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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:41 pm 
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I would like to read up on converting a gas vehicle to electric. If I can find a forum as good as this one that deals with electics it would be pretty interesting.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:34 pm 
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Dude are you kidding me! I'm converting my other car (Honda) into an electric car. It's been a slow project for me, but I'm working on it.

Here's some photos for ya.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/geo.html


Here's the discussion...
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/

I'm not that familiar with all the technical stuff, but I might be able to answer some questions.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:42 pm 
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One more
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/451.html


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 4:50 am 
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A quick search on Google:

EV forums:
http://visforvoltage.com/forums/
http://forum.evworld.com/phpBB2/index.php

Conversion info:
http://www.evsupersite.net
http://www.jerryrig.com/convert/
http://www.evconvert.com/
http://www.austinev.org/evinfo/build/index.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle_conversion
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle_conversion
http://greenplanet3.org/ev/
http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/Welcome.html
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/build.html
http://www.evadc.org/build_an_ev.html
http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/main2.htm

Misc:
http://www.evfinder.com
http://www.nedra.com/
http://www.suckamps.com/

Moved to Fuel Economy

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 9:53 am 
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joe, whatever forum you end up using, it would be very cool if you posted back here with progress reports. i think plenty of folks here would like to follow a suzukiclone conversion. (is that what you're planning to convert?)

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 3:16 pm 
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Does anybody know a good Electric Vehicle forum?


You'd first need to find a 'good' electric vehicle! :-P


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 12:06 am 
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Tominator wrote:
You'd first need to find a 'good' electric vehicle! :-P

There are plenty of good things about electric vehicles:
• Efficiency. 85% of it's energy goes into propelling the vehicle. This is an enormously better use of energy than the internal combustion engine which at best, only makes use of 30% of it's energy. The torque curve on electric motors is actually more favorable for propelling vehicles than gasoline engines are. EVs have issues with battery bank energy density, but newer battery chemistries are now capable of making truly practical electric vehicles.

• Flexible and renewable enery sources. Electricity can be obtained from your local power grid, generated yourself from wind or solar, or even in a last ditch effort retrieved from a gasoline generator. It's considerably easier to generate electricity than try to refine your own fuel. Electricity is cheaper than gas. It doesn't consuming a dwindling non-renewable resource (oil ). It's possible to make electricity in the complete absence of fossil fuels.

• Environmental sensitivity. How would you feel if every person that visited your house used your living room floor as a toilet? Would you let your family live in house contaminated like that? Every day that passes, we continue to poison the home we all live on. People have already been dying for years now because of air borne pollution. How many people have to die before we stop? An electric vehicle gives you an alternative that allows you to minimize the damage you cause to the environment.

EV threads:
http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?t=12524
http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?t=13741
http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?t=18460

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 5:51 am 
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Electricity can be generated cleanly, but usually is not. There are quite a few cars available now which are classified zero emissions because they produce less pollutants than would be produced to power an electric car.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 8:26 am 
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The environment in the US is getting cleaner. Take your Liberal rubbish to China and the developing 3rd world.

Energy isn't free. It takes an infrastructure to support them. Every electric car ever made was a failure...the reason? Once meeting all safety regulations and large enough to be practical, they have a range any bicylist could beat on one leg! :-P

Another thing to consider is that it takes about the same amount of energy and the pollution that produces to manufacture an automobile as the energy it uses in it's lifetime to propel it down the highway. The result, if we went headlong into replacing our gas powered cars with so-called hybrid or electric cars, would be us throwing away the energy that produced the car.

By keeping up and older car, like a swift or Metro for instance, you are indeed saving the environment from the pollution produced when manfacturing newer cars. This can be argued as being 'greener' that any of the hybrid or the fuel cell cars on the horizon. Their cost of ownership and prive of upkeep will probably be higher than their gas/giesel powered competition.

The dynamics are complicated and far reaching and there is no easy answer, but the advantages are often spoken of with the negatives neglected by those pushing the technology..

:roll:


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 2:43 pm 
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Did every one see the link that Lithan put up that goes to the Turn Key metro? That guy made it with no motor control! you use clutch and a contactor. If I do something it cant be a $7000 kit but I think I can come up with some thing a little more refined than on/off operation.

The company that I work for is talking about moving at the end of 2006. right now I have a 4.5 mile commute. If they move it will be more like 10 to 15 miles so I have to take that into consideration.

I just had a really good idea. I could weld the vanes together in a torque converter so it doesn't slip and use an auto instead of a manual. Does anybody have an opinion about that?
The only thing I can think of is it might take a second for the pressure to build up to start from a stop but it might be really cool like it does a neutral drop at every start.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:16 am 
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Woodie wrote:
Electricity can be generated cleanly, but usually is not. There are quite a few cars available now which are classified zero emissions because they produce less pollutants than would be produced to power an electric car.

