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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 1:00 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2009 12:09 am
Posts: 11
Location: KCMO
Okay I got this 95 Metro 2 door for $700 and it is nice and straight but the tranny has a bearing whine, I decided to go to the junkyard and see if I could find a tranny for it rather then rebuild mine in a hurry. Well I scored!! found a 92 XFi and grabbed the tranny and the motor air cleaner to exhaust down pipe. Grabbed the ecu also.

While I was there I also found a 97 with a 1.0 and grabbed it as well. No tranny with this one though.

My thought is this. And please tell me if it wont work or if there is a better combination.
1. Replace the tranny with the bad bearings for the XFi unit. Gain a little better gearing at the same time.
2. Install the 92 XFi cam into the 97 head while rebuilding it for a head swap.
3. Take the 92 XFi pistons and R&R the 95 block with new bearings/rings while the 95 motor is still in the car.
4. Install the rebuilt 97 head onto the 95 block.
5. Use the 92 XFi MAF? ECU?
6. Larger diameter 14 inch light weight tires and rims.
7. Straight 2 inch exhaust all the way back - no muffler or cat.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:34 am 
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Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 11:26 pm
Posts: 70
Location: Port Orchard, Washington USA
Your biggest issue will be weight with the 95

I've never looked in one to see where the extra 300 lbs is stashed.

I've also no idea what the final drive ratio is on a 95 and you do not say.......

There are owners out there running 3.51 (from a 1.3L 4 cylinder) but not sure if they do so with 14" wheels

XFI cam, tire pressure and grooving the head will get you the most return for your effort.

TH


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:12 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2009 12:09 am
Posts: 11
Location: KCMO
I have an 1992 XFI - 3.79 5-speed transmission that I am rebuilding to use. I think it will work out better for the taller 14 inches wheels I am thinking of. I don't want too low of a ratio and make the thing un-drivable.

Do you know if the throttle body/MAF and ECU from an XFI is worth the work it would take to put in? Getting to those ECU is a real pita in my opinion, I did it once to take out the XFI ECU but that was by smashing through the speaker opening on a junker.

Also I have read about putting a 4 wire O2 sensor in so that it has the heater in the sensor and can always adjust the fuel map faster. This is a mod I will try since it is easily accomplished and cheap using junkyard parts.

My car has air conditioning and I plan on keeping it. I like air as I live in the midwest and without it can be miserable. I am going to charge it with R290 (pure propane) and run an undersized pulley on the crank to slow everything down and reduce Hp consumption. Since R290 is way better then R134 or even R12 at providing cooling there is no reason to run the compressor at full speed or at full pressure. I know this for a fact as I have charged many different types of units with R290. From cars to refrigerator to freezer units. It is a very versatile gas and you do not need a license to handle it.

As for the weight difference one thing that is way lighter is the seats in the XFI - and they suck - at least for a guy my size. Also the XFI never had air. You add up the differance between those 2 things alone and you are very close to 300 lbs.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:42 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:29 am
Posts: 83
Location: Kentucky, USA
I would stay with the std 3 ring pistons and not bother with the XFI jobbies. Taking out a ring doesn't seem like a safe bet.
Do you self a favor and use some kind of muffler. You will have plenty of flow with 2" pipe that you won't notice any restriction with a muffler.
I think most of the weight is for the new saftey requirements that went into effect in 1995. That was the first year of the side impact test.

_________________
1990 Metro G10 5-speed
Econo cam +8 degrees, Miata 14s

54 MPG


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:27 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:19 pm
Posts: 21
Location: San Francisco, Ca.
I am doing the same thing as you...I just picked up a clean '95 with a bad gearbox. I'm going to log my progress as I go. I pulled an XFi gearbox and cam from my old car and will drop those in when I get some time.

I got a baseline MPG number of 41 mpg. Not cool. So far I put in NGKs instead of NDs, disabled the DRLs, threw out uneeded junk like air horns and fog lights and carpet mats and replaced the wrong gear oil with Pennzoil Synchromesh. I'm already at 44.5 mpg. The cam and gearbox should really help.

As for weight...have you lifted one of the airbag modules? It's gotta be 30 lbs! And I swear the panels are heavier than the older Metros...just lifting the hood feels harder on the new one. And the doors feel much beefier.

I thought about the XFi computer too, but seems like more trouble than it's worth. There have to be tons of things that rely on the '95 controller that I don't want to give up. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm assuming the OBD system relys on the '95 ecm. Plus the 4 wire OXY? Airbag input? Probably other things?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:16 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2009 12:09 am
Posts: 11
Location: KCMO
Well today I pulled a set of pistons and rods out of one of my spare motors to get them cleaned up, new rings and new bearing to get ready for rebuilding my engine. They look pretty good on 2 of the bearings but one of them was heavily worn. I don't know yet if it damaged the rod but I don't think so - I will measure it tonight at work.

