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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:51 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:54 am
Posts: 4
I am new to the forum. It is great to have so many halpfull people as a resource.

I have a 1991 Metro "vert" 1.0 5sp. and am trying to improve mileage. Does anyone know if the gears that advance the valve timing help this? Can one get an "economy" cam? Would an XFI CPU help me at all? I know these things used to be available from 3Tech, but they won't answer emails. Are they no longer in business?

I will keep trying the suggestions I read on here, but any others would be appreciated.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:54 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:20 pm
Posts: 2973
Location: Saskatchewan
3tech is quite in business, superf1y is the guy on here that runs the show. you could get an economy cam cut, or a +10 gear to lower powerband and gain you some torque, or both and youll gain for sure

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1991 Swift GT Build G10 +25 psi + other goodies
1996 Metro Build QR25de swap, still undecided where to take it
the lolcar family


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:05 pm 
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Thanks for the info., swift13b.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 5:37 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2003 4:16 am
Posts: 8033
Location: Ontario, Canada
I answer all emails, except for personal questions, so I'm not sure what happened to yours.

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Contact 3tech: g10pro@rocketmail.com


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 7:00 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2004 4:15 pm
Posts: 3130
Location: Brantford, Ontario, Canada
not to get off topic, but the verts come wih a 4.39 final drive tranny, you might want to grab the tranny out of a metro(3.72 i think) or a swift gt (4.10). that should also help your milage since it wont rev as much
i think it'd only be worth it if you're do a lot of highway driving.

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93 Swift GT White 3Tech cams, Sandro's chip, Lightned flywheel, Genie exhaust, Cultus header, Intrax springs.
08 Civic Wife's car


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 5:43 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2007 4:14 pm
Posts: 556
Location: St-Ours
Woops...... Crnolic these are the numbers:

4.39 - 1.0L garden variety (1995 and up), 13 inch wheels
4.105 - 1.0L garden variety (1989-1994), 12 inch wheels
3.79 - 1.0L XFi (1989-1994), w/12 inch wheels
3.523 - 1.3L SOHC (1989-1994), w/13 inch wheels

I installed the 3.52 final drive WITH an XFi cam in my three banger, 1994 vintage (Espresso Nero).
With no circus type driving (pulse and glide, sticking right in the back of a van....coasting....) but with proper maintenance, I get: 52 US miles to the gallon, 4.5 liters to the hundred or 62 miles to the imperial gallon. Up in tropical Canada, world's second largest oil producer, gas is currently:
$ 6.401 an imperial gallon or $1.41 a liter for regular. $1.46 for super.

I feed super to Espresso Nero and get 630 km for a tankful. If I use regular, I get 550 km.
All in all I get 30-40 FREE km with super when I calculate price difference.
The tires are at 44 lbs, I have comfortable GT seats not the standard light ones that came with the car and, a deflector (not a spoiler) to keep my rear window clean. This costs some , but it's staying. Full racing discs keep turbulence to a minimum. Now that I am satisfied with this fuel and can't get better without sacrificing to safety or comfort, I'll be tanking to the 2/3 mark from now on. carrying gas does weigh you down. I'll be doing better and I'll stop being as paranoid.... I can still compute gas consomption with the trip odometer.

I participate in Ecomodder as well and it's thanks to the tips and suggestions gathered on both these sites that my wallet is healthier.
My XFi cam came from Superfly, the final drive ratio came from Serious GT on the French Canadian site. He will swap for free a good final gear from a 3 banger (4.10) for one from a 4 cyl (3.523).
I sold my original final drive gear set to a Swifter in Holland to be used for drag racing.

Superfly also transformed my cam in my vert to economy mode along with the accompanying gear, but as my vert (Vanilla Latte) is now transformed into a full Turbo from a Firefly, any Swifter who wants it at cost price, is welcome to it or else I will turn it into a lamp.
Toodle-dee-doo-cracker-bits.


Attachments:
Espresso Nero's hubcaps.small.jpg
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 6:02 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:52 am
Posts: 228
Location: Fort Atkinson WI
Damnit I'm getting sick of seeing mint rust free metros! Nice car by the way.

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Just when I thought I was about to get back on my own 2 feet life kicked me in the shorts.

