difficult because i have seen them hammered in before. that is usually what snaps off the tabs. :blackeye:

also, to help you in finding another distributor, the mk2 g10t uses the same distributor that was used on the mk3 92 thru 94 1/2 g10 engines. it's not uncommon for a car company to go on to use/ share parts among their production cars. the g10t was a test mule and it helped to shape the technology used in following production models. :wink:

we also have a member, fainya, who rebuilds distributors for our cars to "as new" condition for $40 plus return postage. i have had him rebuild all the distributors i have used for the last 2 years and i highly recommend his work.

_________________
1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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 Post subject: Re: Igniter in mk2 swap
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 9:38 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:23 pm
Posts: 143
Location: SK
Had the distributor "rebuilt" today at my favourite shop, 5 minutes and no charge :)

But she still won't start. I am getting code 42.

When I bought the car i was told the ecu was changed. The ecu that was hooked up to the donor car had a label from "toms foreign auto parts" with "ecu, 1991 metro" and the part number. It is a c2 ecu and it fit the harness just fine. I am assuming that "toms foreign auto parts" had no idea what they were selling.

I am not sure where to go from here


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 Post subject: Re: Igniter in mk2 swap
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 5:01 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:23 pm
Posts: 143
Location: SK
Tracked down the original ecu, and now it only shows code 12. But still no start


I think it is something to do with the igniter. The tachometer does not move when I try to start it.


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