Since I had to pull the head to get the pistons out I decided to go ahead and get it reworked and ready for the motor rebuild. My plan is to get it shaved about .030 this should allow my compression ratio to be raised up to about 10 to 1 or a little better that is about the same amount that will need to be removed to bring the surface right down to the quench area. I am going to go ahead and put the grooves in the head as I have heard good things about that and I have 2 spare heads to fall back on if I need to. I am trying to find a source for some good exhaust valves maybe stainless. Out of the XFI Motor I pulled out the cam and I will be installing it into the rebuilt head.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:37 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 11:26 pm
Posts: 70
Location: Port Orchard, Washington USA
Don't shave the head without measuring the squish first!!!!!

Machining .030 is a TON, you may not need to remove anything.

If you are grooving the head and want to stay with 87 octane gas, tread VERY carefully on compression.

Check what Mr Sing recommends for squish with grooving. I think he states .070"

I agree use at least a glass pack in-line muffler

I run a 3.52 final drive with 14" wheels but my car weighs less than 1600 lbs dry (I weigh 200 lbs) It drives and pulls really well even at altitude.

Yes 4-wire O2 sensor will help

Don't forget ignition advance, this can be increased significantly, provided you have not raised the compression too much...

Your comments about propane are really interesting.....

TH


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:58 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 11:26 pm
Posts: 70
Location: Port Orchard, Washington USA
R290 Propane filled A/C systems

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w126-s- ... -12-c.html


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:14 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2009 12:09 am
Posts: 11
Location: KCMO
Update- Found out I had a bad rod on my builder set, big end was egg shaped. So back to the local pik-n-pull and grabbed another set of rods/pistons. Always keep your receipt most of these places allows 30-90 day returns on defective parts.

Always take rods/pistons in sets. Even if they are the same size and spec and weight - that doesn't make them the same. They could have the weight in a different place causing all types of weird harmonics. This was a case in point with the set I pulled today. Same year and style of engine coming from cars with the same package level and these 2 sets of rods are very different though having the same basic geometry. Could they be used together? sure - I wouldn't unless I need them to drive out of a desert or something but to each there own.

Next I finished cleaning up my head and got it ready for milling. When milling this head it was placed valve cover surface down on a pair of parallels to allow me to leave the dowel pins in the head on that side. This block was .005" off on one rail so it was shimmed up with a piece of feeler gauge stock. After getting the head surface level it was on to milling - .015" was cut off twice in 2 passes resulting in a total of .030" shaved off from this head. Based on the shape of the combustion chamber this brought me to where my quench are meet the surface of the head smoothly. This combined with with my gasket compression and my piston to deck clearance should give me between 10 - 10.5 to 1 compression ratio. No trouble for pump gas. A few pictures of the milling setup.
Attachment:
File comment: Head milled
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Attachment:
File comment: Closeup of homemade cutter in boring head.
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Don't forget to clean out your EGR passage in the end of the block and the passages under the intake valves.

Speaking of valves, out of all the compressor tools I have none of them could reach these springs to compress them. So rather then buy another expensive tool that I would have to order most likely I made one. Went to Harbor Freight and got a nice big C- clamp and fixed it up like this.
Attachment:
File comment: Picture 1 spring compressor
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Attachment:
File comment: Close-up of the end of compressor
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Attachment:
File comment: Magnet used to get the keepers out of the compressed spring.
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Also made a head stand out of some scrap to make things nice and easy to work on.
Attachment:
File comment: Head stand
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Attachment:
File comment: Drilled out brass compression fitting to protect milled surfaces
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The head is done after about an hour. Single pointing 2 passes takes a while when your trying to keep a nice finish.

Salvaged the intake valves, mine where dirty but after cleaning up and measuring they are fine. One of the 3 exhaust valves was burnt and starting to erode. So I will be ordering some new ones - hopefully stainless. The seats look good but we will see when I lap in the new valves.

Other then putting in the head grooves (which I am still not sold on - any hard facts on whether or not this is beneficial and in what ways?) all my machining and cleaning is done with exception of the Cam pulley. I am going to drill my own offset cam pulley and I will post a detail explanation of how I do it when I am finished.

I guess it is time to order some parts.

Master gasket set
Ring set - std
Crank bearing set - std
Rod bearing set - std
Oil Pump
Water pump
3 stainless exhaust valves
New timing belt

Anyone know the best place to order these from?

Next I am going to rebuild my 5 speed.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:06 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 11:26 pm
Posts: 70
Location: Port Orchard, Washington USA
If you are going to ignore advice and make statements like this:

"Other then putting in the head grooves (which I am still not sold on - any hard facts on whether or not this is beneficial and in what ways?)"

My only reply is: "Have a nice day"

TH


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 1:58 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2009 12:09 am
Posts: 11
Location: KCMO
Put the XFI transmission in today, put in a new clutch while I had it apart. New throwout, pilot bearing, pressure plate and friction disc. Didn't surface the flywheel - I did place an indicator on it and it is very flat all the way across the face. Took a rollock to it and scuffed it up nicely. In fact the clutch I took out must have been placed in recently it looked so nice. Spare clutch is now hanging on the wall :). I changed over the speedo gear to a brown one so my speedo will be closer, Seems about right on the highway.
Even with this XFI transmission which is not the lowest ratio - getting rolling is a bigger reach then with the old transmission, I don't know if I would want to put in a 1.3 swift transmission or not. Maybe after the rebuild, XFI cam, and placing taller 14 inch tires I will think about a the super low ratio again.

