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 Post subject: Winter Gas Mileage
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:27 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 12:50 am
Posts: 23
Location: Greeneville, TN
I put about 2700 mi on my car (95 Metro, 1.0, 5-sp) in the past 2 weeks.
Half the time spent in the mountains (Virginia, Tennessee, Kentucky) and the other half flat lands (Illinois and Indiana). Mostly doing 70 mph on the interstate.
I averaged about 38.5 mpg, does this seem normal for the winter? I has hoping for a little better.

The only modification I have is Kumho Power Star 758 tires aired up to 50 psi.

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95 Geo Metro: 1.0L/3-cyl/5-sp, the dependable daily driver
84 Fiero Indy Pace Car: 3.8L Turbo/6-Cyl/Auto, weekend Toy


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 Post subject: Re: Winter Gas Mileage
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 3:32 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:06 pm
Posts: 1445
Location: Atlanta GA 30052
i've been getting 46mpg since November, down 10-15 from summer.
same routes, mixed speeds/conditions, mild acceleration and never over 2500 rpm.
the way we drive is the biggest factor. 8) or :drunk:

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looking for:
the time i mispent in my youth

daily driver: red 1991 Metro 3cyl 5sp, roof rack, 8 degree advance,
got 61 mpg combined on 14" tires but i prefer 12"

completed frame up restoration: black 1994 Swift GT 5sp -- like new ! 45mpg


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 Post subject: Re: Winter Gas Mileage
PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:30 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 6:23 am
Posts: 1745
Location: Washington, DC
That's a little low, but winter, mountains, and way too fast, it's probably right. I had two of those and both got about 43 mpg in my normal city/highway mix. No mountains and didn't drive above 65 mph though, the rpm level is frightening, that's what burns valves.

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91 Pontiac Firefly Turbo
10 Suzuki Kizashi


Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms
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 Post subject: Re: Winter Gas Mileage
PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 10:38 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 11:26 pm
Posts: 70
Location: Port Orchard, Washington USA
Quote:
the rpm level is frightening, that's what burns valves.


Hi,

Can you explain this statement please?

Thanks

TH
www.livesteaming.com/metro.htm


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 Post subject: Re: Winter Gas Mileage
PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 8:17 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 6:23 am
Posts: 1745
Location: Washington, DC
At 70 mph his car, with the 4:39 gears is probably turning 4,000 rpm. The exhaust valves, already prone to burning because of the late ignition timing, are critically dependent upon seat time to cool off. The faster the engine spins, especially for long times, the faster those valves will burn.

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91 Pontiac Firefly Turbo
10 Suzuki Kizashi


Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms
Should be the name of a convenience store, not a government agency


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 Post subject: Re: Winter Gas Mileage
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:28 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:52 am
Posts: 228
Location: Fort Atkinson WI
I thought plugged EGR passageways where the cause of the burnt exhasut valves?
According to your logic high revving motors should burn up exhaust valves. I don't buy that one bit.

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Just when I thought I was about to get back on my own 2 feet life kicked me in the shorts.

94 GEO METRO PARTS FOR SALE EVERYTHING MUST GO!!!!
94 XFI rust bucket
96 Honda Accord


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 Post subject: Re: Winter Gas Mileage
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 7:46 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 6:23 am
Posts: 1745
Location: Washington, DC
There is no one cause of valves burning, certainly not EGR. A lot of Metros came from the factory without EGR. All exhaust valves burn in normal use, many different factors can combine to save them, or doom them. Small valves are more prone to it because of less seat area. High rpms contribute because the valves don't sit on the seat very long. Stainless valves would help, a three or five angle valve job (just the ticket for performance) would make it far worse. EGR helps to keep the temperatures down, but the late ignition timing the factory sent up along with EGR is probably the biggest offender in our engines. The late timing allows the valve to open WHILE THE CHARGE IS STILL BURNING. All of this burning gas rushes past the exhaust valve, superheating the edges. Crank your timing up to ten and get free power, mileage, and longer exhaust valve life.

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91 Pontiac Firefly Turbo
10 Suzuki Kizashi


Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms
Should be the name of a convenience store, not a government agency


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 Post subject: Re: Winter Gas Mileage
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 10:52 am 
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Bozo the crying clown

Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:19 am
Posts: 414
Location: Chester County PA
That sounds about right for driving hard under those conditions.. (Winter or summer)

Jimmy


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 Post subject: Re: Winter Gas Mileage
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:38 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 6:23 am
Posts: 1745
Location: Washington, DC
Oops, I forgot a very important factor toward valve burning in G10 engines, thick oil. They originally recommended 5W-30 or 10W-40 oil. After a rash of burned valves they made the drain hole in the lifters larger and changed the recommendation to 5W-30, 10W-30 IF it doesn't get cold, with 5W-30 preferred. The thick oil doesn't drain out fast enough, faster operation would exacerbate this problem.

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91 Pontiac Firefly Turbo
10 Suzuki Kizashi


Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms
Should be the name of a convenience store, not a government agency


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 Post subject: Re: Winter Gas Mileage
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:01 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:43 pm
Posts: 53
Location: USA
As far as winter driving goes. I noticed a decrease in gas mileage but I also noticed that my tranny is harder to shift until it warms up. So I'm thinking the gas mileage decrease is warm up time, thick tranny oil and tire pressure depending on how cold it is. All of these will work against gas mileage until it is warmed up. Thoughts?

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92 Suzuki Swift 1.3L 8V, 5 Speed. My little red Narf-narf car. (sold)
96 Geo Metro 1.0L, 5 speed. Hatchback.


