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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:35 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:24 pm
Posts: 3
Location: kansas
Hi, i just bought a geo metro for 100$ it runs really well and im pretty sure there are no major problems with it. I hear everbody saying they got 50-60mpg with theirs and i just wondered if mine should be doing close to that. It has 170k on it and i do about 60/40 highway/city driving and usually keep my foot out of it. Also i always have about 600 lbs. of people in it :shock: we car pool to vo-tech.

things ive done.
1. changed oil and filter
2. changed air filter
3. aired up tires correctly

things i think might be wrong

1. o2 sensor
2. clogged cat (doubt this one becasue i hear no whistling noise or smell rotten eggs)
3. never checked timing, but i hear this has alot to do with mpg.
4. never checked spark plug gap, also the cap and wires look about the same age as the rest of the engine.

any info would be greatly appreciated i drive 60 miles a day to get to school, and my only other car is a 500+ HP 79 silverado lol so gas mileage is greatly valued by me :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 5:41 am 
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Location: Ashtabula, Ohio
Check the condition of the plugs and while you are at it, please do a compression test on all 3 cylinders. This will tell us how healthy the engine is. Compression should be around 200 PSI on each cylinder wet and dry tested.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:11 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:52 am
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Location: Fort Atkinson WI
SES? check the codes if you have any.

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Just when I thought I was about to get back on my own 2 feet life kicked me in the shorts.

94 GEO METRO PARTS FOR SALE EVERYTHING MUST GO!!!!
94 XFI rust bucket
96 Honda Accord


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:03 am 
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Location: So. Calif
O2 sensors are pretty cheap. I'd change that first given the mileage on your car if it is original.

New plugs, wires, cap and rotor would be good too if they're quite worn.
Forget the fancy plugs, just get NGK regular copper plugs.

Don't think your cat is clogged. If non-functional but not clogged, that won't affect your mileage. If clogged, you'd know it pulling 600 lbs of people around.

_________________
1992 Geo metro, 1.0L 5spd, 511,000miles on original engine & trans
- First time engine work at 456K miles, bad headgasket. Rebuilt head, Felpro gasket installed.
- knuckles/hubs/brakes/13" wheels from a 2000 Metro, running 175 70R13
- New bearings and 1st/2nd synchros at 440.5K miles.
- MPGuino
- Averaging ~ 51MPG these days


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:51 am 
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Location: Washington, DC
Johnny M is right on target with a compression check. A 170K three cylinder most likely needs new valves. In good condition your car should get around 45 mpg in mixed driving. Guys claiming 50 - 60 are running dangerous tire pressures and never exceeding 60 mph.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:27 am 
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Location: Fort Atkinson WI
Woodie wrote:
Guys claiming 50 - 60 are running dangerous tire pressures and never exceeding 60 mph.

Thats a load of BS if I ever did hear it. I get 50-52MPG mixed driving. I do 60-65 on the freeway 55-60 on the backroads and I'm always speeding in town. 60MPG is attainable without driving like a total shmuck.

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Just when I thought I was about to get back on my own 2 feet life kicked me in the shorts.

94 GEO METRO PARTS FOR SALE EVERYTHING MUST GO!!!!
94 XFI rust bucket
96 Honda Accord


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 6:09 am 
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Okay, I did exaggerate a bit, but the point is, he shouldn't expect 60 mpg. He's got a clapped out base model that he bought for $100 and you've got a well maintained XFI.

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10 Suzuki Kizashi


Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:15 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:28 am
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Location: McCall, Idaho (Native: So Cal)
"When you give up your dream, you die." - Nick Hurley

Welcome to TeamSwift, $100_Metro.

Vo-tech, eh. Good luck!
Besides the other most excellent suggestions...
Excuse my assumptions.
1. So, the 600 lbs is a problem with gas mileage. If the tires are good, you can replace the spare with fix-a-flat or AAA and add 3 psi. Loose weight = better gas mileage.
2. Your engine light will come on if your sensors are low or high on voltage. If it's not ON don't fix it, I think. You insert a fuse in an empty (raised) slot and codes flash. OBDII started in '95. Search this site for more relevant threads.
3. If you have a timing light for your Silverado use it on your Metro. Chilton manual says 5 deg. before, you might go 6-7. Mine hasn't exploded at 1.5 over, yet. Info. sticker under you hood?
4. Clean all grounds, very well. Test coil? Could lightly sand dist. cap and rotor contacts. Belt tensions (?). Go to http://ecomodder.com/ for 100+ tips. Disconnect the air cleaner snorkel, for better air flow, all be it warm air. Add cold air intake later.