94 GEO METRO PARTS FOR SALE EVERYTHING MUST GO!!!!
94 XFI rust bucket
96 Honda Accord


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 6:12 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2007 4:14 pm
Posts: 556
Location: St-Ours
Thank you very much.

I did not buy it new, but it never slept outside and was stored in the winter. When I got it, 2,5 years ago, I dismantled the inside and outside and shot it with a greasy oily rust preventer.
i'll do it again this summer sometime. Rust never sleeps. Salt doesn't rust out a vehicle, but as it retains water in the nooks and crannies , it has to be washed out.
The ho-hum glass headlights were replaced with the more aerodynamic ones in plastic. I maintain them clear by polishing them with Brasso silver polish.
I also installed a dash gauge with tachometer that confims that at 100km an hour, the engine revs at 2500, instead of 3000.
13 inch wheels were installed instead of the 12, but I kept the rolling diameter the same.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 6:22 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:52 am
Posts: 228
Location: Fort Atkinson WI
Living in the rust belt sucks. I wish I had the cash to go fly down to arizona and pick up another metro. My XFI has too many holes in it I need a cleaner slate to start with.

On another note what kind of gains are people seeing with the +10 cam gear from 3tech on an XFI? I've been debating this. Also how far advanced are people going with the timing? I haven't checked mine yet since purchased :oops: I know I should. I'm at 53.6mpg last tank and i'm looking for cheap ways to get over 55+mpg. (I need justification to get another metro thats rust free =) )

_________________
Just when I thought I was about to get back on my own 2 feet life kicked me in the shorts.

94 GEO METRO PARTS FOR SALE EVERYTHING MUST GO!!!!
94 XFI rust bucket
96 Honda Accord


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 7:05 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2007 4:14 pm
Posts: 556
Location: St-Ours
I think that the XFi cam is already advanced.

You can put taller tires, blow them up to their written maximum pressure, take out the back seats etc. You can go further but then no creature confort will be left.
Let's face it, the electric cars are coming, the air car also. I won't be lining up for the expensive Lotus based electric, an Aptera, probably.
Chavez in Venezuela is selling regular at 3 cents a liter, but I wouldn't want to live there.
Already in my province, you actually see a difference in driving speeds. Coupled with the new stratospheric traffic penalties, people are slowing down. Many over $2000.00 were given.
Driving slower is a very good way to save gas.

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Less IS more.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:13 pm 
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Sad but True...

Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:20 pm
Posts: 2973
Location: Saskatchewan
nice car manutea, personally im not a fan of those smooth hubcaps but I wonder if they really do anything.

Have you tried anything for aero mods? Maybe lower the car an inch, put a lower front bumper on etc?

_________________
1991 Swift GT Build G10 +25 psi + other goodies
1996 Metro Build QR25de swap, still undecided where to take it
the lolcar family


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:41 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 12:27 pm
Posts: 305
Location: Ventura, CA, USA
i know for a fact that those moon disks work. look at every car setting records at boneville. chop your car and lower it. you can take 3-4 inches in a chop. get your hot rod friends over for a beer and hand them a torch and sawzall.

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Want your car pinstriped? http://www.2-stix.com
94' geo 3 cyl 5 speed
98' toyota 4runner
03' toyota tundra
06' crf450


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:47 pm 
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Sad but True...

Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:20 pm
Posts: 2973
Location: Saskatchewan
yeah you do that and youll wreck those struts in no time. Buy good ones or make those phonis, youd rather be over dampened than over sprung

but while we are on this topic, are cut stock springs (say 1" drop) stiffer or softer than your typical 1" drop spring? because I know that the lowering springs (my h&r's anyways) were a shorter spring if you put them side by side, so I dont see the problem if you cut your spring properly, but put shocks in there

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1991 Swift GT Build G10 +25 psi + other goodies
1996 Metro Build QR25de swap, still undecided where to take it
the lolcar family


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:50 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2007 4:14 pm
Posts: 556
Location: St-Ours
Hi there Swift13B !!!!

