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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 5:47 pm 
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I have a pressure switch with micro adjustments from a scientific price of equipment. I plan on setting it to let's say 8psi When I hit 8psi it will activate and open the selonid to activate the waste gate below 8psi and it will open the second selonoid to release the pressure in the wastegate line. The selonoids will be powered with a dual relay,one on the other off and Vic's versa. I will also have a switch hooked up to keep the selonoid open and run with the preset pressure of the waste gate. I'd set it at say about 3psi. If I were to let someone else drive it I could flip the switch and lower the available boost to them.
Also I have no room to safety mount my selonoids in the engine area and was wondering if I could mount it in the cock pit with longer hose and what effect will longer vacuume hoses will have?
I'll post a pic below.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 5:51 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:37 pm 
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Cool, let us know if it works!

Any boost controller should be positioned as close as possible to the turbo for best results.
If it were me, I think I'd prefer an MBC over this method.
Image
Basic, and simple with a minimum of parts to fail. Just periodicall check the device,
clean & lube and make sure the vent hole is clear.

However, I understand the urge to build something and the self satisfaction factor.

So with the MBC, there is a check valve and bleed valve. Under boost, the pressure opens the wastegate
to bleed off excess pressure and prevent overboost. Depending on how stiff you have your spring set,
you will reach your boost setting (some pressure spiking can occur with the MBC) then the pressure overcomes
the check valve and begins to activate the wastegate (typically at a higher boost pressure than the turbo
and wastegate is normally set at) to bleed off boost and prevent overboosting. When you let up off the
throttle, the wastegate slams shut because the boost in the wastegate pressure line is bled off through
the vent in the body of the MBC and the check valve prevents any vacuum leaks during non boost.

I don't quite understand your logic of how this is supposed to work, maybe I'm just not
comprehending correctly.

In any event, you definately want to avoid long runs of vacuum tubing to mount the solenoids in the cockpit.

Now the beauty of an EBC, is that it is electronically controlled by a sensor that monitors boost and
cycles the solenoid very fast to maintain the user inputed boost selection. They typically also double as a boost gauge,
allow quick adjustment from the cockpit, usually have one or more user adjustable preset settings for
on the fly switching (street, race), and precisely control your boost, eliminating any chance of spiking.
In addition, some models have a feature to adjust and decrease spool up time.

Still curious how your contraption will work out.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:46 am 
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Jamal. I've been waiting for you. Thank you.
I'm gonna try to explaine. Vacuume hose comes off the turbo and runs to my adjustable pressure switch.
This switch is hooked up to a relay. When boost reaches my preset level the switch activates the relay trigger and opens the selonoid which activates the waste gate.
When boost level drops the switch triggers the relay the other direction and simotaniously closes the first siolonoid and opens the second which lets out the pressure in the line to the wastegate.
With out this silonoid the pressure would be trapped in the line keeping the waste gate open.
The selonoid would be a dual throw for lack of the correct terminology. When power is applied to the relay trigger it powers one selonoid and when power is removed from the trigger it powers the other.

Now if I have a switch to apply power manually to the relay trigger the main selinoid would stay open allowing the wastegate to operate at the boost level the actuater is adjusted to.
Giving me two separate preset boost levels selectable from a switch and the ability to adjust the max boost from the cockpit as well.
Another method would be to do away with the second bleeder selinoid and install a tee fitting before and after the selinoid and install a one way valve in it so when vacuum is there it will pull the wastegate shut. But not bleed off pressure when in boost.
I personally like the dual selonoids seems like they would "flow" better

Don't care for Manual boost controllers. I like the electric boost controllers but have one big issue. Exposure to the environment. Unless I have one that is totally water proof I will let the magic smoke out eventully( magic smoke is what all electronics operate off of. Let it out and they will not work any more. Try this at home. Hook up a positive wire to a ground and you will see the magic smoke come out of it,caution it will not work anymore)
Thank you for the advice on hose length. I will have to come up with a solution. It will fit but I like to keep my layout where I can get to most things to do with the engine easyly and the location I can put it would block access to other things but that's not a deal breaker.
And yes I like to tinker with things I already have. I have zero dollars in this set up.
Not being funny or demeaning but I can draw out a picture if that helps. It is hard to explaine and even harder to picture if you're not looking at it. Be warned my writing is worse than my grammer.
Thank you Edd


A

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Last edited by FloridaEdd on Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:17 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:56 am 
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For the record if I didn't have these items laying around it would almost be cheaper to buy a used electronic boost controller than purchase all the pieces and parts I'm using separately.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:59 am 
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Yeah, basically I tried the same concept with the MAF where through
a series of relays, the output signal would go through a fixed resistor
at a certain boost point to avoid signaling the fuel cut when the
wiper in the airbox was pegged. It was unsuccessful for what ever
reason, probably the fact I was going off boost psi which in no way
gave a positive indication of wiper position. I abondoned the
project quite hastily after the 1st failed attempt.

