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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:16 pm 
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Location: Astatula, Florida
Stumbled across four 5x7 speakers at a salvage yard last week. At three dollars a speakers I had to take them home. Had a "mad scientist crazy idea", how many speakers could one place in a Vert? . Here is my next addition (a work in process). It will fit under the stock rear speaker bridge. Currently I have a passive 3 way system in the front, that's six. Sub in the trunk, that's 7. This will make 11 individual speakers.


Attachments:
Gator Foam Template.jpg
Gator Foam Template.jpg [ 98.25 KIB | Viewed 5926 times ]
jig Saw Work.jpg
jig Saw Work.jpg [ 183.71 KIB | Viewed 5926 times ]
Test Fitting speakers.jpg
Test Fitting speakers.jpg [ 159.77 KIB | Viewed 5926 times ]

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Last edited by speque on Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:00 pm 
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what sort of amplification will you be using to handle the bizarre load that 11 speakers will present?

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1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:08 pm 
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Location: Astatula, Florida
I have a amp under the passenger seat driving the front 6. In the front I'm using two external passive 3-way crossovers feeding a set of 5 1/4 (lows) and tweeters(highs) in a pair of door pods. I'm using the stock dash location for the mids with some modified 4"ers (tweeters removed). Oh and by the way found out that the stock 4" are rated at 10 ohms? The sub was a DVC till last year when one coil shorted. Think that speaker is around 10 years old, so I'm not to disappointed. Currently only using one channel on that amp so will play with the second channel for the time being. Planning the wire pairs in parallel giving me 2 ohms for each pair and wire the pairs in series which should bring me back to 4 ohm. Current thought is using a mono block amp down the line and for "stereo separation" in the rear will add a pair of 6x9s or 6 1/2 component set up in the quarter panels. Have some pics of the dash upgrade but my modem is down and they are in my other computer. Will try to post them in a day or two. Someday I will need an underdrive pulley and your high amp alt set up to get down the road. There is nothing like being 50+, half bald, top down, in a metro, pulling up at a stop light sharing some Funk. Just the thought brings a tear.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 7:39 am 
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funk? you got my attention. :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 11:46 am 
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"Gotta have that funk" (George Clinton - Atomic Dog) Test fit this morning in the car. One showing the mounting brackets. Anybody have 4 speakers grill they don't want?


Attachments:
Test Fit in car.jpg
Test Fit in car.jpg [ 177.93 KIB | Viewed 5872 times ]
Mounting Brackets.jpg
Mounting Brackets.jpg [ 98.4 KIB | Viewed 5872 times ]

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:38 pm 
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i was playing digital undergound - 'sons of the p' to and from work today. :ez_pimp:

i have 9 speakers in my vert not counting the tweeters axially mounted to the mid woofers in the cowl (which would make 11 speakers if i cheated. :wink: )

a little humpty doing 'oregano flow' started my day out with a smile on my face and a bounce in my step. :-P

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1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:32 am 
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Location: Astatula, Florida
Was playing some AC/DC last night(at proper AC/DC listening level) setting at a red light. A police "person" went through the intersection, I saw "him or her" (was dark out) glance my direction. Fortunately is was between two other car and I'm sure he didn't think it was me. I just laughed and turn it down. Grace Jones pull it to the bumper started my drive home to night, ended with Bounce Rock Skate Roll, and some Rick James (God Rest His Soul) in the middle. Will see if I get both the speakers and wing on by the end of the week. Wife picked up a new router, and that's what I'm working on at 1:28am. At least I'm not back in till 1:18pm tomorrow. "Gotta have the Funk"

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 2:36 am 
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Location: Victoria BC
Its not haw many, it is the size that counts.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:46 am 
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If you really believed that whole size thing - wouldn't you only own one really big car =)

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 7:16 am 
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Location: Prince George B.C. Canada
Front, back, left, right and some subs. If you have it set up right, that's all you need. How many speakers you have is just compensating for something :shock:. It's like owning a Vette, right Tommy and Scotty :razz: ?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:12 pm 
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honestly, some of the most advanced and expensive speaker systems are point source, time aligned designs that use the smallest number of drivers possible that will cover the frequency range.

too many drivers with too much distance between the drivers only creates a muddy sound stage. high frequency drivers are especially subject to time alignment errors and will make the ring of cymbals, the decay of a high hat cymbal, and sounds like "ssss" to become blurred in what is called sibilance.

when a crossover point redirects the sound from a midrange driver to a tweeter and the speakers are mounted farther apart, the sound stage subtley shifts and wrecks the job the recording engineers did when they made their piece.

