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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:51 pm 
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Posts: 11
I am a newbie to this list I own 10 89-94 Metros (5 in working condition), one 95 3 cyl Metro and one 98 Swift 4 cyl hatch. None are XFi models. All but two are 5-speeds. I have no interest in performance (I have a modified Turbo Legacy for that) I am partial to the 92-94 4-door "wagons". I am trying to turn a 94 5-speed wagon into a 60mpg car. By that, I mean 60 mpg at 70 mph with the AC on. My 93 base model 2-door gets 50mpg with no special effort and I am hoping that by doing the Somender Singh head grooves, raising compression, installing a milder cam, putting in the tallest final drive possible, increasing the diameter of the tires a bit, adding a front air dam and putting in streamlined headlights, I should be close to that goal.

My first question is simply "Am I nuts?" If so, in what ways?
My second is. Will the 5-speed from an 89-94 1.3 SOHC Suzuki Swift bolt right in? I hear it has the tallest final drive of the bunch. The clutch is different, but I'm hoping I can make it work. (I don't have this tranny)

If it won't fit, will the ring and pinion from that Swift fit in my Metro 5-speed? Could I perform that surgery with the transmission still bolted to the engine? Does anyone have a tranny like that for sale? Does anyone have the tall final drive gears for sale?

About the engine...I have rebuildable longblocks. What are the odds that one will accept new rings and bearings with just a light cylinder honing? What should I watch out for?

I can buy a Japanese Domestic Market JDM engine for $500 in Seattle (300 miles away), but since I need to change the cam, have the head shaved and add the magic grooves, I'm kinda in the damn thing anyway. What would you do, re-ring and bearing the old one of tear apart a "new" JDM engine for $500?

I know the 4-door will get less mpg than the 2-door, but my "flagship must have 4-doors. Has anyone tried anything identical/close to what I propose? Does my formula appear to make sense?

Opinions on those grooves? 1 groove or 3? How deep?

How far should I shave the head? (I'm a cheapest gas kinda guy)

How much timing advance?

Do I want the milder cam?

I welcome input from anyone who knows more about this subject.

Bill Robinson
Spokane WA


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:15 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 2:37 pm
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Location: Columbia,MO
Well I think your goal would be more atainable with a hatchback and a 1.0L. A 4 door is going to weigh more. You have a huge strike against you from the start. You could easily do this with a hatchback, with a wagon will I think you will be lucky to see 40mpg. You should still try doing the aero mods to improve the mileage as much as you can. You might see another 7 mpg just with those mods. Good luck.
Josh

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1993 Geo Metro Hatchback
1996 Impala SS
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:38 am 
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Thanks Josh,

I have a 94 4-door "wagon" that has an automatic transmission and it easily gets 40+ mpg, so I'm hoping that the addition of a 5-speed with taller gears than stock and an ecomo-modded engine will give me a bit more. The wagon is 5" longer, about 65lbs heavier and a tiny bit more square at the hatch than the two-door, but I really need the four doors for practicality. Does anyone have experience with the 1.3 tranny swap. final drive swap or the grooved, shaved, cammed engine trick I want to try?

Bill Robinson


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:30 pm 
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Location: New York State
The 3.52 tranny should just bolt right in. Either clutch/flywheel combo will work.

I wouldn't worry about the "wagon" getting lower mileage, the EPA doesn't have separate numbers for the 3 and 5 door models. I'm guessing there's no difference.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm

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1994 Metro - MPH project (getting a DOHC G13B)
1994 Metro - MPG project (getting an XFi G10)
1992 Swift - Parts car (gone)
1991 Swift - Parts car (gone)
1990 Swift - Parts car
1997 Metro - Parts car (gone)
1993 Metro - Parts car
1989 Swift GTi - Parts car
1998 Metro - Parts car


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:14 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:05 pm
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Thanks for the reply. Did you mate the 1.3 to your stock 1.0 5-speed tranny with no problems? Does anybody have a SOHC 1.3 tranny for sale cheap?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 1:23 am 
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Location: New York State
vultureboy wrote:
Did you mate the 1.3 to your stock 1.0 5-speed tranny with no problems?

No, my Metro was an auto. I swapped in both the 1.3L engine and its 5-speed tranny.

_________________
1994 Metro - MPH project (getting a DOHC G13B)
1994 Metro - MPG project (getting an XFi G10)
1992 Swift - Parts car (gone)
1991 Swift - Parts car (gone)
1990 Swift - Parts car
1997 Metro - Parts car (gone)
1993 Metro - Parts car
1989 Swift GTi - Parts car
1998 Metro - Parts car


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 9:38 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:05 pm
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I have an 89 5-door with an auto that needs to be shifted manually. It has a fresh engine from Japan. How difficult is it to make an automatic Metro a 5-speed. I have parts cars.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:49 am 
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Location: New York State
It's pretty easy with a parts car. I had the two cars sitting side-by-side when I did the swap. Just move the manual parts over! There's some info and pics on my website.

_________________
1994 Metro - MPH project (getting a DOHC G13B)
1994 Metro - MPG project (getting an XFi G10)
1992 Swift - Parts car (gone)
1991 Swift - Parts car (gone)
1990 Swift - Parts car
1997 Metro - Parts car (gone)
1993 Metro - Parts car
1989 Swift GTi - Parts car
1998 Metro - Parts car


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:30 am 
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Posts: 1744
Location: Washington, DC
Any Metro/Swift transmission will bolt right in and work with either clutch/flywheel combination. Would be much simpler to just get taller tires though. 185/60-14s came on the Swift GTI, the same body and frame.

Bearings, rings, and light honing are very reasonable for a 150K engine, the bottom end is very stout. I wouldn't even look at the JDM bottom end, new seals only. Superf1y's economy cam is practically the same thing as an XFI, will give you more torque to match up nicely with the taller gears.

Your goal is going to be a tough one, 70 mph with the A/C on is quite a load.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:40 am 
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Thanks for the info and your opinion Woodie. I am hoping that by doing everything possible to increase the low end torque in the 1.0 engine, it will have enough power to support both the highest final drive possible and then when I see how it does with that and stock tires, I will experiment with taller tire sizes, to make the gearing as tall as is practical. I am trying to avoid fat tires. I am hoping to stay in the realm of 80 series tires, as "pizza cutters" will give me the best mileage. My ultimate tall gearing fantasy is the Swift tranny and 165/80-15 tires. Does anybody know whether these tall skinny tires would fit in the wheel wells of a 94 Metro 5-door? It is a fairly common size (old Beetle, Saab 99, Porsche 914) and cheap to buy.


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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 2:45 pm 
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Location: mid michigan
My 1994 4dr hatchback (5 door or wagon ?) gets more than 60mpg and has for over a year (not with "normal" driving though). With AC and driving 70 mph it wouldn't though. I don't have AC but just driving 70 mph would drop my mileage below 60. check this out if you haven't already http://www.metrompg.com/posts/speed-vs-mpg.htm

I think this body style should be as good as a 2 door IMO. I like it for the room and flexibility. Good luck.

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jamie
94 geo metro 1.0L 3cyl 5speed, 4 door hatch
best tank, 81.22 U.S. mpg
90 day ave, 69.23 U.S. mpg
longest range on 1 tank, 790 miles
(click below to see more info on my car, including a gas log)
http://www.gassavers.org/garage/view/272


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:22 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 31, 2008 3:19 pm
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If you want to put really tall tires on you can do what the 4x4 guy's do, & trim the fenders.
Unless it's e really pristine car.


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