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PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:00 pm 
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Location: Olathe KS
I am going for mileage here, not traction. Our stock wheels are what like 4" wide? Can we get wheels/tires any thinner than that?? I would even go with a solid tire if it were thin enough. Thanks.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:52 pm 
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Get factory donuts,

Put on all 4 corners.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:53 pm 
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:rofl: I think factory are 145r12's? I dont think they make em smaller than that, hell if I HAD to use 12's id be going to 155 or something.

even my 185's on 14's dont hook up, but im guessing you are doing this on a lower powered car for fuel efficiency, less rolling mass?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:11 am 
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Trailer tires? :twisted:
Some people will say you'll die with trailer tires on a car. I don't think that's true, but I have no evidence or experience to back that up. So don't put hard, skinny trailer tires on your car and get better mileage. :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:25 pm 
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Location: Brentwood, CA
I was looking at this yesterday... thin and low rolling resitance is what it sounds like you are after, same as me. I got a bit of an education yesterday, I'll pass on what I learned.

As luck would have it, these days tires have expanded ratings covering everthing from tred design type to noise rating and expected trend life with a comprehensive rating system. About the closest thing to low rolling resistance I could find was high tred life, which I assume is a combination of low rolling resistance and a hard rubber compound. Check out The Tire Rack.com and search use their search engine, search by size.

In my search, 155-80 13 is about the thinnest I could find, 155mm wide and 80 sidewall aspect ratio puts it at 22.7" dia. and is designed for a 4"-5" wheel. There is a 165-70 14 tire that is about the same diameter as the stock Metro tire, and rated as a fuel saver tire (came OEM on Honda Insight). But you it's wider and you'd need to come up with 14" wheels with our 144.4 <4-1/2"> on 4 lug pattern (common) and our 45mm offset (confusing and not so easy). I haven't talked to them about this specific thing, but the wheel experts at Stockton Wheel (Stockton, CA) will build just about any steel wheel for you.

I used to be able to purchase 135-15's for the front of my cal-looker air cooled VW bug <a popular size for fronts way back-when for the hot-rod vw set> which came factory on some model of Renault and about 21" diameter if I recall. You could get them in Michelin XZX radials too, a great quality tire! Michelin has long since dropped that size, and a few off brand (Kleiber, others) were the only game in town for fifteen years or more. These days I think you can find 145-15's mail order through some of the air-cooled VW suppliers, some off-brand supplier though.

I've been through the whole "hard to find tires" on several vehicles... a word of caution for tires on your commuter: Unless you are prepared to buy 6 or 8 tires so you have a small stock of spares, stick with a commonly used size for availabilty in case of emergency. Being stuck on a road trip, or having your commuter down for 3 days because the 5 tires stores in town can't get 'that size' is awful.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:17 pm 
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You would get easier results increasing your tire pressure. I wouldn't go much narrower than a factory tire. They are spec'd for safety/comfort/weight and reducing the tire size (as opposed to the more popular increasing size for aesthetic purposes) compromizes all these things. Try to find some lightweight rims and stick with OEM size and a little more pressure.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:43 pm 
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m wrote:
You would get easier results increasing your tire pressure. I wouldn't go much narrower than a factory tire. They are spec'd for safety/comfort/weight and reducing the tire size (as opposed to the more popular increasing size for aesthetic purposes) compromizes all these things. Try to find some lightweight rims and stick with OEM size and a little more pressure.