it's not always about how many speakers you have or how loud the noise is that they make. cars are a different environment than your living room. that's a given. however, the industry has worked really hard to bring a real musical experience to cars. the digital revolution has made it possible for car audio electronics to match a difficult environment with correctly aligned time and frequency response.

the old tower of power, wall of sound days are long gone and if you want accurate reproduction of music in a car environment you are much better off using fewer high quality speakers with sufficient power located in positions that provide the proper sound stage.

unless you listen to live music with your back to the stage, all those speakers mounted in the rear of the car don't do anything to reproduce a true and accurate sound.

that represents my personal opinion and my personal design basis for car stereo. :wink:

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SAAB Sonett II


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 7:56 pm 
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Location: Astatula, Florida
I'll let you all in on a little known information about me and my audio experience. I have made my living over the past 15+ years in the pro audio field. I currently mix on audio consoles that cost more than most cars on this site and speaker systems that cost more than the sum of most personal collections of cars on this site. I actually own a portable RTA and impedance meter (not an app). 8)

That being said some of you may need to ween off the caffeine and reread the beginning of this thread. Thought the $3 salvage yard speakers / mad scientist comment would have set the tone of the project. By the way due to lack of "Fun-ds" and my 1800w sub amp blowing this project is on hold.

Loved the "compensating for something" comment, all though not very original and was actually an oxymoron coming from person who seems to have some kind of multi-car owning fetish they can't control. (I hope you know I am just having fun here).

Yes point source may be the best coherent sound but try to hit every seat with; the same volume level, same frequency response (20Hz-20kHz), with out using a crossovers, what about stereo imaging, let's not forget surround sound (or maybe your head unit doesn't do that), and in a car (convertible)?

Time alignment is also wonderful providing that you have a unit that has multiple adjustable outputs. We have those units in pro sound but not so much in car audio. Of course you would not purchase one of those cheap unit that don't compensate for temperature and humidity. Nay don't forget to purchase you measuring equipment/system and that $1K Earthworks measurement mic.

Glass is has one of the worst acoustical properties. Not only dose reflect the original sound but also vibrates putting off its own refection. I haven't heard of anyone ever putting sound absorbing mat on their windows.

Need I go on? Using you best Bone's (Dr McCoy - Star Trek) voice here - "For God's sakes Jim - I'm a doctor - that's a convertible metro!"

Keep the top down and the music (ain't noise pollution) up - hope you do the same.

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I spit on hybrids at stop lights.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 9:40 pm 
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it's all for fun. :lol:

my mid-priced sony head unit has 3 stages of digital sound stage enhancement and 7 band frequency adjustment along with low, mid, and high tone controls. my amps have aphex processing. that's a far cry from the automatic radio and kraco car stereo i started out with 40 years ago. :wink:

price these days is hardly a reason for bad car audio either. i have less in the system in my red vert than i have in just one bang & olufsen turntable.

the first high end emporium i lined up for distributing my 1984 model ric dynamics active subwoofer crossovers and my phase aligned class a preamplifier was the house of stereo in jacksonville so i've been in the game for a long time myself. i had a friend named ando perandi who went to the ohio state university school of engineering about the same time i did who modified the old dynaco stereo components for a stereo shop, van alstine, in minnesota. we shared a lot of ideas on power supply technology, filter design, and the subtleties of maintaining phasing across a wide frequency spectrum. i had access to the very best electronics lab in the world and pioneered laser back scatter tech to observe and measure the flex of speaker cones in an effort to find a material and a design which would result in low distortion, truly pistonic movement in the cones of subwoofers running at high excursions. that lead to the development of a lot of high tech materials used in speaker supension spiders and cone surrounds. i helped to set up one of the first fast transform fourier data acquisition systems in an anechoic chamber to do frequency analyses of transducers. that system was used by most big audio design firms well through the 1990s.

i built a big phased array speaker system with 64 electrostatic ribbon tweeters in 84 for my home stereo when i was using the same math for another application. i've been a serious audiophile for 37 years, an electrical engineer for 30 years, and an electronics technician for 6 years before that.

i've given up on car audio a number of times through all the years. it would show promise and i'd put a system together, i'd get disappointed by the results and get out of it for a few years before i'd jump back in. about 6 years ago i got back into car audio and found that the gear had finally improved to the point where i could get a decent sounding system put together without breaking my budget. i've sort of gotten a main plan down on verts since i've done many of them. i tend to use amps and speakers that i'm fond of even though the company has been out of business for 5 years so even now i'm sort of behind the current amplifier technology, class d amps and the like.

