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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:48 am 
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So my fuel tank is located about 4" from the turbo and my exhaust passes within inches of the fuel filler neck. I have made heat shields for the tank and the filler neck. My tank holds about 3 gallons and I figure with all that fuel cycling it was just compounding the heat build up in it.
My solution was to make a small fuel cooler. It mounts about 2' from the fuel Inlet on the engine. I'll insulate the line from the cooler to the engine. I will be sandblasting the coils and need to decide on a grate for it to protect it. It's not done yet it got too humid to do anymore today. May polish the frame but I'm leaning toward painting it. Just the frame not the coils.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:01 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:03 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:06 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 10:29 pm 
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Good idea in theory, wonder how well it works in application?
Would have to test inlet and outlet temp to see if it's practical
or just adding weight. Wonder if this could this be tested with a Harbor Freight
point and shoot surface temp reading gauge?

You run the risk of heating up the fuel as well, kind of like a solar heater.
Lots of surface area on that to collect radiant heat, typically units like
that would be used with a fan..would you have enough direct airflow to
make it effective? An oil cooler, yes as the oil is engine temp (hot), but
curious how it would affect fuel, other than adding a vulnerable spot
prone to fuel leaks if compromised from flying debris..rocks,pebbles,
whatever.
Now keep in mind the tranny coolers in the bottom of the radiators
served dual purpose. Cooled yes, but in colder climates they kept
the oil warm, so something to consider.

Hey it's worth a shot. Cool experiment.
If it were me, I would think a better bang for the buck would be
reducing air inlet temp via larger or better flowing intercooler
or better yet, meth or alcohol injection. Theoretically you could
reduce weight of intercooler and piping and just add water injection,
but the pump weighs a bit and the weight of a gal or so of water/alcohol mix.
There's a trade off for sure, but more effective cooling and additional
benefits with injection.

So there's a direct correlation between inlet air temp.. for every degree
reduced, there is a significant increase in HP. It's why those Honda guys
make 600 HP without grenading. Lots of boost equals detonation,
but water injection dramatically reduces the air inlet temps, and
allows higher boost with less chance of detonation. Combo this
with a massive intercooler with minimal tubing runs and your
on your way to extracting max HP.

Litttle more to it than that, but that's the concept.

Back in the day during X-country desert trips, we'd get vapor lock
due to high temps, where the fuel would atomize from high temp
before it made it down the carburetor in our Toyota Pickups and
Chevy Vega's. Probably not the issue here, if you're going for
performance, then it's about reducing air inlet temp for max gain.

Get a nice Air/Fuel gauge to make sure your have plenty
of fuel under load feeding your motor in the correct ratio
with your desired boost and work on getting the coolest air
coming through your intake for best results.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 9:49 am 
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I appreciate you're insight it gave me some food for thought.
The frame is made out of strong stainless and once a grate is installed it should be pretty well protected.
Air flow back there should be good and I will be adding a scoop on the right side to catch air. I wouldn't do one on the left as that's the side with the exhaust and want to avoid hot air.
My main thought when I did this was the three gallons of gas just circulating over and over and the tank getting heat soaked from the turbo and exhaust. It's never vapor locked on me though.

Intercooler. I have given this a ton of thought and even found one that would work great for me. My issue is I would have to mount it above the engine directly it the line of fire of hot air coming off the radiator. As it is now its under the side panel behind an air scoop. I could double the intercooler size but don't know if the extra cooling would offset the added turbo lag. Off the line power is what I'm looking for. These buggies are geared to hit 120mph but bottom end oomph is what I could always use more of.
My run to the intercooler from the turbo is about 18". From the intercooler to the motor is 36". Mounted above the engine I would have about the same length run due to how I would have to run the hoses. To say my space is limited is an understatement.
When I bought the buggy it had no intercooler at all. Strait from the turbo to the engine is how it was hooked up.
I've considered air to water intercooler but seems like it would add quite a bit of weight which would defeat the purpose. From the factory these buggies weigh about 850lbs. My logic might not be right but it seems like added weight would not be as noticeable In 2000lb car. I will be installing electric power steering in it which will add at least 20lbs so I must keep that in mind when adding weight.
Water injection has also crossed my mind. I first came across this when I was investigating nitrous. I have a nitrous system sitting here that could go right in but the water injection seems to be the preferred method.
I stay in the turbo when I'm driving and think I would have to keep filling it if just hooked up to a window switch. However I'm wondering if I had it hooked up to a switch similar to notorious if that may work? By work I mean would the delay be too long? Would it even be noticeable?
Finding a place to even mount a small water tank may be an issue though.
Edd