This is something that needs to be evaluated in every locality. If all your power generation comes from coal, there is little advantage to use that source to power an EV. Where I live, there is a surplus of cheap, clean hydroelectricity. Implementing EVs here would be a very good idea. Partial zero emission vehicles refer to hybrids that spend part of their operating time with the engine off. Zero emission vehicles only refer to like EVs and fuel cell cars that don't expel any pollutants during their operation. The classifications ignore indirect environment effects though. (manufacturing, charging from dirty power, etc)


Tominator wrote:
The environment in the US is getting cleaner. Take your Liberal rubbish to China and the developing 3rd world.

That's an interesting point now that you mention it. North America has 5% of the world's population, yet we consume 25% of the world's resources. How do we plan to accomodate other countries that want the same lifestyle we're accustomed to? There certainly isn't enough to go around.

Tominator wrote:
Energy isn't free. It takes an infrastructure to support them. Every electric car ever made was a failure...the reason? Once meeting all safety regulations and large enough to be practical, they have a range any bicylist could beat on one leg!

The infrastruction to power EVs already exists. It's called the power grid. If you can plug in a block heater, you can charge an EV as well.

EVs were a failure because the manfacturers wanted them to fail. In the California test market for the EV-1, demand was so high, that there was a waiting list of people who wanted to lease the vehicles.

As I've mentioned before modern battery technology does allow for the construction of practical EVs that have useful range. Using lithium ion for the battery pack can give EV ranges that are competitive with IC vehicles. The intended use of the vehicle is important as well. IC vehicles are most efficient if they're used for long distance travel. They cause the most pollution, have the least fuel economy, and cause more wear to the engine when used for city driving. EVs on the other hand excel at city driving. It makes no difference whether you drive a half-block or across town. Hybrids of course try to negate the disadvantages of both technologies.

Tominator wrote:
Another thing to consider is that it takes about the same amount of energy and the pollution that produces to manufacture an automobile as the energy it uses in it's lifetime to propel it down the highway. The result, if we went headlong into replacing our gas powered cars with so-called hybrid or electric cars, would be us throwing away the energy that produced the car.

New cars are still being made, and people are still buying new cars. Auto manufacturing isn't going to stop anytime soon. The best we can hope for is that future models are cleaner burning than earilier models. The mass production of vehicles like hybrids also helps fund continued research into more efficient engine technologies.

Tominator wrote:
By keeping up and older car, like a swift or Metro for instance, you are indeed saving the environment from the pollution produced when manfacturing newer cars. This can be argued as being 'greener' that any of the hybrid or the fuel cell cars on the horizon. Their cost of ownership and prive of upkeep will probably be higher than their gas/giesel powered competition.

The dynamics are complicated and far reaching and there is no easy answer, but the advantages are often spoken of with the negatives neglected by those pushing the technology..

And to finally steer this discussion back onto topic... Older vehicles aren't as clean burning as the new cars that roll out of the factory today. Instead of allowing older cars to continue polluting, they can be converted to cleaner technologies. Whether it's a propane conversion or a full swap to an EV power system, there are methods that the backyard fabricator can do to be a more responsible citizen of this planet, and perhaps save some money at the same time. I do agree with you about the resource consumption of new cars, all I'm saying is that we should also look at extending the environmental benefits of older cars as much as we possibly can.

Joe wrote:
...I just had a really good idea. I could weld the vanes together in a torque converter so it doesn't slip and use an auto instead of a manual. Does anybody have an opinion about that?
The only thing I can think of is it might take a second for the pressure to build up to start from a stop but it might be really cool like it does a neutral drop at every start.

If you have a lock-up torque converter, just leave it in the locked position. Or perhaps just make an adapter that links the crankshaft directly to the input shaft.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 7:41 am 
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Lihtan wrote:

The mass production of vehicles like hybrids also helps fund continued research into more efficient engine technologies.


How do you figure that? The car manufacturers are selling them at cost, trying (and failing) to get them down to a price that makes economic sense. The government is stealing money from me and handing it out to both the manufacturer and consumer as tax incentives to get these things on the road. There's no "windfall profit" to finance anything. It's all hype, the pet rock of the moment. Edmunds just did a detailed cost analysis shich determined that it would take twelve years to realize any savings from a hybrid, and that didn't factor in battery replacement. The environmental impact of ten times the batteries should also be considered.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:56 pm 
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Woodie wrote:
Edmunds just did a detailed cost analysis shich determined that it would take twelve years to realize any savings from a hybrid, and that didn't factor in battery replacement.

