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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:56 pm 
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So I recently made the mistake of engaging my starter for a fraction of a second with the timing belt off. (I know it was stupid and should have disconnected my batt) I want to post my crank and cam gears to see if it looks like I need to adjust.

Image
Image


should I be good to go? or should I adjust?

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1989 Suzuki Swift GTi
1987 Suzuki Samurai JL
2006 Suzuki Grand Vitara
1999 Pontiac Trans Am


Last edited by mercury on Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:00 pm 
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Location: Palm Springs: Too hot from June to Oct.!
Confucius say:
http://www.teamswift.net/Lihtan/gti/timing02.pdf

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DIY Broken Bolt Removal: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41042
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DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:04 pm 
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So everything needs to be top dead center?

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1987 Suzuki Samurai JL
2006 Suzuki Grand Vitara
1999 Pontiac Trans Am


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:34 pm 
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Location: Palm Springs: Too hot from June to Oct.!
Even though it is an automatic, your engine is the same as the stick shift.
You are allowed 20 degrees left and right of top dead center for the cams.
You are allowed 90 degrees left and right of top dead center for the crank.

You'd better align them according to the diagram.
Why not post a picture of your whole engine compartment so we can see your progress.

In the future, you'll do better to just work on ONE thing.
That way, if it is better, you proceed to the next item.
If it is worse, you will know what you did that screwed it up.

Right now, you've got a thread going about coolant and a thread going about timing marks.

It might be a good time to let your help know exactly what your plans are, so you don't waste their time. One fellow has told you to swap in new coolant.
But if you are in the process of changing a water pump, then you could easily do that.
If you are changing a head gasket, there probably is no reason to turn over the crankshaft.

1.) What exactly is your goal? new pump/new head gasket/ new???
2.) Why did you hit the starter with no timing belt on the engine???
3.) Was it necessary to 'top off' the overflow tank prior to your work?

Pretend that the car cost you $40K as you work on it.
As you improve your mechanical techniques, you will eventually work on cars that cost $40K.

We have an identical car (in Red) and know the best way to get our money OUT of the car is to DRIVE it, so I speak from experience.
We change ONE variable (thermostat/radiator/alternator/etc.) and see if the car improves.
The car continues to be used as a daily driver and has never stranded us.
Learn to be patient and change ONE thing at a time, then when you become more of an expert you can do the 'shotgun' approach. Even seasoned technicians, when they swap in a bunch of things: (engine rebuilt, new timing belts, pumps, accessories) sometimes have problems after extensive repairs, so don't get discouraged. The link I gave you shows the correct orientation of the cam and crank orientations. You can find other locations
Image
which give more detailed instructions
Image
if you go to the download section, get the Factory Service Manual and read it.
The pages you need, take the time to memorize them, including the tightness (torque settings) for the bolts and tensioner. Don't use the "old school back yard, shade tree, pepper tree mechanics methods for tightening the alternator belt" with the timing belt. It requires a different type of adjustment.
If you cannot read the writing on the pictures above, hold down the control key on your keyboard and hit 'plus' until you can.

That's my two cents.

_________________
DIY Broken Bolt Removal: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41042
DIY Clutch Adjustment: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48281
DIY Wheel Bearings: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29003
DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:39 pm 
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Location: Palm Springs: Too hot from June to Oct.!
Almost forgot:
Nice pictures.
It looks like you need to replace the seals while you have it that far apart.
Spend a little time with a spray bottle of Simple Green or Purple Power and a toothbrush.
Then rinse that thing off.
Repeat until the engine is as clean as one of Suprf1y's engines!
8) 8) 8)

_________________
DIY Broken Bolt Removal: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41042
DIY Clutch Adjustment: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48281
DIY Wheel Bearings: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29003
DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:44 pm 
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First off, thank you for the reply! I seriously appreciate it.

I bought this car from some guy in the woods (no joke.) The car was in pretty rough shape and actually broke down on the way home. The over flow tank had some coolant in it when I bought the car and still had some after the 2 hr drive home. I was concerned because the coolant looked a little off. I started flushing the coolant system and thats when my water pump went out. I was still curious about the head gasket though.

1.) What exactly is your goal? New water pump
2.) Why did you hit the starter with no timing belt on the engine??? i had to unlock the steering column, starter clicked on for 1/10 of second
3.) Was it necessary to 'top off' the overflow tank prior to your work? As stated above, only when I was driving it home, but it did not deplete when I got back

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1989 Suzuki Swift GTi
1987 Suzuki Samurai JL
2006 Suzuki Grand Vitara
1999 Pontiac Trans Am


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:14 pm 
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So... Your timing belt is on but you do not know if it is set right. And you know you blipped the engine.... Before the belt was put on.
Advice.... I would be lifting the cam cover, unbolting the cams.....setting the bottom crank to tdc. Setting the top cams to tdc as per the pics... And start again. Is that a new cam belt?
Oh and clean like they said....and. The rest. Otherwise there is no way you can guarantee that there is not an interference issue.... Is that good advice

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Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.HP is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how much you push the wall out.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:19 pm 
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the belt appears fairly new. So unbolt the cams... Should I remove them or let them rest?

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1989 Suzuki Swift GTi
1987 Suzuki Samurai JL
2006 Suzuki Grand Vitara
1999 Pontiac Trans Am


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:16 pm 
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mercury wrote:
the belt appears fairly new. So unbolt the cams... Should I remove them or let them rest?

