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Soo I burnt a valve mk1 Turbo
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Author:  87paperchuckerTurbo [ Sat Sep 24, 2016 6:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Soo I burnt a valve mk1 Turbo

Got my car running and drove it about 2000 miles in the first two weeks gave it a hard shift around 6300 rpm's on the onramp and about 5 miles later I had a miss and then a near dead cylinder ran the dry compression test and got 90,90,40 ran wet compression 90,90,45 little change but that's telling me valve I don't have any extra noises that would tell me the cam or valve had let go so I'm thinking burnt valve. Since I'm taking my head off is there any parts that are available to source in 2016 that would fair better when I go to slightly more boost? I'm 100% stock other than my ignition currently machine work is absolutely within the picture as I have done heads before and have a connection at the local machine shop. I've also read about a piston upgrade that is or once was available which I would be interested in. Please pm or reply if you've been down this road before I'm sure myself and a few others would be delighted to know these things.Image

Author:  jaguar,vettes&sprints [ Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Soo I burnt a valve mk1 Turbo

Competent Machine shop for the win.!
.
Congrat and welcome to...... "I burnt a valve in my MK1T Club"
Pictures of said carnage a must
.
.
It that time ...Clean the oil scraper ring glands

.
Still running the stock dual catalitic converters.?
no issues with the Dizzy drive .?
.............................................. must be new
. A/F meter a must.!
dont go crazy with the boost or you'll be asking Santa for a new TURBO
get a cam it makes these little T3 come alive
.........jv&s
.

Author:  87paperchuckerTurbo [ Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Soo I burnt a valve mk1 Turbo

I'm running the front cat to the resonator and have it dumping through a short tail pipe infront of the passenger side tire which pretty quiet until around 3500 rpm's seems to be working well other than the small carbon spot I'm leaving in my driveway where I would park every day. Dizzy is the only thing I haven't had the chance to replace nor refurbish and I'd planned on doing that when I get my wideband reader so I could see what a difference it makes. I've replaced the coil cap rotor wires and plugs as well NGK and Accell also went through and cleaned all connections and grounds. I'm excited as everyone else to see the damage I will post links to the pictures when the time comes but want to keep it "mobile" until I've ran a leak down for good measure and until my landlord goes on vacation, he was less than thrilled when my monstrosity came rolling in on a trailer covered in an inch and a half of Idaho farm dirt. I plan on adding a very small amount of boost 1-2 psi driving the car on any more than that and I'd want a full cage and an eject button. I'll let southworks have a ball with the head and let them know my plans so I can get those two extra angles for heat dissipation. :lol: I'll take the fun part and run through the bottom end.

Author:  JamalSpelling [ Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Soo I burnt a valve mk1 Turbo

You can go stainless on the exhaust side. Last time I checked 3-tech had valves,
a hair larger (or 2mm over which would required reworking the seat a bit
You can have them grind a cam too).

Good news, timing belt & tensionser kits are practically a giveaway on Ebay, stock up.
Timing covers can be had as well at a reasonable offer.

The Vitara piston upgrade turns out to lower compression significantly, creating multiple
issues. I'm investigating custom pistons on the next go around, should I have disposeable income.
And the debate continues on $5 cheap graphite vs. Felpro or the $50 no-blow gasket,
but at $5 you can get a lifetime supply.

At least this will give you a chance to clean things up bit, you will want to ream the carbon out
on the EGR as well as the exhaust manifold. and dis assemble and clean the intake. Now is a good
time to port match the runners on both intake and exhaust, intake manif.-head-exhaust manif.
Shine a light through past the throttle plate, the damage will run from a light deposit of grime
to a heavy coating of crap all through your intake. Get yourself a sheet of gasket paper and you'll
need a razor knife and hole punch too.

For around a C-note, get your fuel injectors rebuilt -- no need to go larger at this point, but
round up good set of injector seals if possible.

And really important, you will want to pull the coolant tube and wire wheel the ends it till you're satisfied
then give it a good coat of rust paint, and let fully cure before you pop a new O-ring on the end, a swipe
of grease will ensure it glides into the freshly dressed receiving end on the back of the water pump mount.
Doing this now is a good investment and can save you major headaches. Yes, you'll probably want to
replace some of the coolant or heater hoses as well when you service the coolant tube.

Also a really good time to check the pre cat to see if it's plugged or needs to be gutted, Cat technology now
is space age now and a new cat will easily compensate for worn or deleted pre cat ensuring you pass
California level stringent emissions tests. You may want to have some good penetrating oil on hand when
you work on the exhaust side, a set of taps will prove invaluable as well as a resource for any replacement
studs or fastening hardware, particularly on the exhast side. This would be the time to remove the turbo
assembly for evaluation, and shore up any loose ends regarding the fasteners.

