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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 5:27 am 
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Not to sound stupid,,But I never did it.But NOW I care.I filled up and reset the trip odometer.Right now I have 253 miles and the gas gauge sits above the "E",,But I am still in the "bar"(the half circle that goes from F-E,) i guess you call it.I have a MK2,so you guys know what I am taking about.I am about 1/8 above the black space before the start of the "E".Maybe i am not explaining it right.But if you can understand me,,How many MPG am I at? I will admit,I drove hard(full throttle at times,high revving),and a combo of Interstate/City driving.I am horrible at math :( So whatever the outcome is,,is it good/bad/average?

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 6:31 am 
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It is simple. Write down the odometer milage or rest the trip meter at your next fillup.

Drive until the tane is almost emty. Not very important here but with small tanks and great milage the larger the next fillup the more accurate the reading. Even down to 1/4 tank is fine.

Fill the tank. You now have the total milage that you drove on the amount of gas you just put in and the amount it took to do so.Divide the number of miles by the amount of gas the car used.

Foe instance, you drove 342 miles on 6.23 gallons. Miles divided by gallons and you get 54.98 miles to the gallon! Drinks all around!

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:05 am 
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Well, its not even as complicated as Tominator says. You can get a reliably accurate mpg if you had reset your tripmeter when you filled up your tank. Make sure (to keep the test accurate) that you only fill the tank till the pump stops. Don't try to keep filling afterwards.

So, you now have a full tank and a reset tripmeter. Drive *duh* until you want to fill up on gas (preferably below half a tank). Fill your car up the exact same way, and see how many gallons it takes. Now divide your miles by that many gallons, and voila! MPG!

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:06 am 
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Ummm... dur? Why did I just write the exact same thing as Tom? And why is there no edit button so I don't look like a fool??!

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:57 am 
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yes you are fool :p

i suggest you

when you see (exact as possible) half tank mark ( or e mark for MK3 only... mk2 wont tell you exact e mark)

rest your tripmeter and fill gas about 2.6 gal ( mine is 10L) and drive until you see exact half tank mark... then calcuate x miles/2.6 then times 3 so will give you a rough number of a tank then divide it and give you mpg.

thats what i do.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 11:15 am 
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CMA wrote:
when you see (exact as possible) half tank mark ( or e mark for MK3 only... mk2 wont tell you exact e mark)

rest your tripmeter and fill gas about 2.6 gal ( mine is 10L) and drive until you see exact half tank mark... then calcuate x miles/2.6 then times 3 so will give you a rough number of a tank then divide it and give you mpg.

thats what i do.


you're joking right?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 11:22 am 
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Fill tank and record mileage.

Drive car until it need gas again.

When car needs gas, fill tank again trying to use the same pump at the same station. Record amount of gallons after pumps automatically shuts off.

Record current mileage and subtract from previously recorded mileage. Divide the difference by how many gallons were just pumped to fill the tank.

That is your MPG or fuel economy.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 1:08 pm 
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LooseCannon wrote:
CMA wrote:
when you see (exact as possible) half tank mark ( or e mark for MK3 only... mk2 wont tell you exact e mark)

rest your tripmeter and fill gas about 2.6 gal ( mine is 10L) and drive until you see exact half tank mark... then calcuate x miles/2.6 then times 3 so will give you a rough number of a tank then divide it (total of gas tank ~7.9gal or 30L) and give you mpg.

thats what i do.


you're joking right?


your point is math vs reality... right? i choose math because its quickly to calucate rather than wait until e mark OR i never fill a full tank because high price gas. ( or maybe i am lazy)

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 1:48 pm 
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it's very obvious that you have not chosen reality. :(


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:04 pm 
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wrong with that :? thats impossible to give a precise number ( about +/-5%)... same for reality ( nothing is prefect nor "exactly" same)

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:29 pm 
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true, but trusting a pump where it clicks off is much more accurite than trusting your eye at what & when 1/2 a tank is twice! not to mention your 10L's compaired to most people's 30-40L's.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:35 pm 
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The reality is - the fuel gauge is just not that accurate. Go out to your car and start it and look at the gauge, let it idle for five minutes or so and watch the gauge - does it rise or fall? Mine will typically rise by as much as an eigth of an inch - which reading is correct?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 6:38 pm 
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CMA wrote:
i never fill a full tank because high price gas. ( or maybe i am lazy)


I never get gas until the car is coughing and stumbling around turns, then I fill it up until it's about to run down the side of the fender. Because I'm lazy. I put in ten gallons or more twice a week. If I put in ten liters, I'd have to stop for gas two or three times a day.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 7:35 pm 
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fordem wrote:
The reality is - the fuel gauge is just not that accurate. Go out to your car and start it and look at the gauge, let it idle for five minutes or so and watch the gauge - does it rise or fall? Mine will typically rise by as much as an eigth of an inch - which reading is correct?


thats true but you have to understand/ know what the gauge wants to tell. (use to it) :roll: i have no problem to read it

>> Woodie

10L is enough for 130~150 miles... so about 4~5 days for me:roll: ( 35 miles trip daily

probably depend on your driving time.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 8:30 pm 
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CMA wrote:
thats true but you have to understand/ know what the gauge wants to tell. (use to it) :roll: i have no problem to read it


There's only one thing that needs to be understood - and that is by saying "that's true" you acknowledge that the gas gauge is inaccurate, which is the point I was making.