I would have to agree with this statement. True in many aspects.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:22 pm 
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The best thing that ever happened to Metro drivers is when they discontinued the 145's that came from the factory. 155's are better suited to the car and you'll never notice the difference in fuel mileage caused by 10 mm more width. I've got 195/50-15's on mine and noticed no difference in mileage, but a huge difference in traction. In a laboratory setting, I'm sure you could prove an mpg or two, but in real life, you'll never notice. "m" is right, more air pressure will make more difference than a slight width increase.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:30 am 
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from my expierience with my 91 sprint on 145 80 12.s when im doing long lighway trips i put them up to about 65 psi and notice i can go about 80km further on a tank of gas than when i run em at 35 ive been doing that for a few months now and notice the traction is the same and tires look fine (no uneven wear)
-geo

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:27 am 
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Location: Saskatchewan
65psi holy jeebus

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:43 pm 
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itsageo wrote:
from my expierience with my 91 sprint on 145 80 12.s when im doing long lighway trips i put them up to about 65 psi and notice i can go about 80km further on a tank of gas than when i run em at 35 ive been doing that for a few months now and notice the traction is the same and tires look fine (no uneven wear)
-geo


65?? :shock: aren't u at all worried that they'll explode, think i heard that, over-inflated tires stand the risk of rupture when the air inside heats up and expands.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:07 am 
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That's a bit excessive...(65lbs)


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:16 am 
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I put mine to 44 after reading that alot of people were using that. so I upped em from 40. dont think I noticed an improvement on mpg, but they sure like to spin.

but 65, youve got to be kidding me. maybe 50 is the highest id feel safe using, even then, the risk of explosion goes up alot.

I know the numbers of DO NOT EXCEED blah blah blah are there for if you overload a tire. if you check its weight capacity of the tire, youll probably find its capable of 1000+ lbs. ONE tire. so overall you might be putting 650 or so on the front tires and 300 on the rears so you can get away with going above the recommended levels, but use alot of caution, and dont believe everything you read on the internetzz

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:21 am 
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who the fuck is tis mr M. and y hav he placed my pic from facebook with tat fuking caption.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:42 pm 
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harisvirani wrote:
who the fuck is tis mr M. and y hav he placed my pic from facebook with tat fuking caption.


it's just a static url to your image... only you can see it. if you log out of facebook it goes away.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:19 pm 
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1995Firefly4dr wrote:
harisvirani wrote:
who the fuck is tis mr M. and y hav he placed my pic from facebook with tat fuking caption.


it's just a static url to your image... only you can see it. if you log out of facebook it goes away.

That doesnt answer why someone is being called a HOMO. Anyway, is any reason justified on this forum?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:01 pm 
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Location: Olathe KS
I am at 40-45 lbs right now, and with my current mods I am getting ~57mpg give or take a mpg. I hope to break the big 60mpg mark here soon!!!! I don't think I will go 65psi, but I may bump it up to 50psi, and I was thinking of some sort of diverter for the air in front of the tires.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:52 pm 
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Location: Santa Barbara, California
I would totally recommend against pressures like 65psi. Sprints and Metros are too narrow and willing to roll.
I had 2 tires blow at 42psi (rated to 44). They were fairly old tires but they still looked ok.
The only reason I didn't roll, crash, and burn is because I was towing the car when they blew...
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=35891&p=282263#p282263

And I gotta put my 2cents in about the narrow tires....
If you're doing mostly highway stuff, and especially if you have a MK1 car, I LOVE the 155/60/15's with stock Accord 15x5.5 wheels that I'm using now. They ARE heavier than the 12's by about 7 lbs each wheel/tire combo so that's a little drawback if you're doing stop and go driving. They handle MUCH better than the 12's since they're a LOT less floppy in the sidewall area and you can run 44psi and still be within the mfgr's specs. They're larger diameter also so there's the ride height thing to be considered, and you go a little farther per engine rev compated to the 12s also. You won't need taller gears as much. =)
They also make 145/65/15's but I can't find a wheel that will work (15x5 or narrower).
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=37030

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 7:53 pm 
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My take on this is - why?


That is my take .....why do it?


Add up all of you possible potential fuel savings over the next year ....that is even if there really is any.


Then do a simple factoring of what your safety is worth....how about all that time wasted driving around because you had to go so slow because your call handled like crap. Is all that time free for you? If it is, maybe consider working harder or change carreers so you can afford more a few measily gallons more fuel....




