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 Post subject: Fuel warmers
PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:44 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:52 am
Posts: 228
Location: Fort Atkinson WI
Looking for some insight on fuel warmers. I'm going to make one in the next few days here and was just wondering what kind of results people are seeing running them? I'm going to pipe mine into the coolant line from the t-stat to the intake line. Any suggestions commments warnings ????

Also wondering about an EFIE ? Looking for comments on results from them. I was thinking about maybe trying to make one or just purchase it? Thanks in advance.

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Just when I thought I was about to get back on my own 2 feet life kicked me in the shorts.

94 GEO METRO PARTS FOR SALE EVERYTHING MUST GO!!!!
94 XFI rust bucket
96 Honda Accord


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel warmers
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:40 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:52 am
Posts: 228
Location: Fort Atkinson WI
2 weeks and no replies...pooopie :( gonna try the fuel warmer anyways. Got the car upto 54.5MPG without any crazy P&G driving stunts.

_________________
Just when I thought I was about to get back on my own 2 feet life kicked me in the shorts.

94 GEO METRO PARTS FOR SALE EVERYTHING MUST GO!!!!
94 XFI rust bucket
96 Honda Accord


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel warmers
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 3:03 pm 
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Sad but True...

Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:20 pm
Posts: 2973
Location: Saskatchewan
well its true it atomizes better when its warmer, but I seem to recall reading two sided bs stories about how well they work.

Though in theory it seems like a good idea, and I may try it

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1991 Swift GT Build G10 +25 psi + other goodies
1996 Metro Build QR25de swap, still undecided where to take it
the lolcar family


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel warmers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:02 am 
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Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 11:42 am
Posts: 54
Location: Kentucky
I think the argument for reducing vaporization is better than the one for increasing it. And as far as I know the recent changes that have significntly reduce vaporization time (MPFI, Direct Injection) have done nothing but help fuel economy. A carburator is the ultimate fuel vaporizer being bolted directly to the engine and running hot to the touch on most of my old cars and none of these seem to give spectacular fuel economy.

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90 LSI 5 spd 3Tech Econo Cam 175/70/13s


Last edited by 90Metro on Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Fuel warmers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:26 am 
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Sad but True...

Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:20 pm
Posts: 2973
Location: Saskatchewan
thats because its a carburetor lol

its simple physics, hotter things expand. You put nearly frozen fuel in and it will be harder to separate than something thats hot

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1991 Swift GT Build G10 +25 psi + other goodies
1996 Metro Build QR25de swap, still undecided where to take it
the lolcar family


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel warmers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:35 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:52 am
Posts: 228
Location: Fort Atkinson WI
I picked up a block of aluminum I can make a small heat exchanger with. I don't trust soldered copper fittings under the hood under pressure(i have a wife and kids I want to see) I'm just going to drill to passages one 1/2" and one 1/4" NPT and let the aluminum do the rest. I've been monitoring my gas mileage pretty closely so once its done I'll report back that it's complete(give me a day or 2) and then test it for a few weeks. I put on between 360-450 miles a week.

_________________
Just when I thought I was about to get back on my own 2 feet life kicked me in the shorts.

94 GEO METRO PARTS FOR SALE EVERYTHING MUST GO!!!!
94 XFI rust bucket
96 Honda Accord


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel warmers
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:53 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:52 am
Posts: 228
Location: Fort Atkinson WI
OK I got my heat exchanger built and installed. I still have to get better hose clamps because paranoia is a beeotch :shock: i started the car up and let it idle for a few minutes and it was already very warm to the touch so we have heat transfer. I work all weekend so by next week I'll have 1st tank data.

_________________
Just when I thought I was about to get back on my own 2 feet life kicked me in the shorts.

94 GEO METRO PARTS FOR SALE EVERYTHING MUST GO!!!!
94 XFI rust bucket
96 Honda Accord


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel warmers
PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 12:25 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:41 pm
Posts: 263
Location: PA
interested in your findings then.......