i wasn't picking on you or slamming your car stereo. i was just commenting on my view of speaker system design for a car stereo. :D

_________________
1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:35 pm 
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Location: Astatula, Florida
6x9 crickets two-way ruled back in the day. Had a under-dash cassette, "slide out" bracket and don't remember the stereo amp (remember the night it went up in smoke). I'm to old to be offended - this site rocks and so do the people that live here. You all have inspired me to push my mechanical and Vert to the $$$ limit I can afford. two more years and she'll qualify for antique plates (and probably me as well). One more quote and good night " Lovin' every minute of it!" :yeahyeah

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If your using more than 3 cylinders your just wasting gas.
I spit on hybrids at stop lights.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:24 pm 
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Location: Astatula, Florida
Stepped back for a while and now I've almost getting serious about a "BIG" upgrade to the system. Found a 6 gauge wire kit for under $10 w/ship and had to order it. While waiting I'm looking at trying to do some damping to the body. Have started using some spray rubber undercoat that I had laying around. Pulling back some carpet and started thinking bout how much I wanted to coat. I was junk yard-ing today actually pick up 4 squares of dynamat and pulled some thicker carpet padding to add to the trunk. Looked at some padding of some hoods but seemed a bit thin. I need your opinions on areas that the Vert's need the most help with damping (on a junk yard dog budget)?

The "Speaker God" has been smiling upon me as I have found a matching set of Infinity 6x9s to the 5x7s while junkin' last month. Started the cut out of the rear side panels for them. Will have some pics coming - now I need to find matching grills?

Also was given a 400 watt mono amp so at least I have a working sub. 5" speakers with no sub to back them up was so embarrassing. :oops: It dose seem to clip while playing some AC/DC. Can you play "Thunder Struck" to loud?

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If your using more than 3 cylinders your just wasting gas.
I spit on hybrids at stop lights.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:37 pm 
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Location: Astatula, Florida
Yes a 6x9 speaker will fit (test fit)! :mrgreen:


Attachments:
6x9 test fit.jpg
6x9 test fit.jpg [ 8.57 KIB | Viewed 5646 times ]

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If your using more than 3 cylinders your just wasting gas.
I spit on hybrids at stop lights.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 12:48 am 
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Location: Astatula, Florida
To cool this morning to spray - So I took the padding and cut it down to fit the truck instead. Cant put any numbers on it but the wife said it did sound a little quieter. Pics 1.The find (no charge from the yard). 2. Thicker is better. 3 Cut to size. 4. Checking fit.

May have 4 matching Infinity Kappa 63.l1 available for sell - any interest before Xmas?


Attachments:
The Find.jpg
The Find.jpg [ 47.8 KIB | Viewed 5628 times ]
Thickness.jpg
Thickness.jpg [ 46.22 KIB | Viewed 5628 times ]
Pattern.jpg
Pattern.jpg [ 31.35 KIB | Viewed 5628 times ]
Cut and Installed.jpg
Cut and Installed.jpg [ 33.95 KIB | Viewed 5628 times ]

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If your using more than 3 cylinders your just wasting gas.
I spit on hybrids at stop lights.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 7:58 pm 
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Location: Astatula, Florida
As for a previous discussion the holes phase/time alignment issue. I ran across two nuggets you may find interesting. One is a unit built by JBL MS-8 matrix processing unit. Check it out
http://www.jbl.com/estore/jbl/us/produc ... =cat140033

Second is a company making all kinds of audio DSP units that you program, then use as a stand alone device that will run on 12 volts.
http://www.minidsp.com/

Dat's some cool stuff 8)

Had to make an emergency trip to the junk yard on Friday. I pulled more padding, 8gauge wire, and a few more speakers to sell (to fund the research).

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If your using more than 3 cylinders your just wasting gas.
I spit on hybrids at stop lights.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:15 am 
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Location: Astatula, Florida
Pull out a RTA (real time analyzer). So you understand what you looking at.This meter shows the audio that you hear in a graph form. Left to right is the frequencies 20Hz to 20Khz in 31 steps (about 3 keys on a piano). Up and down is the SPL (volume) from 50 to 110 db. Each dotted gray line across is 10 db step. The first picture is the motor on at idle, the second is driving at 50 mph. Looking at it I think the use of spay on undercoat may not be of much help in deadening the lower frequencies. The last bar in the left is the current max volume,also shows in the upper right. Surprised at the volume level at both idle and driving.
Also first 6x9 installed with grill!