This seems like it could work at least in theory,
I'm not so sure how precise it will be, but I'm sure you'll post your results.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:21 am 
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I'm with you in theory it all sounds good. I come up with lots of things that work in theory. I have everything soldered up and wired just need to figure out the install the big question for me was the hose lengths and any obvious reasons why it may not work.
I'm still not driving it yet but as soon as I do I will post my findings. At least it's not a make or break deal. Either it works or it doesn't ,I'm not out anything and will have found a way Not to make a boost controller ,I think a lot will come down to how fast the selonoids and relay can cycle. I'm thinking pretty quick but I will find out.
My new project I'm starting is an electric power steering conversion using a Saturn electric power steering unit and installing a 2:1 steering reduced to reduce my steering wheel travel from lock to lock.
I should be able to do it all for around 300$. I just picked up the steering reducer. When I get to it I will post the project here incase someone is intrested in electric power steering for there ride.
As always you are appreciated
Edd

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:50 am 
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I find your MAF project interesting and would like to explore it more if you don't mind sharing the details with me. I totally grasp how it would work but am lost when you talk resistors. My first thought is to trigger it by a micro switch in the MAF that activates by the fully opened door. This may be the solution to my MAF door flapping too much over rough ground which I belive is making it activate my fuel cut.
It wasn't a failure. You found one way not to do it.
Edd

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:55 am 
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Got me thinking now. Couldent I reduce the travel of the wiper so it never opened all of the way? Or grind the contacts at the end of the wipers path of travel off? Or are there times when it has to read that area on the wiper path?
Or just an external adjustable stop screw for the door to keep it from opening enough to trigger fuel cut off?
Or am I just totally missing something?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:04 am 
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FloridaEdd wrote:
Or just an external adjustable stop screw for the door to keep it from opening enough to trigger fuel cut off?


That's how it's been done before. Just keep in mind you still need to deal with fueling, but now the ECU has no idea how much air is coming into the engine. So you would have to use another mod (perhaps the CTS and Hobbs switch mod) to crudely enrich your AF ratio. And you'll need a wideband before you blow anything up.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:07 am 
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Nope.

Yup.

Nope.

It needs to go in that area for the augmented fueling under load,
which happens in closed loop only, of which the ECM only enters
after a preset amount of time, regardless of operating temp.
(If you have a precise A/F gauge you know what I'm talking about)

I have heard of using an MR2 MAF as a replacement, I have one
just not got there yet. Has to be a specific Toyota MAF/VAF
as most of them have the voltage output in opposite configuration
so the early to mid MR2 has a compatable flow meter.
I have been told it eliminates fuel cut, but no one has ever actually
provided solid proof that fueling is adequate, equal to or better
than OE VAF.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:40 am 
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I believe the MR2 MAF was used in conjunction with larger injectors. I recall the project working, but not exactly as well as it could. At that point I think a standalone would just make more sense, both time and money-wise.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:52 am 
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Ok. I get it now. A stand alone was my first consideration if it really bugs me. Knowing what it is make it less annoying to me but would like to address it one day. I'm waiting on my Dynojet wideband gauge to get here. That's the only reason I am now considering messing with the MAF.
I appreciate the MAF lesson.
Edd

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 6:00 am 
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So for my install this is what I came up with. Made a plexiglass box to house everything. I installed small quick release fittings on the air lines so once installed I can easily remove it to get to other engine components If I need to. This will also protect the selonoids from the elements. Was gonna use black plexiglass but I liked the idea of being able to see inside.
I'm assuming it will be best to locate the electrical relay as close to the selonoids as I can or will it make no difference as fast as electricity travels?
Thanks Edd

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 6:01 am 
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 6:05 am 
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Since the photo I ran the top of the box through a band saw to level it out. Gonna drill and tap some small screws to hold the top and seal it with some silacone.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:07 pm 
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No it will not work. My design requires one selonoid or the other open at all times and they over heat when consistently activated. As in hot enough to burn you.
Back to the drawing board.

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