Add to your list (1) spray carb cleaner, (2) new PCV valve, (3) synthertic oils - Transmission is next. (4) New vacuum hoses. Plus... Struts may be shot, $50 each. Buy 8-9mm plug wires ($20-$40?) and 8mm ground wires ($20?). My Geos happen to like exotic, pricey Bosch plugs ($8 each). Later, the engine can be replaced for $550-$750 or rebuilt, if the compression is shot.

The nice thing is it's a 3 banger. That's 3/8's the Silverado. My '74 350 Chevy van was getting all this stuff then along came the Geo, my new best friend. I get 53 mpg, combined.

Welcome to the world of tuners.

_________________
Have fun,
Bad Bent
'91 Metro, rescued from trip to junk yard. SuzukiRD Underpulley & Header. 3Tech 9mm plug wires & 218/350 cam +10 gear, Bosch Plat. +4s, FlameThrowerII, synthetic fluids. K&N, Optima, Catco, Jones glasspack, & KYB struts. Vortekx Generators, Air dam, 7mm ground system, Ram Air. No TBI bridge. No A/C - roof scoop works.
'96 Metro - The Wife's car: SuzukiRD Underpulley, 3Tech econo cam +10 gear, K&N, KYB, Bosch, Syn. & grounded. No TBI bridge.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 6:51 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:41 am
Posts: 173
Location: Canada
thinkmoto wrote:
Woodie wrote:
Guys claiming 50 - 60 are running dangerous tire pressures and never exceeding 60 mph.

Thats a load of BS if I ever did hear it. I get 50-52MPG mixed driving. I do 60-65 on the freeway 55-60 on the backroads and I'm always speeding in town. 60MPG is attainable without driving like a total shmuck.


Don't think it's BS. Like he says, you're driving a relatively new XFI. I get 5.5 km/L with my 4 door, bigger tires, and 4 cylinder STI. In order to get to 50-60, I would need skinny tires, overinflated, with body mods to get to 55, and it would still be very hard unless I did 60km/h everywhere without touching my brakes.

AS FOR THE THREAD:

Get 12 inch rims and tires if you can. Lower your car and get a skirt. You know that edging that gardeners use, the black stuff with a lip? Bolt it to your bumper and have it close to the ground. Manual, right? Cover over the rear wheels for wind resistance. Get an efficient cam shaft.

Don't use air conditioning. You don't need to cut the belt, but if you never want to use it again, go ahead, cut the belt. Get someone to take out the R13 refrigerant. Remove the compressor and AC radiator.

So I think 12 inch rims over 13 inch would get you 3% more efficiency. A skirt another 4%. Wheel hub covers maybe 1%. Weight reductions don't do much unless you're always starting and stopping.

No matter what the guys here say, there's really not much you can do to your car to give it better mileage outside of wind and friction resistance, unless you have a big mechanical problem. Easy way to tell is if your car runs like crap or not.

I put the tire pressure up to around 35psi. Factory says 32? I don't know. The more tire pressure the better, but don't overdo it.

_________________
"Apollo 13", 436,600km | 89 Swift GTi -dead-
91 Pontiac Firefly.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 3:13 am 
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Location: McCall, Idaho (Native: So Cal)
Welcome to TeamSwift, kaboler.

The A/C suggestion was very good, and yes, I put 38 psi in 35 psi rated tires (conservative) in the 5 car tires. Keep the spare for safety, with passengers.

We are talking about the 1 liter, 3 cylinder, 5 speed manual, 2 door Metro. Read my signature, look at my album. My mods give me 53 mpg combined. So 31 mpg for a 3 banger is low. 600 lbs is pushing the cars limit of 688. http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/driveHabits.shtml So EPA est. 45 mpg -1.5%/100 lbs= 40.95 mpg hwy. Weight reductions matter climbing hills, like Kansas, eh. But if they "don't do much" why remove the A/C stuff? I digress.

