TeamSwift

Home of the Suzuki mini-compacts ! Your Home for all things Suzuki Swift, Geo Metro, Holden Barina, Chevy Sprint, Pontiac Firefly, and Suzuki Cultus. TeamSwift is a technical performance oriented community!
It is currently Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:15 am

Underbody braces, turbos and more!

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:33 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 9:37 am
Posts: 1172
Location: Memphis, TN
On the 1.3 DOHC at tdc, where are the lobes supposed to point on the intake and exhaust? On mine, the intake points to the rear of the car and the exhaust points to the front of the car. As is, it will run but I have to cock the distributor past where it bolts down. You can see how I have the dizzy in the pic. Also the car won't idle below 1k good. I had a mechanic to get it running and I think he changed the cam gears. Fainya tried telling me how the lobes should be positioned but am so scared of bending valves with this thing.
Image

http://teamswift.net/gallery/image_page.php?album_id=1&image_id=21381

If anybody had a pic of their running GT at TDC, that'd be great.

_________________
94 Swift GTi 5spd
94 3cyl automatic 4 door


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:46 pm
Posts: 809
Location: Great Falls ,Mt.
You could try reading through the sticky thread at the top of the DOHC page. You will find a world of information.
http://www.teamswift.net/Lihtan/gti/timing01.pdf

Ken.......


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 9:37 am
Posts: 1172
Location: Memphis, TN
Maybe I wasn't clear enough. I know how to set it at tdc but I'm trying to see where the actual cam lobes should be pointing when it's at tdc.

_________________
94 Swift GTi 5spd
94 3cyl automatic 4 door


Last edited by T Bell on Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:00 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:17 pm
Posts: 1410
Location: Alberta, Canada
Using the cam lobe position is not the correct way to set cam timing. Use the diagram provided, it's accurate and easy to see if things are right. With the marks on the pulleys straight up and crank aligned there is no way to bend valves. Lobes will be in correct position.

_________________
1995 Swift w/16V 4.39s, 3tech cam, Esteem t-body, Header, needs more.
1995 Gt Mustang "Boss Shinoda" package.
1999 F150 4x4 Supercharged
1967 Mustang 428 auto, never ending expensive project
1993 Civic si h22a, fell in my lap, couldn't resist!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:45 pm 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 11:30 pm
Posts: 1706
Location: Rivendell
Think about it.
TDC is the point on #1 cylinder when the piston is at its maximum height on the firing stroke.
That is, after the intake is closed and before the exhaust opens.
You don't need a book to work out that the intake lobe must be off the lifter on its way past and the exhaust lobe must be off the lifter on its way toward opening the valve.
Agree with above post. Its not something you need to concern yourself with and you cannot change this excepting having adjustable cam gears which make single degree changes, not quantum angular leaps.

Focus on ensuring the cam gears and the crank pulley are lining up to the moarks with the belt installed. You may be a tooth off. its easy to do.

_________________
Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.HP is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how much you push the wall out.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:53 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 9:37 am
Posts: 1172
Location: Memphis, TN
ellpee wrote:
Think about it.
TDC is the point on #1 cylinder when the piston is at its maximum height on the firing stroke.
That is, after the intake is closed and before the exhaust opens.
You don't need a book to work out that the intake lobe must be off the lifter on its way past and the exhaust lobe must be off the lifter on its way toward opening the valve.
Agree with above post.


Very informative ellpee, but the cam gear has two locations that you can install it. According to what you state, the car can still run. If you look at my picture, you can see that the cam lobe is off the lifter. But if it is supposed to be pointed at another location (anywhere between where it's at and straight up), it will also run. The biggest reason I ask is because the distributor won't line up to where I can bolt up down. I have to have it cocked way past where it's supposed to be.

_________________
94 Swift GTi 5spd
94 3cyl automatic 4 door


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:38 pm 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 11:30 pm
Posts: 1706
Location: Rivendell
T Bell wrote:
ellpee wrote:
Think about it.
TDC is the point on #1 cylinder when the piston is at its maximum height on the firing stroke.
That is, after the intake is closed and before the exhaust opens.
You don't need a book to work out that the intake lobe must be off the lifter on its way past and the exhaust lobe must be off the lifter on its way toward opening the valve.
Agree with above post.


Very informative ellpee, but the cam gear has two locations that you can install it. According to what you state, the car can still run. If you look at my picture, you can see that the cam lobe is off the lifter. But if it is supposed to be pointed at another location (anywhere between where it's at and straight up), it will also run. The biggest reason I ask is because the distributor won't line up to where I can bolt up down. I have to have it cocked way past where it's supposed to be.