Let them rest.
Here's the thing about the timing belt.
They are designed to stretch once. So if you use it again, then the already stretched belt gets tensioned again.
It's your choice, no one else's. No matter what anyone says.
I know I would be replacing it. They are not supposed to get oil or crap on them either. That life's them short...

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Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.HP is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how much you push the wall out.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:35 am 
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Anybody know the torque specs for the cam retainer bolts??

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1989 Suzuki Swift GTi
1987 Suzuki Samurai JL
2006 Suzuki Grand Vitara
1999 Pontiac Trans Am


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:33 pm 
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Pulled this directly from suzuki service manual. I would just snug them up, the last thing you want to do is strip the head, because the bolts are harder than the cylinder head.

Chris

Image
Image

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:56 am 
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The car started up, the timing belt moved to the side a little bit, I then installed the crank pulley and it seems to stay in line. When I lowered the motor, I seemed to have caused an exhaust leak though.

Here is a video, the motor sounds a little rough, I assume I need to adjust the dist timing?


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1989 Suzuki Swift GTi
1987 Suzuki Samurai JL
2006 Suzuki Grand Vitara
1999 Pontiac Trans Am


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:07 am 
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Location: Palm Springs: Too hot from June to Oct.!
Thanks for the video. Yes, it does sound like an exhaust leak.
You've done a tremendous job!
Just an opinion: it seems a bit 'retarded' as far as timing.
The idle will go up a lot when you advance the distributor.
This is normal on a cold engine.

Again, only an opinion. Maybe someone with more experience will chime in.

_________________
DIY Broken Bolt Removal: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41042
DIY Clutch Adjustment: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48281
DIY Wheel Bearings: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29003
DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:37 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:23 am
Posts: 178
Location: Mount Vernon, WA
Phil N Ed wrote:
Even though it is an automatic, your engine is the same as the stick shift.
You are allowed 20 degrees left and right of top dead center for the cams.
You are allowed 90 degrees left and right of top dead center for the crank.

You'd better align them according to the diagram.
Why not post a picture of your whole engine compartment so we can see your progress.

In the future, you'll do better to just work on ONE thing.
That way, if it is better, you proceed to the next item.
If it is worse, you will know what you did that screwed it up.

Right now, you've got a thread going about coolant and a thread going about timing marks.

It might be a good time to let your help know exactly what your plans are, so you don't waste their time. One fellow has told you to swap in new coolant.
But if you are in the process of changing a water pump, then you could easily do that.
If you are changing a head gasket, there probably is no reason to turn over the crankshaft.

1.) What exactly is your goal? new pump/new head gasket/ new???
2.) Why did you hit the starter with no timing belt on the engine???
3.) Was it necessary to 'top off' the overflow tank prior to your work?

Pretend that the car cost you $40K as you work on it.
As you improve your mechanical techniques, you will eventually work on cars that cost $40K.

We have an identical car (in Red) and know the best way to get our money OUT of the car is to DRIVE it, so I speak from experience.
We change ONE variable (thermostat/radiator/alternator/etc.) and see if the car improves.
The car continues to be used as a daily driver and has never stranded us.
Learn to be patient and change ONE thing at a time, then when you become more of an expert you can do the 'shotgun' approach. Even seasoned technicians, when they swap in a bunch of things: (engine rebuilt, new timing belts, pumps, accessories) sometimes have problems after extensive repairs, so don't get discouraged. The link I gave you shows the correct orientation of the cam and crank orientations. You can find other locations
Image
which give more detailed instructions
Image
if you go to the download section, get the Factory Service Manual and read it.
The pages you need, take the time to memorize them, including the tightness (torque settings) for the bolts and tensioner. Don't use the "old school back yard, shade tree, pepper tree mechanics methods for tightening the alternator belt" with the timing belt. It requires a different type of adjustment.
If you cannot read the writing on the pictures above, hold down the control key on your keyboard and hit 'plus' until you can.

That's my two cents.



I have a download of 1989 FSM, and I know it is different from the FSM above. Wondering what year this FSM is from? The reason being the idler tension spring is set from the top of the bracket to the screw set to the right of it in the above FSM. The 1989 FSM is spring is set to the bottom of the bracket to the screw below that is on the oil pump. I have a 1992 suzuki swift 1.3 dohc. The location does effect the tension on the idler pulley on the timing belt. If anyone knows which year goes to which one please post. Thanks


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:15 pm 
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Solerpower wrote:
I have a download of 1989 FSM, and I know it is different from the FSM above. Wondering what year this FSM is from? The reason being the idler tension spring is set from the top of the bracket to the screw set to the right of it in the above FSM. The 1989 FSM is spring is set to the bottom of the bracket to the screw below that is on the oil pump. I have a 1992 suzuki swift 1.3 dohc. The location does effect the tension on the idler pulley on the timing belt. If anyone knows which year goes to which one please post. Thanks

The spring doesn't effect the belt tension or tensioner in any way. It is an assist to help with setting up the tensioner. Like a third hand - can be helpful but usually just gets in the way.
Any car I work on, I remove the spring as it is a known failure point - breaks and drops in to the belt / lower pully, destroys the belt and bends the valves.


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