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 Post subject: Re: Winter Gas Mileage
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:49 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:52 am
Posts: 228
Location: Fort Atkinson WI
I'm running 5W-20 castrol GTX, pennzoil synchromesh, and 50 psi tire pressure. My gas mileage is the suck, tranny is stiff when cold til it gets warm and my front end is blocked off to help aid warm up. Geos are just like any other car they don't like the extreme cold and mileage decreases. My wifes Acura TL 6MT didn't like the cold either, tranny was stiff and motor started hard. Cold is cold fellas.

_________________
Just when I thought I was about to get back on my own 2 feet life kicked me in the shorts.

94 GEO METRO PARTS FOR SALE EVERYTHING MUST GO!!!!
94 XFI rust bucket
96 Honda Accord


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 Post subject: Re: Winter Gas Mileage
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:56 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:58 pm
Posts: 157
Location: Kokomo, IN
Now with the cold weather I get 50 mpg when I would have normally gotten 57, and a bad 43 when I should have gotten 50. But this 1 ltr 3 banger still effectively gets double the FE of my 12 second SRT4 Neon when delivering Mustang rims/tires that I sell.

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36 time NHRA/IHRA Champion
05 SRT4 / 12.79 @ 111 mph / 40.1 mpg!
01 Voyager V6 / no mods yet / 24 mpg
84 Horizon / 1760 lbs / was 17.9, now 23.0 mpg
96 Geo Metro / 1590 lbs / was 46.2, now 60 mpg!
95 Neon / unk mpg so far


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 Post subject: Re: Winter Gas Mileage
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:55 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 11:26 pm
Posts: 70
Location: Port Orchard, Washington USA
I'm still getting 57-58 mpg.

I run Mobil 1 0-30 in the Engine

Mobil 1 ATF in the 5-speed manual transmission (shifts as smooth as silk even after sitting outside at work for 12 hours in 25 F weather.)

50 psi in the tires

And....I keep the car plugged in to a KAT coolant heater when not in use both at work and at home, significantly reducing the warm up time in cold start mode.

Trevor Heath
www.livesteaming.com/metro.htm


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 Post subject: Re: Winter Gas Mileage
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:48 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:42 pm
Posts: 345
Location: ajax, ontario, planet bullsh**
50 psi? what tires are you running? what's max pressure for those tires? usually smaller tires like ours won't list max beyond even like 28 psi.

confused?


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 Post subject: Re: Winter Gas Mileage
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:10 pm 
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Sad but True...

Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:20 pm
Posts: 2973
Location: Saskatchewan
150dollarcar wrote:
50 psi? what tires are you running? what's max pressure for those tires? usually smaller tires like ours won't list max beyond even like 28 psi.

confused?

say what?

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1991 Swift GT Build G10 +25 psi + other goodies
1996 Metro Build QR25de swap, still undecided where to take it
the lolcar family


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 Post subject: Re: Winter Gas Mileage
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:19 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:46 pm
Posts: 1099
Location: Abbotsford, BC
150dollarcar wrote:
50 psi? what tires are you running? what's max pressure for those tires? usually smaller tires like ours won't list max beyond even like 28 psi.

confused?


dude you're totally confused :owned:
most hyper-milers here are running 40psi+

_________________
1995 Firefly 1.3 SOHC 8VALVE MANUAL
2000 Firefly 1.3 SOHC 16VALVE AUTO. Goals: full restoration, achieve stock MPG and HP or higher, finished look should be 'stealthy' and unassuming. Engine will need to be rebuilt later on to restore compression levels.


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 Post subject: Re: Winter Gas Mileage
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:55 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:42 pm
Posts: 345
Location: ajax, ontario, planet bullsh**
I'm asking what the max pressure rating is on the sidewall of your tires. usually bigger tires have higher pressure ratings, unless you're looking at farm implement tires which have ridiculous pressure ratings. seriously, now I'm curious I haven't looked at mine, what's the rating?


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 Post subject: Re: Winter Gas Mileage
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:27 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:46 pm
Posts: 1099
Location: Abbotsford, BC
my max rating was 44psi.
in fact we have a whole thread about tire pressure discussions, so keep it there if possible.
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=35891

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1995 Firefly 1.3 SOHC 8VALVE MANUAL
2000 Firefly 1.3 SOHC 16VALVE AUTO. Goals: full restoration, achieve stock MPG and HP or higher, finished look should be 'stealthy' and unassuming. Engine will need to be rebuilt later on to restore compression levels.


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 Post subject: Re: Winter Gas Mileage
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:48 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:06 pm
Posts: 1445
Location: Atlanta GA 30052
1995Firefly4dr wrote:
most hyper-milers here are running 40psi+

my max rating was 44psi.
in fact we have a whole thread about tire pressure discussions, so keep it there if possible.
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=35891


YUP!
(I could be sued if I said what pressure I run)

_________________
looking for:
the time i mispent in my youth

daily driver: red 1991 Metro 3cyl 5sp, roof rack, 8 degree advance,
got 61 mpg combined on 14" tires but i prefer 12"

completed frame up restoration: black 1994 Swift GT 5sp -- like new ! 45mpg


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 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Winter Gas Mileage
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:52 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:42 pm
Posts: 345
Location: ajax, ontario, planet bullsh**
cool, sorry I just commented on a pressure related comment in this topic. I briefly worked in a tire shop, and I'm used to seeing smaller tires have lower ratings. never took into account weight. well thanks for the info.


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