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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:45 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:10 pm
Posts: 27
Location: Santaquin utah
Looking to put a gt25 turbo on my 87 sprint turbo. Any recommendations or suggestions, Im planning on supra injectors, front mount intercooler, a few other nessesary upgrades, and a complete powertrain rebuild, any suggestions on piston up upgrades, valves, camshaft, or so on. I have five years till I get my licence back so my budget is pretty stretched out, I'm looking for the most power possible. May even get a standalone ecu if all else fails

Update: I've sent an email to 3tech inquiring about getting my head done through them with a New cam, does the advanced timing help?

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1987 chevy sprint turbo(white)
15 gallon fuel cell in the back hatch, Inline high pressure fuel pump, boost controller.
Air/fuel gauge, boost gauge, oil pressure gauge, water temp gauge.

SOLD, red 1987 chevy sprint turbo


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 5:18 pm 
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Location: Los Angeles
I dont think the cam gear makes much difference for our 87s
I did his 226/395 cam and love it i commute over 400 miles a week through downtown los angeles traffic and its not bad in stop and go.
Im running a garrett gt1544 turbo i bought new and adapted to my stock exhaust manifold works out great at 15 psi on a full rebuild with 75mm grand vitaras. id imagine the gt25 would be insane on the top end with a big cam but it wouldnt be too great for regular city driving but like you said max horsepower!


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 2:53 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:10 pm
Posts: 27
Location: Santaquin utah
You dont have fuel cut off problems at 15psi? I have been reading on the forum that people have a hard time exceeding 12-14...

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1987 chevy sprint turbo(white)
15 gallon fuel cell in the back hatch, Inline high pressure fuel pump, boost controller.
Air/fuel gauge, boost gauge, oil pressure gauge, water temp gauge.

SOLD, red 1987 chevy sprint turbo


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 3:28 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:46 pm
Posts: 883
Location: Arizona
The biggest obstacle for making more power with Mk1 is factory engine management . If you are not planning to move to stand alone unit you are wasting your time with upgrading everything else. Stock turbo and internals can take whatever stock ECU can dish out ................


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 5:03 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:47 pm
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Location: columbus, ohio
imho, a t25 turbo is too big. it takes a mighty puff of wind to spool that up. :wink:

ditto on engine management. it's nearly impossible to modify injector pulse width to accommodate larger injectors and there's not enough available trim from the o2 sensor to control injectors much larger than the 210cc oem squirters.

also imho, i don't believe that the factory engine management system has enough headroom to support much over 10 or 12 psi in boost. if you produce too much flow, the vaf door blows open and the system goes into over boost mode.

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1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:16 pm 
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Location: So Cal, USA
Sounds like you have plenty of time to do your research.

I don't know much about the GT25, but I installed a KKK04 and
there's plenty of lag, but when it kicks in it's like an afterburner.

That said, there's a big learning curve to modifying these motors right
if you want to retain the stock electronics. If you are competent,
have a thorough understanding of automotive mechanics,
have a good fabricator, patience and some spare change
you can do a lot, if you do it correctly.

It's not that hard to make these cars produce 125whp on up to
say a reasonable limit of 175whp on the stock ECU, maintain
streetability, and make it handle and stop like a mini-go cart
for say around $4-6K. That is a lot for a vehicle you can get
down to 1400 GVW.

Keep us posted on your results.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:53 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:40 pm
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Location: Los Angeles
I have no cut out at 15 psi. The vitara pistons lowered the compression enough where it takes it like a champ before on stock pistons i had a ton of cut out at 10psi(havent had to make any changes to vaf). I bet running something like a megasquirt is pretty amazing since the guys that run it cant even imagine running without it and i dont blame em. For my daily old school fueling tricks get the job done with a healthy a/f and its definitely fun to drive. Also jamalspelling is dead on w the 4-6k figure im at 4500
in just 6 months and id say i need a bit more to get it just where i want it so make sure its something you really want to hang on to. A few more break in miles and maybe i can have some dyno numbers up soon.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 6:06 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:10 pm
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Location: Santaquin utah
Thanks for all the replies/advice, this is my first turbo build so im not to wise yet. Maybe I'll get something to work on on the side and daily drive my sprint until I learn more. I was wondering if the gt25 was to big.. I'll sick with the stock turbo for now. Im thinking just turning up the boost, adding a larger intercooler and aftermarket bov and opening up the exhaust. That should make things a little more fun.

_________________
1987 chevy sprint turbo(white)
15 gallon fuel cell in the back hatch, Inline high pressure fuel pump, boost controller.
Air/fuel gauge, boost gauge, oil pressure gauge, water temp gauge.