I think 14 inch 60s are worth EVERY CENT they may or MAY NOT cost you in fuel economy. I think these cars are downright foolish with skinny 13s - I can't even imagine 12s - I wouldn't be caught dead in one with 12s - litterally.


This applies to over pressuring too - WTF? We used to run up tire pressues for hard sidewalls in racing conditions, but BANG YOUR CAR APART on the street? What kind of law of diminishing returns is that? You get frationally better mileage but you abuse your car till it breaks?



Someone should build a factual graph on this to make it easy to see for the inquiring minds -


Myself, I am very happy on 5 gallons of fuel for driving around all week OR LONGER with a $1600 car on 14 inch 60s in a car that handles pretty darn good - it would take 14-17 gallons OR MORE in my 2005 Honda that cost over 30K

See my point?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:52 pm 
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I can tell a number of you folks are clueless about tires. I'll run down some ideas for you here:

High tire pressure, take 1:

The tire pressure recommended for your car is based on weight and tire size to give you the best TIRE FOOTPRINT at that weight and size, factoring in tire wear, ride and mileage. Too much air equals near-zero footprint and no handling or stopping capabilities especially on wet, icy or loose road surface. When you brake hard and try to make an emergency maneuver to avoid a crash and you car keeps going straight at the same speed, you'll figure out what I'm talking about. With your tires properly inflated, your contact patch is about the size of the palm of your hand on each tire. Get your tire pressure too high and it drops to about ½-¼ of that. That tiny patch of rubber on each tire is all that keeps you alive.

You people are UNSAFE with your tires up like that! Put your pressure back down where it belongs and stay alive. 100 MPG doesn't mean anything to a dead person.

ME: 1,000,000+ mile professional driver, Emergency vehicle operator and ex driver-trainer


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:33 am 
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tyme_gypsy wrote:
The tire pressure recommended for your car is based on weight and tire size to give you the best TIRE FOOTPRINT at that weight and size, factoring in tire wear, ride and mileage.

I have more grip at 45F/42R PSI than the recommended 32 PSI. This is on a Civic (a little heavier than a Swift/Metro). 65 PSI is stupid, but so is 32.

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1994 Metro - MPH project (getting a DOHC G13B)
1994 Metro - MPG project (getting an XFi G10)
1992 Swift - Parts car (gone)
1991 Swift - Parts car (gone)
1990 Swift - Parts car
1997 Metro - Parts car (gone)
1993 Metro - Parts car
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:47 pm 
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Location: Saskatchewan
im back to 42 all around

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 12:03 am 
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C3Killer wrote:
I am going for mileage here, not traction. Our stock wheels are what like 4" wide? Can we get wheels/tires any thinner than that?? I would even go with a solid tire if it were thin enough. Thanks.

Well, to answer your question with a picture:
Image

You can see that the 145 and 155 put the same amount of rubber on the road.
The 145 is about 3/4 inch smaller in outside diameter when measured side by side with a 155.
The 155 has a greater taper from the sidewall to the tread. It is obvious in the photo.
The 145 has less rotating mass and gets better gas mileage than the 155.

Looking at your profile, you probably want 94 Metro specific information.
If you are running 12 inch wheels, perhaps they are similar to my MK1's.
1985-1988 Chevy Sprints used the 145s and got very good mileage.
I distinctly remember 5-10 mile per gallon differences, depending on brand and road conditions.
Rather difficult to find 145s now.
My 93 Geo and my 94 Swift GA use 13 inch wheels, so not commenting about 13 inch wheels and tires.

Woodie wrote:
The best thing that ever happened to Metro drivers is when they discontinued the 145's that came from the factory. 155's are better suited to the car and you'll never notice the difference in fuel mileage caused by 10 mm more width. I've got 195/50-15's on mine and noticed no difference in mileage, but a huge difference in traction. In a laboratory setting, I'm sure you could prove an mpg or two, but in real life, you'll never notice. "m" is right, more air pressure will make more difference than a slight width increase.