I think what the punters are trying to tell you is IF the crank and cam timing marks are aligned and not 180 out of whack, then the distributor should line up. It feels like you are 180 degrees out. For every two rotations of the crank there is one rotation of the cam. <thinks long and hard whether there would be interference issues...> Suggest you really do scrutinise the alignment marks again for good measure... the only other cause would be if you had for some reason, disassembled the distributor shaft and put the locating pins that key into the camshaft arse about face. Hard to see how far out your dizzie is from the picture I saw.

_________________
Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.HP is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how much you push the wall out.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:23 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:17 pm
Posts: 1410
Location: Alberta, Canada
I'm not near a gt head to confirm this, but know for a fact on the other Engs the cam sprocket locating dowel should point straight down when the crank is at tdc #1. Can you confirm that both dowels are both at straight down/ six o clock position?

_________________
1995 Swift w/16V 4.39s, 3tech cam, Esteem t-body, Header, needs more.
1995 Gt Mustang "Boss Shinoda" package.
1999 F150 4x4 Supercharged
1967 Mustang 428 auto, never ending expensive project
1993 Civic si h22a, fell in my lap, couldn't resist!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:10 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 9:37 am
Posts: 1172
Location: Memphis, TN
Image

Image

Image

and yes the locating pins are on the bottom at the 6 o'clock position

_________________
94 Swift GTi 5spd
94 3cyl automatic 4 door


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:17 pm
Posts: 1410
Location: Alberta, Canada
Are you certain that the crankshaft keyway is in good shape? Something is wrong there somewhere for sure!

_________________
1995 Swift w/16V 4.39s, 3tech cam, Esteem t-body, Header, needs more.
1995 Gt Mustang "Boss Shinoda" package.
1999 F150 4x4 Supercharged
1967 Mustang 428 auto, never ending expensive project
1993 Civic si h22a, fell in my lap, couldn't resist!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:58 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 9:37 am
Posts: 1172
Location: Memphis, TN
I never thought of that, but the car ran fine before I changed the timing belt, broke the distributor tab. Is there a way I can check the crank without pulling everything apart?After that I had a guy fab me another distributor to camshaft "connector". I've ruled out the distributor because it still points to the number 1 cyl when I install it. I know something is out of whack, I'm just trying to rule out everything.

_________________
94 Swift GTi 5spd
94 3cyl automatic 4 door


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 9:37 am
Posts: 1172
Location: Memphis, TN
I found this on checking the key way (without taking the car down).


popeye wrote:
Probably a worn crankshaft keyway.

Remove top cambelt cover, Turn crankshaft to top dead centre, check that cams are exactly where they should be - you may need to rotate crank 2 times. If you need to rotate crank quite a bit more past tdc for the cams marks to line up, then the keyway is damaged. Fix twith JB weld glue, or new crank/machine crank.


Mine passes this test. I have O'Reilly ordering a new distributor so I can compare the tabs and anything else to my distributor. (O'Reilly is awesome). They also list 2 dizzys for a 94 Dohc. Not sure about that but who am I.

I've got another question, are the crank gear dot and the timing mark on the crank pulley supposed to be in the same location?

_________________
94 Swift GTi 5spd
94 3cyl automatic 4 door


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:20 pm 
Offline
Make love, not moderators
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2002 5:26 pm
Posts: 1936
Location: Etobicoke, Ontario
Okay READ CAREFULLY.

Forget all that old world looking for TDC garbage. This isn't american iron. The japanese made this so simple for us and them.

On the INTAKE cam there are 2 DOTS, one has an I next to and the other has an E. I is for intake and E is for exhaust. Now around the bolt that holds the sprocket to the cam there are 2 SLOTS. One with an I and one with an E. So the cam on the intake gets the little nubby on the end of the cam into the slot on the sprocket with the I next to it. The exhaust cam nubby goes into the slot on the sprocket for the exhaust cam with the E next to it. Then you just have to line up the dot with the I on the intake cam with the ridge on the valve cover and the E with the dot on the exhaust cam with it's ridge on the valve cover. Turn the crank so the dot on the crank gear lines up with the arrow on the front of the oil pump and put your belt on.

If you broke your distributor then it was out by 180 degrees when you tried to re-install it. The tabs on the end of it are OFFSET from center so it would only go on one way easily.