SOLD, red 1987 chevy sprint turbo


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:23 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:40 pm
Posts: 50
Location: Los Angeles
Do that and the cts mod with a hobbs switch and youll be good to go. If the car stays healthy then look into a cam to let more of that air into your chambers. I built my motor and bought my turbo out of necessity cause the shaft play was bad in my turbo and my motor let go otherwise id be stock. This was my first turbo car car as well as first build under 8 cylinders definitely interesting but almost more gratifying than big horsepower builds.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:05 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:10 pm
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Location: Santaquin utah
Cts mod? As in coolant temp sensor? I have yet to read our hear about this mod.

_________________
1987 chevy sprint turbo(white)
15 gallon fuel cell in the back hatch, Inline high pressure fuel pump, boost controller.
Air/fuel gauge, boost gauge, oil pressure gauge, water temp gauge.

SOLD, red 1987 chevy sprint turbo


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 5:47 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:10 pm
Posts: 27
Location: Santaquin utah
Ok i had some time to read up on this, basically you add a 5k 1 turn linear potentiometer, which simply increases the resistance making the ecu thing the engine is colder and sends more fuel. And the pressure switch is so you can decide when the potentiometer takes effect, so what psi is recommended? Set it at ten just to avoid cut off or set it for low boost so it gets more fuel during boost? Please correct me if I'm wrong

_________________
1987 chevy sprint turbo(white)
15 gallon fuel cell in the back hatch, Inline high pressure fuel pump, boost controller.
Air/fuel gauge, boost gauge, oil pressure gauge, water temp gauge.

SOLD, red 1987 chevy sprint turbo


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2015 11:51 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:40 pm
Posts: 50
Location: Los Angeles
Yupp thats it i have mine kick in at 10psi might try 5 since the boost hits so quickly. I dont want to take any chances.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 12:11 am 
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Location: So Cal, USA
That's all good, but at WOT all that's out the window.
You get additional fueling regardless of sensor input, and your injectors
mechanically limit the amount of fuel you can supply while utilizing
the stock electronics.
Since these things spool up so fast, you pretty much only need to
worry about fuel supply at WOT.
If you do turbo modifications, the proper way to do it is to use an
accurate A/F gauge to determine if your running lean at your boost
level and control it mechanically by upgrading to the appropriate sized
injector. BTW, stock injectors are 210cc. Upgrading injector size as
a bolt on adjustment may require a trial and error method, as you
measure results under actual conditions under WOT.
Keep in mind the MK1 T3 ECM has a unique feature that does not
allow fuel augmentation under WOT until you have let the motor run
for a preset amount of time, regardless of operating temp.
The period is usually 2-4 minutes until you get additional fuel
enrichment under WOT. If your motor is at operating temp, and
you shut it off and restart, you still have to wait the preset time
until you will get fuel enrichment under load at WOT. Doh!
So basically if you are running low or stock boost settings on
a relatively stock motor, and want to increase fueling you may
want to consider loosening the spring in the VAF to bring on the
additional fueling sooner. This is all good until you experience the
fuel cutout from overboost, usually around 11 psi (10.8 I think to be exact)
but it's really all about the vane position in the VAF which indicates
actual airflow and not necessarily your 'boost psi' because there is no
boost sensor like in a MAP sensor, just airflow indication which is
indicated by the wiper in the airbox vane flow meter.
So understand that, and you will understand manipulating fueling
using mechanical means on the MK1 T3. Also if you plan on adjusting
spring tension in the airbox, these cars do not take to extreme tension
adjustments well, you have to do it gradually.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:08 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:10 pm
Posts: 27
Location: Santaquin utah
So try one turn first? And any suggestions on a fuel pressure regulator? Preferably bolt on I haven't inquired about this yet

_________________
1987 chevy sprint turbo(white)
15 gallon fuel cell in the back hatch, Inline high pressure fuel pump, boost controller.
Air/fuel gauge, boost gauge, oil pressure gauge, water temp gauge.