Choke, choke... yeah, Woodie, you are right!...choke, choke..

Hybrid is not the cheapest way to go.

However, some of us 'unwashed masses' like clean, fresh, oxygen plentiful air.

I know oxygen is probably habit forming, but its a tough habit to break. :)

Pres


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 3:48 pm 
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Typical so-called environmentalist reply. :wink:

There is no shortage of clean air. If you bozos would not have made it impossible to use the atom to solve many of our energy problems we would not be in this predicament!

China is the world/s largest polluter but they are spending 30 BILLION building nuclear solutions to their booming economy.

France, Japan and others are using newer nuclear tech to insure their futures while the US because of idiots that call themselves 'responsible' have made progress in the US impossible!

The very worst part of this is that because of those 'responsible' citizens, it is US money in the form of imports financing it! :oops:


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 5:38 pm 
I bought my Metro with the intention of converting it to electric. It just didn't work out. I love my Metro but I wish it was an XFi. I keep looking for the necessary electrical components but they are too expensive. I agree there are no good EV forums to be found. I think your best bet is a local EV club. I'm no environmentalist. If you want to save the planet... kill yourself. Actually the planet will be fine it's the people that are at risk.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:37 am 
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Lihtan wrote:
Tominator wrote:
The environment in the US is getting cleaner. Take your Liberal rubbish to China and the developing 3rd world.

That's an interesting point now that you mention it. North America has 5% of the world's population, yet we consume 25% of the world's resources. How do we plan to accomodate other countries that want the same lifestyle we're accustomed to? There certainly isn't enough to go around.


i was browsing around looking for EV forums and this page came up. i had to jump in and make a comment.

the US envirnoment is not getting cleaner. there may be less particulate pollution but CO2 emissions (which are what matter) are increasing. and the fact is that the second largest source of CO2 emissions in the US are from cars (the largest source is coal-fired power stations).

there is no way that the rest of the world can adopt such a high consumption society because it is totally unsustainable. the whole of the western world must jointly and simulatneously take the lead and cut back it's emissions or else we are screwed :(

as for EVs being hampered by range issues and being clunky vehicles, have a look at these.....

http://www.commutercars.com http://www.acpropulsion.com/tzero_pages/tzero_home.htm
http://www.acpropulsion.com/Press%20rel ... errari.htm

and my favourite....

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/previews/5 ... eeler.html :)

the technology is still being developed but there is a very bright future for EVs.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:33 am 
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You are approaching the subject with a very narrow outlook.

Who says there is a limited amount of energy available? We were warned the world would run out of oil 20 years ago and the earth could not sustain 3 billon people. The Russians have drilled 5 miles down and struck oul and also are leading experimentation in synthetic oil. The oceans ar lined with mineral deposites that can produce methane. We've not learned how to tap the sun or make use of nuclear energy bu in a small way. Who says improvements in lifestyle are not sustainable?

In fact the US is building new coal power plants using new technology that has little emissions. One problem is our lack of nuclear energy an dwe need drastic revamping of our laws to allow new power plants using new technology..

There are hundreds of reasons we use the most energy and with an expanding economy and population it will increase.

The US leads the world in technological development and that technology will allow a cleaner environment without restricting personal freedom or TAXING [ spelled KYOTO] our industry for being so successful.

Co2 emissions are another sore point with me, ONE active volcano can puts more pollutants in the atmosphere than all human activities in history yet we are still here! :o


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:54 am 
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there's always plenty of energy potentially available. it's just a question of how you get it and what effect that has on the environment. i see you doubt the evidence for anthropogenic climate change. almost every climatologist is convinced that this is real. there are plenty of scientists who'll say that it's just a natural cycle but most of them aren't climatologists.

personally i'm anti nuclear. i don't feel we have the right to impose thousands of tonnes of high grade nuclear waste on future generations and there are issues about the quantity of easily accessible fuel.

i also disagree with the economic growth at all costs concept. unrestricted capitalism is becoming dangerous imo.

but the main thing is, why should we carry on consuming such spectacular quantities of energy? it's totally unnecessary. there are a hundred different things that individuals can do that would reduce their energy consumption. it's just a question of changing people's mindset. and it's gonna be quite a challenge :)


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 10:00 am 
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If anybodys looking for a new hybrid vehicle, theres lots of discussions on http://www.greenhybrid.com


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:52 pm 
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there's always plenty of energy potentially available. it's just a question of how you get it and what effect that has on the environment.


