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 Post subject: rpm
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 11:33 am 
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Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
i am still confused how to shift the transmission properly to get a good mpg... please discussion about this topic.

i usually shift @ about 3k rpm but
if 4 to 5 @ about 3.7k to 4k rpm because

3 cyc had difficult to push to 110 kph under 3k rpm. ( i mean pass by (sp?) time is so slow

at normal driving at city is usually 2.5k or under without shake the engine.
at highway... i usually get 110 kph at 3.7k to 4k rpm. is it good?

i have stock jdm enigne and tach too.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 11:41 am 
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I went 350 miles on a 10 gal tank of gas in my daily driver (not my swift). The usual is about 300 or so.. All i did was accelerate much slower between shifts, and kept the rpms under 3 grand. Also, i threw it in neutral everytime i hit a steep downhill.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 11:48 am 
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my dad gets about..... 50mpg in summertime when he drives the freeway to work...this is shifting at about 2500 or so, and keeping a smooth 60mph on the freeway...no hard braking, no hard accel.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 11:59 am 
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Coast as much as you can. If I know that I will have to stop, I will coast in 5th gear rather than staying on the gas (if someone is behind me I will stay on the gas a little longer so they won't try and pass and possibly create a dangerous situation). This also helps your brake pads last longer too.
The key to 50mpg is 60mph, flat terrain, and no head wind. If you vary from these 3 it's not gonna happen.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 12:11 pm 
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Install a vacuum guage - I believe most boost guages show vacuum, so those might work - drive to keep the vacuum as high as possible.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 12:45 pm 
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Like I stated in one of the other posts, I try to keep the RPM's up around 3,000 RPM when city driving.

If I am accelerating to 60 MPH from a dead stop, I usually shift around 4500 RPM. Never once do I go WOT. The most I push the throttle is 3/4 and that is not very often. I really don't notice any difference in accleration between 3/4 and WOT.

This style of driving seems to work best for me and the mods that are done to my car.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:00 pm 
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my dad works with the....barely touch the gas.... method...and his way to work is mostly flat, gets windy tho, and has one large hill.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:03 pm 
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Just wanted to add one more thing......

Coasting is key. Make sure you coast in gear as long as possible. It shuts the fuel injector off until about 2,000 RPM. Down shifting and coasting also helps. The longer you can coast in gear above 2,000 RPM the more fuel you are saving.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 2:13 pm 
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Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
i am sorry... what is "coasting"?

hmm about 60% of time at city that i use is netural... and highway is about 30% >.> i think its illegal but who care.

often time, first gear is need more gas compare to second... damn it gaves me a really bad habit... because i usually press same gas input from 1 gear on other gear ( 2 to 5 gears) unlike my mom or bro's car or first gear is easily to move without less gas like reverse the car.

[my point that 1/4 gas input for 2 to 5 gear is completely different than 1 gear ( if i did it then it will stall or choking). so i think its normal.]

m3 is right... 3/4 and whole are same input if you drive above about 40kph... 1/3 and 1/2 is about 30% same

anyway i begin to think of buying a vacuum guage ( is it work for all models? and how hard is it to install?)

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 2:35 pm 
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Coasting is another term for de-accelerating. It is letting off the throttle to slow down. When doing this it is better to de-accelerate in gear with out pushing in the clutch.

Vacuum gauges are universal. They hook up to any manifold vacuum source on the engine.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 2:48 pm 
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My friend, coasting and deaccelerating are two completely different things.

Coasting is free-wheeling - transmission is in neutral or clutch is disengaged, there's no connection between the drive wheels and the engine, engine is at idle - depending on the circumstances, it is dangerous and can be illegal.

Do NOT ever try to coast down a hill or mountain in an attempt to save fuel

Deaccelerating is using the engine compression to slow the vehicle, transmission is in gear and clutch is engaged, throttle is closed, engine is being "over-run" (ie turning at higher rpm than the throttle position would dictate, as determined by the road speed of the vehicle and the gear chosen. Depending on the design of the vehicle fuel system, the engine may (or may not) be burning any more fuel than it would at idle.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 3:07 pm 
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fordem,

Thanks for the clarified description. That is what I was trying to say.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:23 pm 
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Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
i see... that seems coasting is my favorite techinque. :roll:

about "deaccelerating" you mean put lower gear on downhill? is it like engine brake?

thanks for explaining, guys.

ok i tried to expertiment.... i tried to shift to 2 gears when accleration from begin.. its smooth and and try to keep 2k rpm ( or 2.5k rpm) as possible by thought different gears on different speed ( 2nd to 30 kph 3rd to 40 kph... 4th to 55 kph and 5th to 80 kph) i notice a bit that i save a few gas but will test it for a week and get result. ( i did that thought city)

is it okay? ( i will try to start with 3 rd later :roll: )

and last... 140 kph at 4k rpm... is it good? ( drive it at normal... change 3k rpm per a gear) is there a caluclator for rpm ( m3, how do you calucate speed and rpm?)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:32 am 
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CMA wrote:
i see... that seems coasting is my favorite techinque. :roll:

about "deaccelerating" you mean put lower gear on downhill? is it like engine brake?

thanks for explaining, guys.

ok i tried to expertiment.... i tried to shift to 2 gears when accleration from begin.. its smooth and and try to keep 2k rpm ( or 2.5k rpm) as possible by thought different gears on different speed ( 2nd to 30 kph 3rd to 40 kph... 4th to 55 kph and 5th to 80 kph) i notice a bit that i save a few gas but will test it for a week and get result. ( i did that thought city)

is it okay? ( i will try to start with 3 rd later :roll: )


and last... 140 kph at 4k rpm... is it good? ( drive it at normal... change 3k rpm per a gear) is there a caluclator for rpm ( m3, how do you calucate speed and rpm?)