Attachments:
SPL Motor Only.jpg [67.17 KIB]
Not downloaded yet
SPL at 50.jpg
SPL at 50.jpg [ 10.96 KIB | Viewed 5499 times ]
6x9 installed II.jpg
6x9 installed II.jpg [ 9.79 KIB | Viewed 5499 times ]

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If your using more than 3 cylinders your just wasting gas.
I spit on hybrids at stop lights.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:04 pm 
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Location: Astatula, Florida
Bartered some speakers for a old Legacy amp to drive the 6x9's. Added some carpet padding under the area where the top folds into and out to the sides. This area and the truck seems to be good area to work on as it will make a noticeable difference with the top is up. Also cut a piece of foam and glued it to the Trunk back panel. Will be using some of that in some doors and wanted to play with it before trying the doors. Do think it made any difference on the Vert (maybe help keep the license plate from rattling). More pics


Attachments:
Legacy 800w.jpg
Legacy 800w.jpg [ 24.69 KIB | Viewed 5389 times ]
Rear panel.jpg
Rear panel.jpg [ 34.94 KIB | Viewed 5389 times ]

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If your using more than 3 cylinders your just wasting gas.
I spit on hybrids at stop lights.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:42 pm 
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Location: Astatula, Florida
latest update, ran across a used Kole 2400w mono block amp at a local thrift store. Pic shows a price of $35.00 but walked out (frequent shopper discount) paying $30. Hook it up a few weeks back and bingo. Swapped locations with current rear speaker amp and hearing is believing. Ran across some 4g wire at a junk yard (had to have it) and started to pull it the firewall. Looks like an bigger alternator upgrade needs to be done this summer.


Attachments:
Kole amp 3.jpg
Kole amp 3.jpg [ 27.33 KIB | Viewed 5202 times ]
Kole amp 2.jpg
Kole amp 2.jpg [ 35.49 KIB | Viewed 5202 times ]
Kole Amp.jpg
Kole Amp.jpg [ 16.2 KIB | Viewed 5202 times ]
4 gauge wire.jpg
4 gauge wire.jpg [ 13.05 KIB | Viewed 5202 times ]

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If your using more than 3 cylinders your just wasting gas.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:08 pm 
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Location: Astatula, Florida
Short term set back. Two weeks ago I blew out/up my 10"DVC sub :cry: . Could of been to much power, to old or maybe a combination of the two. Two days ago a buddy at work who gave up a truck and bought a Harley gave me one (12 incher) :P . Current box in the trunk is a half inch to short to cut out for the 12-er. Currently storing the speaker behind the seat while waiting for a new box. Just so you know the speaker will ride on the little ledge just fine even with being tied down. Here are a few pics
Anyone ever tried to make custom fiberglass trunk corner sub boxes with success?


Attachments:
Blown 10.jpg
Blown 10.jpg [ 36.4 KIB | Viewed 5133 times ]
New sub.jpg
New sub.jpg [ 61.92 KIB | Viewed 5133 times ]

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If your using more than 3 cylinders your just wasting gas.
I spit on hybrids at stop lights.
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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 8:45 pm 
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Location: Astatula, Florida
Crammed the 12 in the box that held my 10. Still hit harder and lower than the DVC 10. If you can shoehorn a 12 in yo boot - I'd do it. This sub is 8 ohm and since it doesn't draw the current as bad through the amp my lights don't dim! Have to come up with another reason to do the 130 amp alt conversion. Maybe I can get a bigger amp for the front speakers.

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If your using more than 3 cylinders your just wasting gas.
I spit on hybrids at stop lights.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:42 pm 
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Location: Astatula, Florida
During a my top swap and cleaning up after a heater core leak/replacement this summer. I've been mass loading with the Lowes version of sound deadening material (TITE-SEAL 4-in x 33-ft Rubberized Asphalt Flashing). I have covered the cabin, doors and trunk areas. Pulled out my RTA today a took a measurement. 8db of noise reduction was the result! It changed the way the car feels driving down the road. Even the wife agrees. After a Florida summer there has been no tar smell,nor has the material come unstuck. Added a 4 gauge power line to the trunk. Also cut some rubber matting placed it between the floor board and new carpet padding.


Attachments:
Mass Loading Seat.jpg
Mass Loading Seat.jpg [ 28.69 KIB | Viewed 4529 times ]
RTA Idle Post.jpg
RTA Idle Post.jpg [ 20.01 KIB | Viewed 4529 times ]
Rubber Matting.jpg
Rubber Matting.jpg [ 19.47 KIB | Viewed 4529 times ]

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:23 pm 
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Location: columbus, ohio
did you ever line up the parts to do the cs130 alternator mod?

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1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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