Normally, I stand side by side with Woodie, but he's a little ahead of me on this one.
Didn't know that Metros came with 145s.
The width is not on the actual tread...it's on the sidewall, but I did notice on my MK1's (not Metros) a mileage difference.
So, still no argument there.
As far as 'm' saying that more air pressure is an easier way to increase miles per gallon/km, will have to agree as well.

itsageo wrote:
from my expierience with my 91 sprint on 145 80 12.s when im doing long lighway trips i put them up to about 65 psi and notice i can go about 80km further on a tank of gas than when i run em at 35 ive been doing that for a few months now and notice the traction is the same and tires look fine (no uneven wear)
-geo
from my expierience with my 91 sprint on 145 80 12.s when im doing long lighway trips i put them up to about 65 psi and notice i can go about 80km further on a tank of gas than when i run em at 35 ive been doing that for a few months now and notice the traction is the same and tires look fine (no uneven wear)
-geo


As long as you are in a low population density area, and in the cooler climates...like you are...I don't see any real harm. Some people here are in a crowded municipal, high stress situation.
I'd like to see your air pressures drop a little, though.

sbdeadelf wrote:
And I gotta put my 2cents in about the narrow tires....
If you're doing mostly highway stuff, and especially if you have a MK1 car, I LOVE the 155/60/15's with stock Accord 15x5.5 wheels that I'm using now. They ARE heavier than the 12's by about 7 lbs each wheel/tire combo so that's a little drawback if you're doing stop and go driving. They handle MUCH better than the 12's since they're a LOT less floppy in the sidewall area and you can run 44psi and still be within the mfgr's specs. They're larger diameter also so there's the ride height thing to be considered, and you go a little farther per engine rev compated to the 12s also. You won't need taller gears as much.


Having read your thread about the towing incident, it would appear that the tires failed during a long tow.
Thus, from a safety standpoint, it seems more likely that the 155s have more sidewall, and perhaps would heat more slowly.
Adding 7 pounds per wheel/combo is a significant amount.
If you are interested in a fine MK1 handling experience, it would seem that shock/struts would be the first investment. The early Sprints were very good handling cars with new struts and wheels. Certainly your larger wheels are an upgrade for the curves, but on a straight section of road they would not be very helpful.
As far as going a little farther per engine revolution, the final drive ratios mentioned by Manutea would be more difficult to do, but add less rotating mass to your ride. Price wise, it also might be cheaper to change the gear ratio given some of the prices of these aftermarket wheels and tires.
Remember, C3Killer is looking for mileage, not slalom capacity... :wink:

econoboxer wrote:
I think 14 inch 60s are worth EVERY CENT they may or MAY NOT cost you in fuel economy. I think these cars are downright foolish with skinny 13s - I can't even imagine 12s - I wouldn't be caught dead in one with 12s - litterally.


When you are used to driving/owning one of these:
Image
You can imagine how silly the subcompacts look on the road.
But to get in a subcompact after driving what you call a 'big rig' is not unimaginable. It's done daily.
Each tire/wheel/vehicle combination has it's purpose.
Younger fellows want to attract a nice girl, so they might put on some high end wheels and tires:
Image
Older fellows, in a stable relationship, living in a low population density area might prefer the 145 by 12 inch wheels:
Image

The fellows on the cutting edge...'m', woodie and others with their advanced stereo/sound system knowledge prefer other set ups which suit their specific needs.
What may look foolish to you and I might seem very 'in' to a 19 year old.
Just imagine how you look to that trucker you pass tomorrow on the road. Silly? Foolish? The trucker might not think a 12, 13, 14, OR 15 incher is safe, considering the accidents one sees on the road.
So where do you draw the line?

tyme_gypsy wrote:
I can tell a number of you folks are clueless about tires. I'll run down some ideas for you here:

High tire pressure, take 1:

The tire pressure recommended for your car is based on weight and tire size to give you the best TIRE FOOTPRINT at that weight and size, factoring in tire wear, ride and mileage. Too much air equals near-zero footprint and no handling or stopping capabilities especially on wet, icy or loose road surface. When you brake hard and try to make an emergency maneuver to avoid a crash and you car keeps going straight at the same speed, you'll figure out what I'm talking about. With your tires properly inflated, your contact patch is about the size of the palm of your hand on each tire. Get your tire pressure too high and it drops to about ½-¼ of that. That tiny patch of rubber on each tire is all that keeps you alive.