Good luck finding a Victor Reinz style MLS exhaust gasket, as the normally aspirated gasket is a piss poor
substitute, but you will want to start your hunting now. Fabbing one from a sheet of SS or copper is doable,
but your results will depend on your effort.

Post up some pics!

Author:  87paperchuckerTurbo [ Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Soo I burnt a valve mk1 Turbo

Hopefully today I can get pictures up I have it down to the bare head and intake yet to drop the coolant which is where i stopped where I did. Checked my dist drive and unfortunately it looks (other than being pop metal) good no apparent damage. I read that there was a member that would rebuild these? local shop will do it for 195 but if possible I'd like to keep my funds within the swift community. I'd like to have an in spec distributer and I feel my time is best spent elsewhere. I've done a rough check on the camshaft intake and exaust lift they are matching ( intake matches intake exaust matches exaust). The throttle body and tbtake have pretty even deposites across the three runners so that will be cleaned. I ordered stainless valves and a felpro gasket kit last night along with a few performance goodies I'll install after the car is up and running (boost control ignition cut rev limiter and a hydraulic e brake racing harness's). I checked my injectors and electronically they are sound (doesn't mean they aren't stuck open) I will try to sneak them into the shop so I can do a flow test and service them on my lunch break. I'm saving penny's to get a wideband reader and a megasquirt standalone. Today was my last day on my 7 day a week grind so progress will be much faster. I'm doubtful of ever fixing this issue but I'm throwing it out there my first gear is TOAST. Also if there's anyone on the forums that would like to make or remanufacture my camshaft for something a little more aggressive that is a route I'm considering. I've come to the conclusion that without buying another mk1 turbo car I will never mange to restore the car and my wife would kill me if I brought another car home so I'm going less oem more what the hell was that blur.

-87PCT

Author:  87paperchuckerTurbo [ Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Soo I burnt a valve mk1 Turbo

Cannot get pictures up even trying to use my laptop maybe some day I'll make an album on Flickr and just post a link. Two questions 1) will a felpro non turbo head gasket kit work? part number is either HS 9435 PT or 20458 that's what the parts store gave me want to know if I should take it back. question 2) is this an interference engine? I was able to slide my timing belt off with one finger so jumping time likely occurred. Seems like the deeper I dig into the thing the thicker the grime gets she DIRTY.





Pictures anyone? :D https://flickr.com/photos/146386930@N04 ... 6229624076

Author:  87paperchuckerTurbo [ Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Soo I burnt a valve mk1 Turbo

So head is now off pictures have been put up at the link above no valve damage. More apparent signs of timing jump. Cleaning up the head then taking it into the shop so I can check the deck for flatness test valve springs put new seals and new stainless exaust valves in. Is there any trick to pulling these cam caps? I tried a few wacks with an impact screw driver and they didn't budge I stopped before I broke anything am I being too gentle?.

Author:  jaguar,vettes&sprints [ Sat Nov 12, 2016 11:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Soo I burnt a valve mk1 Turbo

1# 2# look lean
#3 looks like Stuck ring
set the Head (valves up)
pore Gas or light oil in the head Cylinders Like Bowls
enough to cover valves
let it sit few hours if the gas leaks out you can tell if the Valves or sealing
.
.
.
Image

Author:  JamalSpelling [ Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Soo I burnt a valve mk1 Turbo

Nice clutch. :-?

Use a bit, or bolstered screwdriver that fits perfectly,
they should come out. Secure them when you are finished
replacing them, they have a tendency to pop out and gum
things up. I've found them jamming up the rocker springs,
and blocking oil passages.

Attachment:
rcphead2.jpg
rcphead2.jpg [ 173.26 KIB | Viewed 3043 times ]

Author:  87paperchuckerTurbo [ Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Soo I burnt a valve mk1 Turbo

Sad day now that I have the cam and head half clean I see some pretty bad scoring on cam bearings and looks like it's off to the machine shop for me. :( suppose it's time for me to call a buddy over and lift the block out of the car and check the mains.