At least in the US the problem is that ANY impact on the environment negates any benefit in the minds of our Rabid Environmentalist [Communist!] and they have vast amounts of influence on our courts and politicians.



Quote:
i see you doubt the evidence for anthropogenic climate change. almost every climatologist is convinced that this is real. there are plenty of scientists who'll say that it's just a natural cycle but most of them aren't climatologists.




I've never seen this claim substantiated although made time and again. Once the sources of the claim are found they are fount to be, at least in part, funded by the same people described above. There is no factual science linking the activity of humans directly to global climate change.



Quote:
personally i'm anti nuclear. i don't feel we have the right to impose thousands of tonnes of high grade nuclear waste on future generations and there are issues about the quantity of easily accessible fuel.


Modern Fusion power plants only produce low level waste and even the older plants use technology to negate or condense the 'high level' waste. Btw, I was in the business of hauling hazardous waste and have personal knowledge of the incredible safety precautions used. At least in the US we have vaults excavated in solid granite that has been stable for thousands of years. No shortage of space. Technology...



Quote:
i also disagree with the economic growth at all costs concept. unrestricted capitalism is becoming dangerous imo.

but the main thing is, why should we carry on consuming such spectacular quantities of energy? it's totally unnecessary. there are a hundred different things that individuals can do that would reduce their energy consumption. it's just a question of changing people's mindset. and it's gonna be quite a challenge Smile


Define 'spectacular?' I agree with the rest. For myself, I've taken great steps to insulate my budget from the variances of energy cost. That is, reduced my usage as much as possible. I've completely rebuilt my home using many commonly available products. Insulated low 'e' windows. Tyvek house wrap....all electric...except I just converted my dirty wood burning fireplace to a non-vented LP. Yes, there are many things a person can do, but let's educate and not legislate. :D


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:06 am 
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Tominator wrote:
Modern Fusion power plants only produce low level waste..

Wow 'Terminator' you are incredibly knowledgeable!
You not only know about "fusion power plants" but also know what waste they produce.

I don't know of ANY "fusion power plant", anywhere on earth, let alone what is their "waste".

Where do you get your info?

Tominator wrote:
China is the world/s largest polluter..
Also, where do you get that information?

You seem to group anybody you don't agree with as a "communist/environmentalist".
Just the opposite can be the case.
Those societies usually don't have the 'slash & burn' mentality that unbridled capitalism does to maximize the almighty $$.
The "community" (communist?) gets together to decide whats best for all.
-rather than a corporate board having a fiduciary responsibility only to maximize shareholder profit.

Tominator wrote:
If you bozos would not have made it impossible to use the atom...
Most of the atomic hysteria has been self-serving disinformation put forth by the multinational oil corporations.
They don't want energy competition and have killed many people to ensure it.

Of course, all the above is wrong because you know better :)

Hopefully, as you get older and wiser, by reading accurate information, you will become better informed.

Pres


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 8:23 am 
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You offer nothing but attacks yourself and no opinion on the topic.

Fusion power plants exist on paper I never said there were any in operation. The research has been done.

China's coal burning power plants have no environmental restrictions and are the largest air polluter in the world....save Mother Nature.

I remember when the current nuclear power planys were built. The rabid environmentalist challenged every design and building operation in court. This forced so many changes in design during construction they just became too expensive to build.

Disinformation worked, that is true, but why are we still saddled with the laws and polices that prevent building them today?



Quote:
The "community" (communist?) gets together to decide whats best for all.


By that quote I'm guessing you are a Communist? Or are you one of those that believe communism would work...although it's failures are evident. The fact is that your statement has no credibility in history or practice.

Now, take your personal insults and cram them up your board room! :wink:


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:16 am 
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roll on the day we have fusion powerplants. as the saying goes:

"fusion technology is a decade away. it always has been and always will be."

i don't quite agree with that statement but it's not far from the truth...

this is the last i'll say on the matter because we clearly view the world from completely opposite ends of the spectrum.

i would suggest that your energy companies are vastly better resourced financially and politically in washington than the environmental organisations. same goes for ours.

as for spectacular...

the total quantity of pollution, carbon emissions or whatever of a country is irrelevant. what matters is the emissions per head of population.

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/earth/dn8570

the US or europeans have no right to pollute more than anyone else in the world.

contraction and convergence (whereby every person in the world has a quota of energy consumption/emissions)is going to be a phrase you see more and more in the future. call me a communist if you like but i think it's the only way forwards.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:17 pm 
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hey i have an idea!!! lets talk about some electric car forums!!! :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 9:33 am 
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After reading this thread I begin to understand why so many knowlegable people are asking for mental health and mental stability tests for want-to-be candidates for public office...
Helmut


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