CMA,

I am trying to understand what you said here. They way I read it you are starting out in 2nd gear from a complete stop? If so, this will not give you any better fuel economy. This will only wear out your clutch faster.

As for deacclerating, yes it is engine braking. Just letting off the gas in gear (you don't have to down shift) will turn off the fuel injector until about 2,000 RPM. I know this for sure on my G10 TBI. I don't know if it is the same for other cars.

I calculate RPM and speed using a mathmatical formula based on tire diameter, engine RPM, final drive ratio of the differential, and transmission gear.
140 Kmh=87 MPH
87 MPH @ 4,000 RPM sounds like you have really tall tires or a tall gearing in your transmission.

When it comes to driving habbits for best MPG, simply drive the car normal using minimum amounts of throttle, but enought to accelerate the car. Shift at peak RPMs for the speed you are trying to achieve and deaccelerate as long as possible in gear.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:01 am 
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AFAIK, the fuel injector cut while in gear but applying no throttle applies to the G10T motor as well. My A/F gauge bounces around the lower portion of the bar graph when idling, but when decelerating like described, it doesn't light up any of the lights.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:59 am 
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M3 wrote:
As for deacclerating, yes it is engine braking. Just letting off the gas in gear (you don't have to down shift) will turn off the fuel injector until about 2,000 RPM. I know this for sure on my G10 TBI. I don't know if it is the same for other cars.



its any f.i. car. it is for emmisions purposes.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 12:01 pm 
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I like the KISS principle. I shift when the Green Light with the arrow comes on!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 1:18 pm 
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Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
>> m3 yes what i mean

i see...

eek. start with 2gear and clutch will be wearing off quickly :shock: damn i have to stop to use it... ( but before i notice that towing trucker did that :?)

well i kinda addict it because i notice i get more save gas( two day ago, at abby i fill my tank by 10L for 9 bucks and drive about 35 miles weekdays... so i should get 5 mile per a litre ( 300 miles per 30L) but i still have more gas in my car tank probably... gauge is wrong?! probably not :shock: )

about tires... i have tire size is exactly same your ( as i found out yesterday) -- 155/80r13.

Kento87, green light arrow? what do you mean. i see a green arrow on my gauge but no idea... i think it is that you are on "drive" mode.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 1:51 pm 
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CMA,

The green arrow light is the "shift light". That is the factories way of telling you the most effecient time to up shift.

Your gearing according to your tire size is correct. 4K RPM in 5th gear at 140 KMH = 4.10 Final drive.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 4:51 pm 
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Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
really?! hmm i will try it today... thats so weird i don't notice it. :shock: maybe i low my seat too much ( it is comfortable for my tall (5'-10") :\

about tires so ok it sounds... i don't need to get other better tire. and i don't know much about final gear.

anyway thank you for info, m3

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:59 am 
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db wrote:
I went 350 miles on a 10 gal tank of gas in my daily driver (not my swift). The usual is about 300 or so.. All i did was accelerate much slower between shifts, and kept the rpms under 3 grand. Also, i threw it in neutral everytime i hit a steep downhill.


Its a good tip however when a car is in neutral there is much less control over the vehicle and you are more likely to have an accident!!

Altho i do the same thing!!

Prab

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 1:38 pm 
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There's actually a clause in the Highway Traffic Act(here in Canada) that prohibits coasting in neatral. I ran across it once, years ago, while doing research to fight a traffic ticket.

I don't know why it's there, and I'd be REALLY surprised if anyone has ever been ticketed for it, but nevertheless, it's there.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 2:10 pm 
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how can police caught me if i use netural :huh: i pass by many cops.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:28 pm 
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graymeeguts wrote:
There's actually a clause in the Highway Traffic Act(here in Canada) that prohibits coasting in neatral. I ran across it once, years ago, while doing research to fight a traffic ticket.

I don't know why it's there, and I'd be REALLY surprised if anyone has ever been ticketed for it, but nevertheless, it's there.


It's in there because costing downhill in neutral is dangerous and can get you killed. Most people coasting downhill will attempt to control the speed using the brakes - it causes them to overheat and you end up with no brakes, either because of brake fade from the overheated pads/linings or because you managed to boil the fluid.

Think about it - how much more fuel does your engine use, if you are in L or 2 with your foot off the gas - as compared to having the engine idling in neutral?

CMA wrote:
how can police caught me if i use netural i pass by many cops.


If you're going downhill in neutral, depending on how steep the grade is,, you'll be constantly riding the brake, so it does show - there is a different pattern to the brake lights when compared to a driver going down in low gear.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:49 pm 
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ok one first... why do you quoted at last post?

anyway i think L or 2 without gas ( or engine brake) is not good for engine.

both method are same result.... but i prefer coasting anyway.

nothing is prefect...

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