Compression check, valves etc. are perfect suggestions from everyone else. So far $100_metro has made intellegent reasonable improvements. Next is "checking timing... spark plug gap... cap and wires..." A basic tune-up.

Now, rea$onable improvements that affect mileage and engine life are improve air flow, advance timing, clean throttle body/fuel system, change PCV and upgrade fluids. Fuel filter - forgot fuel filter. Check belts, WD-40 metal mechanisms/electrical connections, new vacuum hoses, clean all grounds. You are at maybe $120US + a compression test.

Pricey stuff: wheels & tires ($200-$350+mount) if needed, Moon Hubcaps ($115 for +1 mpg), XFI camshaft @ $150 (+ bolts?), engine work or just a new engine for $500-$700+. But we don't know what the compression or budget is. A 500 hp '79 Silverado can bust you. So it's $100_metro's move, eh. :)

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Have fun,
Bad Bent
'91 Metro, rescued from trip to junk yard. SuzukiRD Underpulley & Header. 3Tech 9mm plug wires & 218/350 cam +10 gear, Bosch Plat. +4s, FlameThrowerII, synthetic fluids. K&N, Optima, Catco, Jones glasspack, & KYB struts. Vortekx Generators, Air dam, 7mm ground system, Ram Air. No TBI bridge. No A/C - roof scoop works.
'96 Metro - The Wife's car: SuzukiRD Underpulley, 3Tech econo cam +10 gear, K&N, KYB, Bosch, Syn. & grounded. No TBI bridge.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:47 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:24 pm
Posts: 3
Location: kansas
Thanks for the help guys.

I will try to as soon i can to check the compression, my only question was when you say wet compression test im not real sure what that means? I do know i've went 400 miles with it and as far as the dipstick shows, burnt no oil, but i also understand that even if i have good rings my valves may not be seating correctly and therefore lowering my compression.

While i'm checking the compression i will check or just replace the spark plugs.

Then i will clean all the grounds and also clean out my throttle body and bend around all the vacuum lines and check for cracked ones.

I will check timing and run at 6-7 deg. BTDC unless i hear knocking.

I am already riding on 12in. tires

not really sure how to check SES codes, all other cars i've been around are OBD2 or only have enough wires for a radio and lights. :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:31 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:08 pm
Posts: 1254
Location: Ashtabula, Ohio
If you have a pre-1996 Metro and the "Check Engine" light on and would like to find out why, you need to access your fuse panel and look for the diagnostic port. Insert a spare fuse into the port and then turn your key to the "ON" position. The check engine light will then blink a 2 digit code over and over. It may display more than one code also. Simply count the flashes for the code.
Example.........

1-2 (Code for no faults found)

This is a picture for the diag port connection...........
Image

Here is a code chart.................

Quote:
1986-1995 Metro/Swift TBI fuel injection

13 - O2S Circuit
14 - ECT Sensor Circuit
15 - ECT Sensor Circuit
21 - TP Sensor Circuit Signal Voltage High
22 - TP Sensor Circuit Signal Voltage Low
23 - IAT Sensor Circuit
24 - VSS Circuit
25 - IAT Sensor Circuit
31 - Pressure Sensor Circuit
32 - Pressure Sensor Circuit
41 - Ignition Fail-Safe Signal Circuit
42 - Crank Angle Sensor Circuit
51 - EGR System & REGT Sensor Circuit


To test a cylinder wet, add an ounce of oil to the cylinder before testing it. Test them dry, then wet and post the readings here. Also post the check engine code while you are at it.

_________________
Image
  • EcoMudder - Geo Metro Mudder
  • Project page
  • Build Video
  • 1991 4 Door Truck Conversion
  • Modified Suzuki 1.0L Engine
  • High Stall 3200 RPM Converter
  • Auto Trans with Welded Differential
  • Custom Exhaust and Intake System
  • 6" Suspension Lift & Weight Reduction
  • 27" Kenda Executioner 6 Ply ATV tires


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:38 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:52 am
Posts: 228
Location: Fort Atkinson WI
Like Johnny said do the compression test and post findings, post SES light if any, ditch the 600lbs of passengers,make sure your tires are inflated properly. Check your timing and advance til she pings then back off a touch. Avoid flat footing it whenever possible, avoid long uphills, and keep your lead shoes at home.