Author:  87paperchuckerTurbo [ Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Soo I burnt a valve mk1 Turbo

Took the head and cam by the machine shop he checked the head for warpage on the counter and looked at the scoring. He told me it wasn't anything to worry about just something had found its way onto the bearing surface and cut a little grove I suppose I'm just too picky or used to putting in fresh cams. Asked if they could get me some nice stainless exaust valves but they don't deal with many older econo cars so all he could order in would be ferrite I think is what he called it. Waiting on a reply from 3 tech maybe they can help me with getting some nice valves and new head bolts. If anyone else wants to look at the cam wear I posted a picture of the worst spot on the cam and matching surface on the head. The battle rages on :mrgreen:

Author:  JamalSpelling [ Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Soo I burnt a valve mk1 Turbo

It's easy enough to pull the block by hand, it's not that heavy.
It can be a one man job, but a second pair of hands wouldn't hurt.

Author:  87paperchuckerTurbo [ Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Soo I burnt a valve mk1 Turbo

So it is confirmed with photo evidence I burnt an exaust valve :lol:
https://flickr.com/photos/146386930@N04 ... 6229624076

Author:  FloridaEdd [ Wed Nov 23, 2016 5:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Soo I burnt a valve mk1 Turbo

Feels like Deja Vu for me.
I do not have the knowledge of people who have already responded but was in the same boat as you.
Here is what I ended up doing on the advice from this forum.
I used standard size stainless valves as my understanding was larger valves would contact the Pistons if a timing belt broke.
I had my head rebuilt locally and had 3 Tech grind my cam. If doing you're cam get it in the mail ASAP as it may take a bit for them to get enough to do a run. Took almost two months to get mine back but well worth the time and money.
I used felpro head gasket and new felpro head bolts.
I honed my cylinders and was able to just re ring it.
On the cam screws I used a hand held hammer impact to bust them loose with the proper size bit in it they came right out.
I rebuilt my own distributer and if you search distributer rebuild you will see what's involved with it.
I port matched my intake and exhaust and ported and polished it as well.
All builds are different with different obstacles but nothing too challenging.
good luck
Edd

Author:  87paperchuckerTurbo [ Sat Dec 03, 2016 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Soo I burnt a valve mk1 Turbo

Engine is out being soaked with degreaser and hosed before disassembly. Still trying to get my head out to be rebuilt but seems like people are down for the holidays haven't gotten any response. Glad I found a new trans thanks to the friendly folks here without it I'd be replacing clutches monthly. Thanks for the help and advice everyone. :D

Author:  87paperchuckerTurbo [ Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Soo I burnt a valve mk1 Turbo

Time for an update. Been a week or two since any progress has been made got the bottom end clean but wasn't satisfied with the block took it to be hot tanked. Pistons once clean were found to be bad new rings wouldn't have lasted long before I was back in the burnt a valve boat. Somehow my friendly local machine shop found where there is a stockpile of g10T oversized Pistons so they are currently setting me up with a rebore to fit the new Pistons. I'm trying to find an aftermarket exaust manifold for under 300 because the log isn't ideal and is patched with some jb weld. Got some mis matched cold air intake tubing left over from a friends Honda so the next project is going to be the factory air box the limited modifications that can be made. Taking my head to be fixed up if I can make it to the shop before they close while counting my change trying to budget in one of superflys cams. So there it is haven't given up yet eta for a roadbound turbo sprint seems to be the end of February maybe ha. :buzz:

Author:  JamalSpelling [ Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Soo I burnt a valve mk1 Turbo

Quote:
there is a stockpile of g10T oversized Pistons


Any way to find where this stockpile is?

Author:  FloridaEdd [ Wed Jan 25, 2017 5:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Soo I burnt a valve mk1 Turbo

I second that request for info on over size g10 pistons.

Author:  87paperchuckerTurbo [ Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Soo I burnt a valve mk1 Turbo

I third the request because my machine shops supplier lied about what they had these are not factory g10T they are factory mk2 non turbo Pistons :cry: . Oh well knew it was too good to be true. Here's where I need some guidance the machine shop is offering to install oversized valves For me. They found some first generation tracker valves that measure 32.5 mm on the exhaust 36.6 mm on the intake the installed height is the same and they fit my guides. I don't have everything infront of me but I'm guessing I'll need to have larger valve reliefs cut into the Pistons and the seats will need reworked. Is this doable? =) I have a cut up g10 that I was measuring up for reference but My cam is different has this been done before?

Author:  JamalSpelling [ Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Soo I burnt a valve mk1 Turbo

I got some oversize valves from 3Tech, If I recall correctly they were 2.5mm oversize.
I had them installed with new guides and seals, they required seatwork.
When I used them with the Vitara pistons, it created an interference motor.
Not sure if it would make any difference with stock T3 pistons.

