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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:46 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:28 am
Posts: 220
Location: Frankfurt Germany
Thanks for the KP, Stupidicus!

Actually the setup is quite simple, but let me rephrase it in an attempt of clarification. Hope its not too wordy, but I want to try making everything perfectly clear:

A second WTS, the same sort as the original one is aditionally installed. It is firmly attached by a metal hose-clamp to the the piece of "pipe" (or rather the WTS- and thermostat housing) that beholds the thermostat and the original WTS. That ensures the additional WTS is always exactly the same temperature as the original one. (This is because the WTS is supposed to give information about temperature of the engine. It obviously will only do that if has good thermal contact.) The connector of the additional WTS is attached to one end of a 500 Ohm resistor. (Every radio-mechanic can sell you one for a few cents. Actually any resistor between 470 and 680 Ohms will be just fine as long as it can handle at least one quarter of one Watt.) The other end of the resistor is attached to the original WTS-wire at the same point where it is attached to the original WTS. (Of course the original WTS remains attached! So let me summarize, the original WTS remains attached to its original wire, and the new additional WTS is also attached to the same wire via the resistor) Since both WTS's are clamped or otherwise firmly attached to the cast aluminium housing, their common ground- (or "earth-"or "chassis-") contact is thereby automatically established.
Sorry I can't post a picture, I don't own a camera...

If someone needs more info on how to do it, do let me know. But I do believe everything has been mentioned with as much detail as possible. How it works and what it does has been posted further up.

Good luck!
Helmut


Last edited by Helmut on Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:26 am, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:04 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:36 pm
Posts: 409
Location: SC
I tried to repost the drawing,but it was "not allowed"...I'll gladly e-mail
it to anyone who needs it,just PM me...Helmut's mod is well worth
exploring!


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:13 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 1:52 pm
Posts: 282
Location: Springville, UT
upload it to your album!! that's allowed. if you want, just email it to me and i'll do it. pm me for my address.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 6:45 pm 
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Location: SC
OK,I put the wiring diagram in my personal gallery.Thanks for the
suggestion!!


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:01 pm 
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Location: Springville, UT
Sweet. Thanks for the effort in making it permanent. Kp for you.

And now so I'm not the guy who just tells everyone to do things and never does them himself, I will link to it so it's visible in the post. :wink:
Image

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 8:26 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:28 am
Posts: 220
Location: Frankfurt Germany
The diagram looks great!
I assume the Gry/Wht wire is the one between the WTS connector(s) and the wire harness. The Grn/Blk would then be the ground(Chassis) wire. On mine, the chassis connection is established differently by means of the metal WTS case being mounted directly onto the motor block which automatically grounds it. Mine deosn't have a seperate ground wire.

The colour code on my Hungarian-made German market MKIII 1996 model is a bit different, but that doesn't matter at all. The principle is identical and the drawing is fine.
Helmut


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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 10:09 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 10:00 pm
Posts: 4
Location: MI
Great Mod!

Would it be possible to make a mod to keep the alternator from
charging at let say over 50% throttle? Thus reducing engine load at take off
and passing, saving gas. Maybe mount a micro switch on the throttle cable?


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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 12:04 pm 
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Location: NC
What an excellent idea. I'm definitely going to try this.

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1995 Metro / G10 / 5spd / 137k miles / 47mpg


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:24 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:28 am
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Location: Frankfurt Germany
May I post an addition to the first post of this thread:

Although the WTS mod is probably one of the best in regards of investment versus return, there is something to observe. (Sorry for not including it in the first post! Wasn't aware of the difference in resistance. The first post is amended/corrected now)

When you add the second WTS, make sure it is of the same type as the original one already installed. This is because the one-wire WTS and the three-wire WTS may have different resistance, and also there seem to be different resistances of identical-looking types. To ensure you've got the correct sort, compare with an Ohm meter when both are at the same room temp. 20% tolerance is acceptable. See the first post of this thread.


Cheers,
Helmut


Last edited by Helmut on Fri Jun 16, 2006 2:56 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:51 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:36 pm
Posts: 409
Location: SC
I am not blessed with Suzuki cars at the junk yards here like many of you
guys are,soo upon looking at a Chevy FSM,I found the WTS on the
injected cars to have a very similar OHM reading to our Suzuki WTS
sensors,I pulled one from a 88 chevy(4.3l)and connector too and used
this as my second WTS as Helmut's plan stated..My thermo is verry
close to the cooling fan turn on temp,so I installed a dash mounted
switch and use the second WTS sensor for starts and warm up only..
Works real well this way!!!