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel warmers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:56 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:52 am
Posts: 228
Location: Fort Atkinson WI
almost at half tank...nothing to report yet. Well actually yeah I'm still alive so obviously no leaks =) I work the next 3 days so that should put me close to another fill up. If not it'll be next week for an update. Damn mileage keeps slowly going up and the tanks keep going further its a nice dilemna to have :D

_________________
Just when I thought I was about to get back on my own 2 feet life kicked me in the shorts.

94 GEO METRO PARTS FOR SALE EVERYTHING MUST GO!!!!
94 XFI rust bucket
96 Honda Accord


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel warmers
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:53 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:52 am
Posts: 228
Location: Fort Atkinson WI
Filled up this morning at 505 miles with 9.7 gals of gas. So 52MPG again :cry: I dunno no gains so I'm debating which way to go now. I noticed my fan was running because of my grille block. The weather is getting cooler though, still have to pull some timing yet, fugger is still pinging at times. I'm going to continue tweaking this thing and see if it'll eclipse 55MPG. Then I'll know if i got any gains from it.

_________________
Just when I thought I was about to get back on my own 2 feet life kicked me in the shorts.

94 GEO METRO PARTS FOR SALE EVERYTHING MUST GO!!!!
94 XFI rust bucket
96 Honda Accord


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel warmers
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:39 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:41 pm
Posts: 263
Location: PA
Did you have the grille block on before you put the warmer on? I mean, did you go thru a few tanks with just the block to see where you were, or did you do them both at the same time?


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel warmers
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:50 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:52 am
Posts: 228
Location: Fort Atkinson WI
I put the grille block, ran a few tanks, then I put the heater on with 100 miles to go on the previous tank. I ran a whole tank with the heater on and netted no gains. I did adjust timing because it was pinging and it still is at times. I also just ran some seafoam through it. i dunno let me sort this thing out some and I'll keep updating every week after each fill up. In theory I would thinnk it would work...but reality can bite you in the ass. :blackeye:

_________________
Just when I thought I was about to get back on my own 2 feet life kicked me in the shorts.

94 GEO METRO PARTS FOR SALE EVERYTHING MUST GO!!!!
94 XFI rust bucket
96 Honda Accord


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel warmers
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 12:03 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:41 pm
Posts: 263
Location: PA
"In theory I would thinnk it would work...but reality can bite you in the ass. :blackeye:"

And there you have it folks, spoken like a true experimentalist(<--nice word, huh?) :lol:

Definitely, keep us posted.


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel warmers
PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:16 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:52 am
Posts: 228
Location: Fort Atkinson WI
I set the timing at 6 degrees on friday and finally didn't hear any pinging. I know someone said it would increase the chance of detonation and I believe it now. I was running around 10 before. But, the car seems to run smoother now, my results are going to be skewed a bit with the onset of cooler weather. Last week we had some 30-40 degree mornings. This week looks a little more promising 50 degree mornings. if I can keep the car over 50MPG through the winter I'll be happy. especially now that gas keeps slipping down lower and lower.

_________________
Just when I thought I was about to get back on my own 2 feet life kicked me in the shorts.

94 GEO METRO PARTS FOR SALE EVERYTHING MUST GO!!!!
94 XFI rust bucket
96 Honda Accord


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel warmers
PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:33 am 
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Sad but True...

Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:20 pm
Posts: 2973
Location: Saskatchewan
wow, you sure as hell shouldnt be pinging with 10deg timing, even like 15-16 really

_________________
1991 Swift GT Build G10 +25 psi + other goodies
1996 Metro Build QR25de swap, still undecided where to take it
the lolcar family


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel warmers
PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:59 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:52 am
Posts: 228
Location: Fort Atkinson WI
6 degrees BTDC has been fine. I ran it with more but it was hard to tell if it was pinging. I had it as far as 12 BTDC but after listening uphill under load I heard an odd noise figured it had to be pinging heard it at 10 and at times at 8 BTDC. I also see not everyone runs the XFI's much past 6 BTDC or am I wrong here?