If you car still won't run properly you might be out by one or two teeth on the timing belt. After you install the belt you have to turn the engine over TWICE BY HAND using a ratchet or wrench and re-check your timing marks. If they don't line up then you messed up putting the belt on.

_________________
"Don't argue with stupid people. They just bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 12:31 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:40 pm
Posts: 587
Location: Duncan, Oklahoma
Did you ever figure out your problem T Bell. my car does the same thing. all was well until I had the head worked on (new valves and such) by a "professional". I know mine is not the crank. its a new crank that I had the woodruff key slot machined out to fit a keystock so it has more gripping power. then I put a plate on the pulley that fits snug against the crankshaft bolt so It cant back itself off. my timing is dead on. my distributor sits where it should. I am just wanting to know how the cam lobes open, or what order. I need to confirm but im pretty sure when I had the valve cover off replacing freeze plugs last weekend my #3 intake cam lobe was open and #1 exhaust cam lobe was open. Does this sound right. I thought they would be one right after the other. in example #2 intake open and #1 exhaust open at the same time.

_________________
Projects.

1993 Geo Metro LSi
1994 Toyota Pickup

My Car Club Website. Check out Videos of my Swift and all the other Cars in my Club.
http://www.youtube.com/simplexcreationz


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 1:10 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 9:37 am
Posts: 1172
Location: Memphis, TN
Wish I could help but I've since sold my car to my brother. We are supposed to work on it in the next few months. I did get it running but it still wasn't running the way it's supposed to. And I don't remember exactly but I do know the distributor isn't bolted to where it is supposed to be. It is rigged to run. He's not driving it now because the gas tank had pinholes in it. He's driving the blue 4 door until he gets it fixed.

_________________
94 Swift GTi 5spd
94 3cyl automatic 4 door


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 5:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:18 am
Posts: 212
Location: Slovenia
TheINCRide wrote:
Okay READ CAREFULLY.

Forget all that old world looking for TDC garbage. This isn't american iron. The japanese made this so simple for us and them.

On the INTAKE cam there are 2 DOTS, one has an I next to and the other has an E. I is for intake and E is for exhaust. Now around the bolt that holds the sprocket to the cam there are 2 SLOTS. One with an I and one with an E. So the cam on the intake gets the little nubby on the end of the cam into the slot on the sprocket with the I next to it. The exhaust cam nubby goes into the slot on the sprocket for the exhaust cam with the E next to it. Then you just have to line up the dot with the I on the intake cam with the ridge on the valve cover and the E with the dot on the exhaust cam with it's ridge on the valve cover. Turn the crank so the dot on the crank gear lines up with the arrow on the front of the oil pump and put your belt on.

If you broke your distributor then it was out by 180 degrees when you tried to re-install it. The tabs on the end of it are OFFSET from center so it would only go on one way easily.

If you car still won't run properly you might be out by one or two teeth on the timing belt. After you install the belt you have to turn the engine over TWICE BY HAND using a ratchet or wrench and re-check your timing marks. If they don't line up then you messed up putting the belt on.


THIS! if all parts are stock you can't make mistake..


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 5:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:18 am
Posts: 212
Location: Slovenia
bigdog6933 wrote:
Did you ever figure out your problem T Bell. my car does the same thing. all was well until I had the head worked on (new valves and such) by a "professional". I know mine is not the crank. its a new crank that I had the woodruff key slot machined out to fit a keystock so it has more gripping power. then I put a plate on the pulley that fits snug against the crankshaft bolt so It cant back itself off. my timing is dead on. my distributor sits where it should. I am just wanting to know how the cam lobes open, or what order. I need to confirm but im pretty sure when I had the valve cover off replacing freeze plugs last weekend my #3 intake cam lobe was open and #1 exhaust cam lobe was open. Does this sound right. I thought they would be one right after the other. in example #2 intake open and #1 exhaust open at the same time.



here's picture of my engine when i had it opened up.. not 100% sure but it should be in right position..
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:40 pm
Posts: 587
Location: Duncan, Oklahoma
mine sits just like that. so my problem is not in my head. I did an alternator test today and the alt is not holding up under a load. so that might be part of it. also I know my tps is screwy

_________________
Projects.

1993 Geo Metro LSi
1994 Toyota Pickup

My Car Club Website. Check out Videos of my Swift and all the other Cars in my Club.
http://www.youtube.com/simplexcreationz


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot] and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group