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 3:08 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:28 am
Posts: 220
Location: Frankfurt Germany
Glad you like how it works, KoeGeo!
I am also using one from a completely different GM car, but the main thing is its resistance is the same. Second thing is it can be mounted easily with good thermal contact, so it always is of the same temperature as the original one. The series-resistor's value (see first post) can be anywhere between 100% and 50% of the original WTS at "normal" room temp of 72°F = 21°C. With my WTS that is anywhere between 500 and 250 Ohms. I am actually using 270 Ohms.
Cheers,
Helmut


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 9:10 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:28 am
Posts: 220
Location: Frankfurt Germany
Here is a picture of the WTS mod. This one is in a 1.0L engine. The pic was taken from above the left wheel, general direction is looking towards the distributor.

You may want to note that in this particular case the additional WTS is a 1-wire type, and the original is a 3-wire. (You want to check they have same resistance -+20% at room temp!) Also, look how it is fastened by an additional hose-clamp. The single wire of the 1-wire WTS (yellow) goes through a 250 OHM resistor and connects to the original WTS. In this case, the middle wire of the original 3-wire WTS. On the 1.3L engine the WTS is located under the TB towards the firewall.

Those wanting to do it may want to look at the first post of this thread, and also at the electrical diagram in KoeGeo's personal gallery.

Cheers,
Helmut


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:48 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:48 am
Posts: 124
Location: mid michigan
I've revisited this thread because My car runs so rich when cold that it sometimes smells of raw fuel. I like this mod... Doing the math using these sensor specs ...
F C OHMS
210 99 190
160 71 400
100 38 1250
70 21 2350
40 4 4780
20 -7 8100
0 -18 14,650

Info from 96 Metro FSM-----------



(EDIT: I did the math wrong at first on this post :oops: I treated the 500 ohm resistor as in series with the whole circuit which I noticed to be wrong after I looked at the schematic. I deleted the bad info so it doesn't confuse. At 100f the ecu sees 729 ohms, at 160f it sees 277, and at 210 f it sees 149 ohms. So it never makes it richer than normal, which is good. No need for a switch.)

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jamie
94 geo metro 1.0L 3cyl 5speed, 4 door hatch
best tank, 81.22 U.S. mpg
90 day ave, 69.23 U.S. mpg
longest range on 1 tank, 790 miles
(click below to see more info on my car, including a gas log)
http://www.gassavers.org/garage/view/272


Last edited by jwxr7 on Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:02 am, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:20 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:28 am
Posts: 220
Location: Frankfurt Germany
Jamie,
thats what this mod is all about: reducing unnecessary richness when cold. It also saves a lot of fuel and prolongs the life of both oxygen sensor and catalyst. The resistor limits the effect. The limiting effect is marginal when cold, but starts playing a role when warming up. The larger the resistor (more ohms) the less difference this mod makes when at normal running temp. You may want to try 0.5K (500 Ohms), if thats still too much for you, try 750 Ohms).

Technically, the richness is controlled by the resistance of the WTS. This mod reduces richness because the lower electrical resistance of the modified WTS-assembly tells the ECU the car is warmer than it actually is. Mind you, it should not do this at normal running temperature. That would reduce economy because of advancing timing setting in, so thats where the resistor comes in.

That mod saved me lots of money!
In this country (Uniting States of Europe) gas costs about 1.6 Euro per litre, or 4.5L x 1.6€ = 7.2 Euro/gallon, roughly being
$11.50 per gallon.
Today I have an entirely different car running on propane/butane gas, because its affordable.
Helmut


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:43 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:48 am
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Location: mid michigan
Sorry Helmut, I made an error when I was calculating resistance. I fixed it at the bottom of the post above. I will be trying this mod soon. thanks for the info in this thread and sorry about the mistake :oops: .

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jamie
94 geo metro 1.0L 3cyl 5speed, 4 door hatch
best tank, 81.22 U.S. mpg
90 day ave, 69.23 U.S. mpg
longest range on 1 tank, 790 miles
(click below to see more info on my car, including a gas log)
http://www.gassavers.org/garage/view/272


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 10:10 pm 
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Posts: 93
Location: India
:idea: :idea: why not add a realtime coolant heater which preheats the engine before start thius saving fuel wastages during warm up without mixture being lean and harming the life of the engine. :idea: :idea:

i will take out air heater coil in the AC and attach a heater coil 12V from batt and use this as a real time engine heater.

what do you say ??

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