This motor is wounded not a strong runner. Compression numbers are poo poo #2 was weak I suspect bad valves. So that and very hot fuel I've heard some people say the hotter fuel will increase the likely hood of detonation soooooo It makes sense. I also wan't really ever able to run it past much more then 8 BTDC. Maybe when i was running 93 it was ok but not with 89-87 octane. Or I'm just hearing something else???? i dunno the pinging I hear is very quiet, alot of windf will droan it out? That sound right or should it be pronounced?

_________________
Just when I thought I was about to get back on my own 2 feet life kicked me in the shorts.

94 GEO METRO PARTS FOR SALE EVERYTHING MUST GO!!!!
94 XFI rust bucket
96 Honda Accord


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel warmers
PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:11 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:41 pm
Posts: 263
Location: PA
"pinging" will sound like a light misfire. Yes, usually noted under a load on a hill. You'll hear it like its right in front of you or sort of near the floor area by the firewall. I don't think I would say the wind noise would drown it out though.

I'm not sure on the Xfi setting, maybe someone else can clarify, but I have an X cam in my 91 Metro and I can't get it past 5-6* myself. May be due to the distributor....? Wish I had the 92 wiring so I could put in the electronic distributor and the ECU. Oh well for now.


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel warmers
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:07 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:52 am
Posts: 228
Location: Fort Atkinson WI
Well I haven't seen any improvements over the last 2 tanks. I'm still getting over 50MPG but nothing great. I think the cooler temps out are effecting this...maybe. I'm going to keep it on for now and see about doing a valve job come springtime.

_________________
Just when I thought I was about to get back on my own 2 feet life kicked me in the shorts.

94 GEO METRO PARTS FOR SALE EVERYTHING MUST GO!!!!
94 XFI rust bucket
96 Honda Accord


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel warmers
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:09 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 11:26 pm
Posts: 70
Location: Port Orchard, Washington USA
Sir,

I would stick with your fuel warmer, keep the engine warm at night (and in the day if possible) and use warm air induction.

These are my winter month recommendations to help retain your summer mileage numbers.

It is also proven that you can use 100% grill block below 90 degrees ambient on an XFI

Regards,

TH


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel warmers
PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:42 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:52 am
Posts: 228
Location: Fort Atkinson WI
SIR :? EEK making me feel old.

I plan on running it through the winter and continue to monitor the motor.
I have a full frontal block right now and it hasn't been an issue.
I'm just hoping to keep it around 50MPG this winter if at all possible.
I have the coolant heater on the car, apppears to be a factory item? I'm going to look at work for outlets outside I can plug into. At home it will be on a timer for probably 3-4 hours before leaving for work.

_________________
Just when I thought I was about to get back on my own 2 feet life kicked me in the shorts.

94 GEO METRO PARTS FOR SALE EVERYTHING MUST GO!!!!
94 XFI rust bucket
96 Honda Accord


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel warmers
PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:32 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:31 pm
Posts: 57
Location: Lummi Island
I have also noticed the car does not like to run cool.
I was thinking about insulating the block. There is enough surface
area on the block to keep it from warming up in cold weather.
A wrap of thin AL with hard fiberglass insulation board around the oil pan
and block would help it warm up faster and run hotter.
I am currently heating fuel and always block the radiator in the winter.
My mileage has been poor this last season due to bad bearings and brakes.
I just put a 96 front end on my 94 and cut a loop out of the front coils.
Still need to cut the back. The engine is getting tired, I am about to swap it with
a low mileage JDM and put new exhaust on.
There is also an air dam in the works...

MM- 94 geo metro with GTI hatchback, 96 suspension, cut front coils, 13" 185's on the front,
Heated fuel, etc...


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