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 9:51 am 
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I have a Power Commander Wide Band 2 with LCD screen but dyno jet screwed me so I'm in limbo on it right now.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 12:35 pm 
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I try to go cool as possible. IC's right out in front, it's the first thing the airflow hits
when going down the road. Problem is the turbo lag, I estimated it's an extra
5-6 ' run. But when it kicks in, it's like an afterburner. If I'm moving, it's working.
Probably get a little heat soak when I'm not moving, but if I'm moving then
it's working. Also had to wrap the long tube to keep it cool after it exits the IC
and then runs close to the radiator, as well as put it in front so when I'm moving
the airflow keeps the heat flowing rearward.

Image

The intake side is definately streamlined, with the shortest possible route while still
being functionally efficient as well as cosmetically appealing.

Image

Adding and EBC also provided a means and wastegate settings which can be tweaked to increase
spool up time, but since the turbo setup is bigger and longer, the lag hasn't been eliminated yet.
You just have to make sure your other systems are in check, in other words keeping it a
'well oiled' machine where everything works together. Ultimately it would be nice to have
the initial response like the OE tiny turbo setup provided, but the increased power makes
up for it, so in the mean time you just keep looking for new ways.


As far as the injection setup, you can keep this pretty simple and compact. I have the smallest
nozzle available, estimated good for up to 175-200 hp. You don't use as much as you think,
and it's not always on. This one comes on @ 5 psi, and has a manual overide so I can turn
it off if I'm just cruising. About 64oz. was lasting me days just going to and from work and
the grocery store. Simple mix of isopropyl alcohol and denatured H2O.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 6:34 pm 
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I'm sold on water injection. I have most of the needed items sitting around here except the spray nozzle. I'm gonna wait until I get it going again and get my wideband repaired first but it seems like the ticket.
So is that a oil catch can in line with the valve cover breather? Is that something you would suggest? I've seen them out there but did not know if it was needed or not.
Seems like my want list keeps getting longer. I'm in no hurry though the wrenching and tinkering is therapeutic for me. With out something to occupy my mind I might find my self in a bell tower.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 11:14 pm 
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I have dual oil catch cans, probably don't really need them but over time you
can end up with the inside of your manifold looking like this if you're not
up on your maintenance.

Image


Since I put a lot of love into this rebuild, I figured to try them out since crankcase vapor guts sucked through the
turbo and down the intake as well as via the PCV. Seeing a few teamswifters add them, I wanted a device
that didn't dominate the engine compartment with a minimum of messy tubing.
I had considered using a small air/oil separator used on air compressor lines, but wanted something more robust.
The only drawback of these is the high price at about $100 each.
http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS+Performance+Products/555/52206/10002/-1

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Image

Hopefully keep the freshly cleaned manifold from getting gummed up.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:33 am 
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We sure think alike. Thought of the air line oiler last night. I just happen to have a pile of them but we're a tad bigger than I liked. So I found a pressure regulator with water trap. I removed the internals and opened up the ports inside while retaining the air/oil dam. I flipped the diaphragm so I could still use it as a seal. I cut the top off of the regulator assembly and just need to seal it up with some silicone. I was gonna make a block off plate but liked the original mounting bracket. Of course I did not have any fittings that were the correct size but will pick some up.on second thought I may have some air line fittings that will work.
I took the pic next to the BOV to give some idea of size.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:35 am 
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:55 am 
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Do you think the inside diameter of an airline male fitting is sufficient?

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:03 am 
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So after that I found this one which is smaller and 1/4 the weight. So I'm gonna open up the ports and give it a try. Still wondering about air fittings

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:08 am 
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 5:50 pm 
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Yeah, that's the idea.

It took me 2 trips the the hardware store to get the fittings,
after figuring out how I was gonna mount them.

I'm extremely lucky as we have a fully stocked self serve industrial
hardware store really close to me. You know the place, you've seen
it in your dreams, a place that has anything you could need,
an unbelievable inventory of fasteners & tidbits, allowing you to
buy as little as 1 (one piece) and a staff who believe it is in their job description
to help you find what need.


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