_________________
Just when I thought I was about to get back on my own 2 feet life kicked me in the shorts.

94 GEO METRO PARTS FOR SALE EVERYTHING MUST GO!!!!
94 XFI rust bucket
96 Honda Accord


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 3:04 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:41 am
Posts: 173
Location: Canada
BadBent wrote:
Read my signature, look at my album. My mods give me 53 mpg combined. So 31 mpg for a 3 banger is low.


Yeah, it's low, but given what we know about the driver here, and the lack of what we know about his driving style, it's not gadawful hehehehe. But 53 is good.

Quote:
Weight reductions matter climbing hills, like Kansas, eh. But if they "don't do much" why remove the A/C stuff? I digress.


Weight reduction is good if you're climbing hills, true, if you can't pendulum across them. I luv penduluming all my hills hahahaha. I just like removing all the AC stuff. It's heavy and even with the compressor off, your engine is still moving it around a bit (even if it's 1/50th of a HP, guess).

Can a poor fuel filter really affect mpg? I dunno.

_________________
"Apollo 13", 436,600km | 89 Swift GTi -dead-
91 Pontiac Firefly.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 4:38 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:24 pm
Posts: 3
Location: kansas
Ok i still haven't got my friend to come over with his compression tester so tomorrow i should have the results for that, but today i did read the SES codes.

The first code i got was (2blinks {pause} 3blinks {pause}) X3 then it switched to (4 blinks {pause} 2 blinks {pause}) X3 then it repeated them over and over.

So if i read that right i got 2 codes.

1. IAT sensor-I would think that this could have something to do with MPG i think this sensor would have a role it telling it what fuel to air ratio to have. but im not sure.

2. Crank Angle Sensor-I cant really see how this would affect MPG in fact i have no idea what the purpose of this sensor really is.

Also one more question, on the vacuum line running to your MAP sensor what is that little white plastic cylinder that is spliced into it, it looks like maybe a 1 way air valve, or some kind of filter or dryer, just curious im sure somebody knows.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:40 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:28 am
Posts: 290
Location: McCall, Idaho (Native: So Cal)
Chilton says:
Crank Position Sensor. (Near oil pan) "This sensor produces an AC wave by producing a magnetic field. As the rotor passes through the magnetic field, it breaks the flow of current in turn producing a signal. The pulse that is produced is used by the Powertrain Control Modgule (PCM) to control ignition and fuel delivery. It is also used to monitor the engine speed and misfires."

Intake Air Temperature Sensor. "This sensor is located in the air cleaner assembly and is used to measure the temperature of the intake air about to be used by the engine. The sensor uses resistance to turn temperature into voltage that the PCM can use. As the temperature goes up the resistance goes down. The PCM has a fixed resistor located internally. It uses the resistor to reference the sensor. This sensor signal is used through all the phases of engine operation from cold start to closed loop operation to tune fuel delivery." Note: my Chilton only shows a ECM or Engine Control Module in schematics.

In a nut shell. Could be dirty, eh?

kaboler's penduluming idea for those hills in Kansas sounds like a fun trick to play on your carpool. Halloween is next on the list of fun holidays. Sick, sick.

_________________
Have fun,
Bad Bent
'91 Metro, rescued from trip to junk yard. SuzukiRD Underpulley & Header. 3Tech 9mm plug wires & 218/350 cam +10 gear, Bosch Plat. +4s, FlameThrowerII, synthetic fluids. K&N, Optima, Catco, Jones glasspack, & KYB struts. Vortekx Generators, Air dam, 7mm ground system, Ram Air. No TBI bridge. No A/C - roof scoop works.
'96 Metro - The Wife's car: SuzukiRD Underpulley, 3Tech econo cam +10 gear, K&N, KYB, Bosch, Syn. & grounded. No TBI bridge.


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