SOLD, red 1987 chevy sprint turbo


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:05 pm 
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Posts: 1170
Location: So Cal, USA
Turn? No, we're talking notches. Couple clicks at a time.
You want to mark the OE position first because when your hand slips,
the wheel will go into a snap spin and you will need a reference for your
starting point.
Loosen it a couple notches, you'll fool it into thinking there's more airflow
hence more fuel, but you'll also trigger the fuel cut easier.
What you really want is that sweet spot once you get your boost psi
dialed in. Once you get in closed loop, you get massive fueling
at the point where the wiper in the VAF(MAF) reaches the end of
travel just before the point of max travel where it initiates fuel cut.
So let's face it, you're not really worried about the fueling from when
the boost kicks in and starts rising to max boost as it's a relatively
short duration of time, and you can't control that much anyway with
the stock electronics (MS is different story). When you're on the go,
it's pedal to the metal, WOT, it's either balls out or not.
You pretty much want to make sure that the extra fueling kicks
in under load and that you have the tension in the VAF adjusted
just right to avoid fuel cut. Keep in mind these adjustments are
only necessary when modifying airflow for performance and
typical modifications include larger diameter piping, air filter
enhancements, increased boost on OE turbo or increased
boost/airflow due to turbo upgrades, as well as surge tank/intake runner
modification and/or head modification including but not limited to
porting, port matching, valve size replacement.
Usually the aforementioned tweaks require the VAF spring wheel
to be adjusted tighter, maybe 1/2 to 3/4 wheel turn.
All adjustments should be done a few clicks at a time until
things 'settle in'. Adjustments in excess of approx 1/4 turn, may
affect idle and idle A/F ratio. So basically when you tighten up
the vane, you'll restrict the airflow so it won't idle correctly
and will idle lean. At this point you will need to drill out the
factory installed plug on the idle air bypass screw on the VAF
and loosen it up for more airflow to allow for sufficient airflow
to maintain a stable idle, and this is where the O2 sensor comes
in and helps in preventing lean idle conditions.
I think I got that right...

Bolt on FPR? I can't remember, there may have been one swap maybe
from a Mazda? Honda? But pretty much none other than that. Try
the B&M fuel pressure modifier which requires you to slice your diaphram
housing precisely in half, and then bolts onto the butchered remains.
Honestly, after installing that and fine tuning I finally went with the
stock fuel pressure anyway but did upgrade the FP to a Walbro unit
and think I would have been fine with the stock unit as well.

What was most important was the injector sizing, which was determined
by a trial and error basis using a wideband analog A/F gauge to
determine my fueling needs as I built my project car.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:03 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:10 pm
Posts: 27
Location: Santaquin utah
Update, I've installed a boost controller, an air fuel ratio gauge, a boost gauge, oil pressure and temp gauge, turned my boost up to ten psi, and my air fuel reads right on the line of optimal/rich. Huge power gain, next is opening up the exhaust and doing a cts mod and turning up the boost some more! Thanks for all the help. Also after I turned the boost up it kept cutting out at high boost no matter how low I turned my controller, after messing with it for a couple hours I realized my fuel line was corroded and slightly leaking, fixed that and no more problems! (Besides fuel cut above ten psi.

_________________
1987 chevy sprint turbo(white)
15 gallon fuel cell in the back hatch, Inline high pressure fuel pump, boost controller.
Air/fuel gauge, boost gauge, oil pressure gauge, water temp gauge.

SOLD, red 1987 chevy sprint turbo


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:19 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:19 pm
Posts: 344
Location: vancouver island, canada
is it a regular air/fuel gauge or a wideband?? if its not wideband its a waste of money. if your running WOT you want to be around 11.5:1 afr if its only reading optimal/bit rich your way lean because thats 14.7-14:1. if it wont give and actual afr reading you are more or less pissing into the wind. sometimes it will miss other times you get covered in it. same thing that a regular adfr gauge. sometimes it will read correct, other times its way off.

_________________
92 geo metro 1.0L 5 spd. 2 dr Soon to be my turbo swap car. (Dragonfly) sold
91 pontiac firefly, 1.0L 2dr auto. stock. (The crap can) sold
91 chevy sprint. 1.0L 5 spd. My first turbo swap. (Red rocket) now the purple nurple
95 geo metro. 1.3L auto parts car. (Scrap)
91 chevy sprint turbo, blueboy keeping it "stock"


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 7:42 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:10 pm
Posts: 27
Location: Santaquin utah
Just a narrow band for now I don't have a lot of money to put towards the car, I just wanted to get an idea of where I sit. I took it out on the freeway and at wot full boost its in the middle of the rich.

_________________
1987 chevy sprint turbo(white)
15 gallon fuel cell in the back hatch, Inline high pressure fuel pump, boost controller.
Air/fuel gauge, boost gauge, oil pressure gauge, water temp gauge.

SOLD, red 1987 chevy sprint turbo


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:42 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:46 pm
Posts: 804
Location: Great Falls ,Mt.
What year Grand Vitara had 75 mm pistons ? I looked on E-bay and all the piston kits were 83.99 mm.
Never mind that question. I looked up vitara and found all kinds of pistons.

Ken............


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2015 10:36 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:10 pm
Posts: 27
Location: Santaquin utah
http://m.ebay.com/itm?itemId=131579400510
I think these should work, correct me if I'm wrong

_________________
1987 chevy sprint turbo(white)
15 gallon fuel cell in the back hatch, Inline high pressure fuel pump, boost controller.
Air/fuel gauge, boost gauge, oil pressure gauge, water temp gauge.

SOLD, red 1987 chevy sprint turbo


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