Speaking of new parts - I got lucky - new cv's on both sides and good brake pads too.

I did manage to disturb the coolant tube on the back of the motor, I unbolted the connecting tab and gently moved it out if the way but the seal must have been old and crusty cause I have a small leak now.
All is not lost though, I ordered my master gasket kit a couple of days ago along with new bearings and rings for the in driveway rebuild so I will take care of the leak while I have the head off.

I finished making my indexing fixture for drilling advance holes in my cam gear since I milled my head and desire more initial timing anyway. I took pictures and will be posting them later. The fixturing and the indexing is simple and easy to follow for anyone who wanted to do the same. Honestly unless you have the material and the time on your hands with the right equipment and skill I would recommend just buying one. I had some nice scrap I could make mine out of but unless you are going to make a lot of them it is a waste.

I milled my head .030 which should mean my cam is now retarded about 1 1/2 degrees if my math is correct. I have read many peoples posts on where their motor ran best advanced with the XFI cam. Seems to be a lot of different advances being used with varying success. I am drilling my cam with 6,7,8,9 degrees of advance to try and get it into the sweet spot. Most people seem to think that +5 is about right but since my head is milled retarding my timing some I think I should be able to find a good setting in those 4 advances.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:41 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:07 pm
Posts: 56
Location: Sacramento CA
I have a 94 Metro 3cyl 5 speed with XFI mods (tranny, ecu, cam). This 94 model actually came with what they call "upgraded emissions" from factory stock, which included better sensors and such. All the 94 and older ones used 1 wire according to parts manuals, I have to order 95 Metro parts for this car (4 wire Bosch O2).

It runs much smoother than my 92 Metro I had in the mornings when cold cause of the 4 wire O2.

I have been only putting in 5 gallons of gas consistantly till it gets empty and consistantly see 45mpg in city and lots of throttle fun as torque is low end only. If your easy on throttle and shift at the 3k rpm the shift light is calibrated for, you will see much better in the 50's range on XFI stuff.

I still run the 12' tires on stock wheels, got them new from Big O for $260 and 3 year warranty on leaks and nails. Got a nail in one and they just install a new tire.

Would not suggest bigger than 13" or 14" light weight low profile tires too. Rolling resistance on larger wheels will affect acceleration and stress on drivetrain.

_________________
"If it doesnt fit, use a bigger hammer"
"Cheaper, Faster, Better, Pick Any Two"
http://actfast1234.wix.com/itsmycar

- 89 Daihatsu Charade CLX 1.0L MPFI 3cyl 5spd (*SOLD*)
- 01 VW Beetle GLS 1.8L Turbo (*SOLD*)
- 63 Datsun NL320 Sport Truck 4x4 (Converted by Me & Son)
- 04 GMC Yukon (Fam Hauler)
- 92 Suzuki JR50 (Fun Tiny Dirt Bike)
- 84 Dodge B350 Royal High-Top Van (Heavy Item Hauler)
- 92/94 Geo Metro's (Rebuilt & Sold)


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:38 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2009 12:09 am
Posts: 11
Location: KCMO
Is your 94 an XFI from the factory or did you use an XFI computer with it?
I would like to use my 92 XFI computer But I do not know if it will work correctly with the 95 harness and sensors.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:34 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:07 pm
Posts: 56
Location: Sacramento CA
The 94 I have is not a factory XFi. It is the last year of the lighter body style.

The VIN will show an "MR" in it for a standard Metro and and "MS" for an XFi Metro.

These are good cars that get laughed at alot. My friend has a very fast SRT4 and everytime I mention my Metro he chuckles at me. This is the right crowd to ask questions :D

_________________
"If it doesnt fit, use a bigger hammer"
"Cheaper, Faster, Better, Pick Any Two"
http://actfast1234.wix.com/itsmycar

- 89 Daihatsu Charade CLX 1.0L MPFI 3cyl 5spd (*SOLD*)
- 01 VW Beetle GLS 1.8L Turbo (*SOLD*)
- 63 Datsun NL320 Sport Truck 4x4 (Converted by Me & Son)
- 04 GMC Yukon (Fam Hauler)
- 92 Suzuki JR50 (Fun Tiny Dirt Bike)
- 84 Dodge B350 Royal High-Top Van (Heavy Item Hauler)
- 92/94 Geo Metro's (Rebuilt & Sold)


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:52 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:49 am
Posts: 25
Location: hudson, wyo
i know i am reviving an old thread, but i just got here! i am looking into some of this as i am about to reacquire a 95 i used to own. where does the extra 300 lbs. come from? after disassembling a few of these cars i have some answers. differences i have observed: air bag system accounts for around 50 lbs. by itself. my 95 was actually totaled when i bought it the first time, i had to remove the deployed bags. the brakes. the late cars have bigger brakes. discs are larger and thicker. they are solid and quite heavy. the cv shafts. i would guess that they just decided to use the same brakes and shaft on 3&4 cyl, turbo and na. seats are heavy too. doors weigh a little more.


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