Author:  87paperchuckerTurbo [ Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Soo I burnt a valve mk1 Turbo

Thanks for the reassurance JS. So the valve seats are being widened 2.5 mm on the exaust and just over 1 mm on the intake. I have a few more questions for you guys first of all how how much weaker are the rods that are pressed in than the free floating kind held in by c clips that came in my g10T? I have my factory rods without good Pistons hanging here but I have a set of new Pistons and rods that are press in fit here too. I can see that my old rods are much thicker around the crank. The Pistons however look identical other than the fact the wrist pin is pressed in rather than free floating. Im thinking that if they are rigid enough to handle my moderately built application not only would I not be hung up on Pistons but it would save me a little rotational weight. My second question is regarding main bearing clearance the spec I have is .0008-.0015 In. With my new bearings I'm at .002 5 tenthousandths too loose of fit. I'm kind of ocd is this acceptable? My last question is with the increased flow of the head exaust and modded air box would it be defeating the point by keeping my rhb32 turbo and not striving for more than a pound or two more of boost? Thanks again for everyone's help!

Author:  Woodie [ Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Soo I burnt a valve mk1 Turbo

I've heard good engine rebuilders say that the worn old bearings are often better than the new ones.

Author:  JamalSpelling [ Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Soo I burnt a valve mk1 Turbo

If I recall correctly, I only used the larger intake valves as I was not able to find larger exhaust valves, but did upgrade the exhaust valves to stainless.
I had the machine shop install the new guides and do the seatwork to fit the larger valves.

The turbo rods are beefier, the last rebuild I had them shot peened and resized for around $125

Main bearing clearance limit is .0023 so you are pretty much there. There are actually 5 sizes of standard bearings, indicated by different
colors. You should refer to the FSM for bearing selection. The journal diameter is indicated by numbers stamped on the counterweight
of no. 1 Cyl. , use these numbers to determine journal bearing selection. Bearing cap diameter is indicated by letters stamped on the
oil pan mating surface, use these letters to determine bearing cap bearing size. If clearance exceeds the limit, use the next thicker
bearing and recheck. This is all laid out in the FSM.

Got that? Select the journal bearing by reading the number (1,2 or 3) on the No. 1 cyl counterweight, (left to right there are 2 counterweights
for No. 1 cyl, the 1st will have 2 numbers -1st number is journal no. 1, 2nd number is journal no. 2, the second counterweight has 2 numbers-
the 1st number is journal no. 3, the 2nd number is journal no. 4) the numbers for all journal diameter are all contained on only the no. 1 cyl
crank counterweight
. Refer to the FSM and use the chart to select the right size journal bearing.

Then select the cap bearing size by using the letters (A,B or C) which are stamped on the oil pan mating surface.
Left to right, 1st letter is cap #1, etc. Use the chart in FSM to select cap bearing size.

OE turbo is easily good for up to 10 lbs of boost. RHB32 is great, it spools quick and keeps the low RPM performance.
Upgrading to a larger turbo requires additional modifications and a new set of obstacles, as well as fabrication
expenses of a custom exhaust manifold and downpipe tubing. Bigger turbos take longer to spool and will affect
low end performance.

Author:  87paperchuckerTurbo [ Thu Feb 16, 2017 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Soo I burnt a valve mk1 Turbo

Thanks again JS I've selected the proper bearings using the fsm guide or atleast I think I have I've gotten spoiled with OnDemand at my disposal and was trying to read it on my iPhone. The head and camshaft are back in my possession unfortunately I didn't have 3tech fix me up because I'm in a time crunch but the cam has been reground should get the exact specs tomorrow. The head now has first generation tracker valves the seats had enough meat to just widen them without putting in new ones in. I'm going to run the weaker rods and new Pistons despite my concerns, the machine shop is adamant that they will be more than enough for my application, and it will save me rotational weight while not interfering with my compression ratio. Best part of their work in my opinion was getting rid of those god awful cam cap screws with some Allen head screws. Now begins final assembly. Once of course I get an oil pan gasket which has managed to slip my mind until now :huh: . If anyone wants to meet me at Woodburn or PIR this summer let me know and we can have good old fashion fun on the 1/8th and 1/4 mile.

Author:  87paperchuckerTurbo [ Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Soo I burnt a valve mk1 Turbo

Does anyone have or know where to get an oil pickup tube for my three banger? 30 days soaking in Chem dip and hours of purple power scrubbing and I cannot get all of the Carbon deposites out of the screen I don't dare put it on my fresh engine. I've been to every parts store in town and the machine shops are closed weekends I've always replaced the pickup tube water pump and oil pump during rebuilds I'm dumbfounded at my inability to locate one. :oops:

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