You people are UNSAFE with your tires up like that! Put your pressure back down where it belongs and stay alive. 100 MPG doesn't mean anything to a dead person.

ME: 1,000,000+ mile professional driver, Emergency vehicle operator and ex driver-trainer


First, welcome to the board. :clap: :clap: :clap:
You will find some pretty smart people here.
If you want to 'race' your car, we've got the men with the know how...and how.
We have cars here which beat the 400 horse Ferrari.
I noticed that C3 Killer dropped his pressure back down, so no need to go off on him, right?
If you are looking to squeeze the last drop out of your 'econobox', then there's a ton of suggestions here as well.
If you look at the differences between the 145 picture and the 155 above, you will agree that they both put the same amount of rubber on the road, no?
So safety wise, it might be a toss up.
Or no?
Again, you will find real friends here as you take the time to put a little of yourself into your posts.
:sunny:

Finally, as a professional driver, introducing yourself and dropping numbers, clue us in to your ton/miles and number of times you came in under the hook...old Johnny Mullet will be wanting to know.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Gasoline Fumes wrote:
I have more grip at 45F/42R PSI than the recommended 32 PSI. This is on a Civic (a little heavier than a Swift/Metro). 65 PSI is stupid, but so is 32.


Gasoline Fumes is another pretty smart guy. If you follow his advice you will go far.
My comment would be one of geo graphical :D :D :D :D :D location.
If you are in the desert, then you wouldn't mind a 32 psi tire pressure at the beginning of a long desert trip.
And of course, starting out at 6am from Phoenix, Arizona going to Dallas/Ft. Worth Texas with 65 psi in your tires might not be the smartest thing, either.
So to those reading this thread, consider your geo....graphic...al location before you put your air pressure up or down.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:43 pm 
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Wholly Molley Phil N Ed, what a post. For all of you interested, I am only running 10psi over whats recommended, and I am looking for 70mpg soon. I just bought an XFI cam and will hopefully be adding that to my list of mods soon. I have done a lot already, and have gained a wealth of knowledge already even from my few posts. Thanks guys.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:41 pm 
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Good post indeed PnE. Covers a lot of ground.
As far as my choice of the 155/60/15s I wasn't thinking so much of slalom stuff, but I do a heck of a lot of highway driving. The car just felt too floppy with the 12's if I ever had to swerve around a thrown semi tread, a dead racoon or something. It made me nervous. (on the same trip where I blew the 12's, in the first 3 hours of driving, the semi I was drafting had a tire explode. I saw a cloud of dust and heard a bang and it let me slow down just enough to be able to avoid the giant tread as it came flying back at me! Exciting trip as far as tires go!)
Oh yeah! And I've finally started getting some mileage numbers on that gold car with the 15's... the highest so far is 53.4mpg and the worst was 36 (ouch!!! driving fast against a headwind followed by short city trips) There have been 50's and 48.8 mpgs as well.
Another thing you mentioned made me wonder.... does flat-towing with a tow bar put any additional stress on tires? I can see how towing through tight curves might stress them, but how about long flat straight stretches? I would have thought not.... but then... I have two tires that might suggest otherwise.... or it could also be a coincidence of old tires inflated to 42psi and the first 3000 miles after years of sitting.
Is 'coming along for the ride' tough on tires?

_________________
85 Chevy Sprint Plus
87 Chevy Sprint Plus
It may only have 3 cylinders and be less than 1 liter.....
BUT IT'S GOT A HEMI!!
XD


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