I only did things that would not cost the savings realised.
I installed Moon discs on my Lumina APV and now she looks very Lunar......I think that I do save something It also prevents frozen snow from packing in the rims and inbalancing them.
Lowering the car on our potatoe field roads is not a good idea. It's a grumpy ride as is. Ditto for putting on a lower bumper to swish the air currents around it.
Espresso Nero, black, is a winter car mostly. Black melts the snow and is warmer. Slush and a low riding car go so well together as you know.
Vanilla Latte, white, reflects the sun and is thus a summer ride. I wanted her to be very economical also........but..........you can't turn down a complete Turbo Firefly with 50 000 miles on the meter........soooooo.......she became a spirited 1/4 Ferrari at very looooooow cost.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:16 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 12:27 pm
Posts: 305
Location: Ventura, CA, USA
the 3-4" chop comes right out of the glass, not the springs.

_________________
Want your car pinstriped? http://www.2-stix.com
94' geo 3 cyl 5 speed
98' toyota 4runner
03' toyota tundra
06' crf450


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:15 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:47 am
Posts: 24
Location: so. in.
Manutea wrote:
Woops...... Crnolic these are the numbers:

4.39 - 1.0L garden variety (1995 and up), 13 inch wheels
4.105 - 1.0L garden variety (1989-1994), 12 inch wheels
3.79 - 1.0L XFi (1989-1994), w/12 inch wheels
3.523 - 1.3L SOHC (1989-1994), w/13 inch wheels

I installed the 3.52 final drive WITH an XFi cam in my three banger, 1994 vintage (Espresso Nero).
With no circus type driving (pulse and glide, sticking right in the back of a van....coasting....) but with proper maintenance, I get: 52 US miles to the gallon, 4.5 liters to the hundred or 62 miles to the imperial gallon. Up in tropical Canada, world's second largest oil producer, gas is currently:
$ 6.401 an imperial gallon or $1.41 a liter for regular. $1.46 for super.

I feed super to Espresso Nero and get 630 km for a tankful. If I use regular, I get 550 km.
All in all I get 30-40 FREE km with super when I calculate price difference.
The tires are at 44 lbs, I have comfortable GT seats not the standard light ones that came with the car and, a deflector (not a spoiler) to keep my rear window clean. This costs some , but it's staying. Full racing discs keep turbulence to a minimum. Now that I am satisfied with this fuel and can't get better without sacrificing to safety or comfort, I'll be tanking to the 2/3 mark from now on. carrying gas does weigh you down. I'll be doing better and I'll stop being as paranoid.... I can still compute gas consomption with the trip odometer.

I participate in Ecomodder as well and it's thanks to the tips and suggestions gathered on both these sites that my wallet is healthier.
My XFi cam came from Superfly, the final drive ratio came from Serious GT on the French Canadian site. He will swap for free a good final gear from a 3 banger (4.10) for one from a 4 cyl (3.523).
I sold my original final drive gear set to a Swifter in Holland to be used for drag racing.

Superfly also transformed my cam in my vert to economy mode along with the accompanying gear, but as my vert (Vanilla Latte) is now transformed into a full Turbo from a Firefly, any Swifter who wants it at cost price, is welcome to it or else I will turn it into a lamp.
Toodle-dee-doo-cracker-bits.


a 2 inch drop would help ,,,whats your in town mpg ??


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:42 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2007 4:14 pm
Posts: 556
Location: St-Ours
In town? This is mixt numbers.

I don't have the foggiest.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:52 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:47 am
Posts: 24
Location: so. in.
Manutea wrote:
In town? This is mixt numbers.

I don't have the foggiest.

32-40 ???


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 12:27 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2007 4:14 pm
Posts: 556
Location: St-Ours
More like 45.

The economy cam makes shifting much earlier possible. It's a perfect match for the 3.53 final drive.

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Less IS more.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:55 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 4:10 am
Posts: 97
Location: Troy, Ohio
Let's keep this to the Posted Topic. Fuel Economy CAM and/OR GEAR ?

Make another posting for Aero Mods.

Anyways......

How well does the +10 GEAR help economy by itself ??

How well does the Economy Cam help by itself ??


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:15 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 4:10 am
Posts: 97
Location: Troy, Ohio
Manutea wrote:
The economy cam makes shifting much earlier possible.
Advancing the cam (via the sprocket) accomplishs the same thing.

Both shift the Torque "Range" down the power band of an engine.

I'm trying to determine if just using a Advance Sprocket by itself would give a substantial increase in Fuel Economy. :huh:

I know both the sprocket/economy cam are optimal, but for those on a tight budget we need to go these least expensive route first. :blackeye:


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