Any attempt to quantify fuel consumption based on an inaccurate measuring device will obviously be inaccurate - end of discussion, punto finale.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:38 pm 
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oh, you guys argueing over 1/8th of a gallon of gas :lol: jeez if you dont get it exactly correct you could be of 1 or maybe 2 miles per gallon!!! :screwball:

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:54 pm 
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I don't even bother doing the math any more. I almost always fill the tank by the time the needle is around the 'E'.When I do, I look at the trip distance to get an idea of whether I've gotten good mileage or not.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 12:15 am 
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I just figured differently. I filled it up,wrote down the mileage,reset the trip odometer,and drove.Like I said,I am at less than a 1/4 but not totally on "E" . I didnt know about refilling.That sucks,cause I wasnt gonna fill it up for quite some time.She goes into storage here soon. I figured I could do it with what I just did.

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1991 Suzuki Swift GT.
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If my Swift was as fast as Tg or m's car I'd be famous...
My car is a trailer queen 'cause it's too slow to merge safely into traffic


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 8:21 am 
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Lihtan wrote:
I don't even bother doing the math any more. I almost always fill the tank by the time the needle is around the 'E'.When I do, I look at the trip distance to get an idea of whether I've gotten good mileage or not.


This is exactly how I do it :)


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 2:37 pm 
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I like accuracy in recording and reporting gas mileage, so this is what I do personally.

I go to the exact same pump every time, car turned in the same direction each time. I even mark the pavement where my tires are so I will be in the exact same location each time. Not leaning one way during one fill up and leaning the other way on the next. This "lean" factor accounts for many a mileage reporting mistake that most people do not even consider.

I record the current mileage, and then fill up each time to a mark that I put inside the filler tube to be exact on the filling. Record the amount of gas put in the tank.

Then I drive until the tank is as empty as possible before refilling.
I do the math and then take off 1.1 % off the top to account for thermal expansion.
Thermal expansion happens to all vehicles. Almost no one considers this when figuring mileage so their figures are bogus in my opinion.

Sam

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 5:50 pm 
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Sam

Don't you need to make sure the tire pressure is correct, and that you turn the same number of left and right hand turns so that both wheels travel the same distance, in order to even out the compensation by the differential, which is necessary to have the odometer record the mileage accurately?

Please don't forget to make sure your second fill occurs at the same ambient temperature as the first - if not you will have to compensate for expansion of the fuel in the filling station's tanks, this affects the density of the fuel being pumped, which in turn causes the pump to under or over record, introducing additional errors.

Incidentally - if you maintain the fuel at the same temperature, you can ignore the 1.1% adjustment for thermal expansion - the thermal mass of the fuel significantly exceeds that of the tank, and has a stabilizing effect.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 7:08 pm 
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I do the tire thing as you suggest. Keeping them all at 50 psi.

The odometer is not the only measurement device I use as well. I prefer to back up a mileage reading by using a GPS as well. These figures are averaged.

I totally disagree with the thermal stabilizing effect that you mention. My 1.1% expansion constant was derived by months of averaging and I did find inconsistancies with thermal expansion, but averaging is the only way to truely compensate for things and any dedicated researcher will agree with that. I acknowledeged the discrepensies about the different ambient temperatures. That is why I average and the 1.1 % figure is a constant that I use.

Constantly varying amounts of liquid gasoline and a metal gasoline tank do not have the same rate or amount of thermal expansion given the same heat source.

Simply put, the best methodology for accurate mileage reporting would be averaging and the reduction of CV % or the "Coefficient of Variation"

I'm sorry you are offended by a more scientific approach to what has been a hobby of mine for five years running.

I just prefer the more technical approach instead of looking at the odometer and coming up with a figure off the top of my head.
Fuel economy is a little more important to me than it is most people it seems.

Your quote, "Any attempt to quantify fuel consumption based on an inaccurate measuring device will obviously be inaccurate - end of discussion, punto finale." is a statement that holds true in my opinion.


Sam

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:30 pm 
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I trust you have not ignored the known and well documented inaccuracies of the GPS systems? Any error in determining the location of the receiver will of course impact the accuracy of the speed indication, since this is based on change of position with change of time.

Also I never suggested that liquid gasoline and a metal gasoline tank had the same rate or amount of thermal expansion, but rather that the thermal mass of the gasoline being added to the tank, being greater than that of the tank would rapidly bring the tank down to the same temperature, thereby allowing you to ignore the thermal expansion.

From my point of view, trying to calculate accurate (to perhaps more than 1 decimal place) gas mileage figures is an exercise in futility. There are simply too many variables. How much fuel does your engine burn whilst idling at a stop light? How many stoplights are you going to have to stop at whilst on a grocery run? How heavy is the traffic at that light? (This will determine how many stop cycles you will have to sit through whilst waiting your turn). Even if you never come to a stop, how heavy is the traffic whilst you're driving? (I find that operation below 20 mph, requires me to be constantly shifting gear and this pushes the fuel consumption up). Did you take the wife grocery shopping with you? (the additional weight affects the fuel consumption). Did you have a head wind or a tail wind? (Yes - it does have an effect).

As ridiculous as the questions may seem, they all have an impact - to some extent - on fuel consumption, and yes averaging is the only way to - dare I say it - eliminate them.

Here's a though for you - the gravitation pull of the moon is strong enough to affect the water levels of the oceans - what impact does it have on 1) the rolling resistance of the vehicle and 2) the level of the fuel in the tank?


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