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 Post subject: Exhaust Header
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:06 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 11:22 am
Posts: 20
Location: GREECE
Hi guys,

Do we have any info about 4-2-1 header.I have the flange cut.And trying to fab a stainless header rwd for the sierra.
should i start from 1 1/2 first brach to 1 5/8 second brach to a 1 3/4 tailpipe?Or keep it 1 5/8 till the end?
I need 15" primaries and about 20" secondaries to maintain the low to mid rpm is this right?


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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Header
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:04 am 
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Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 11:22 am
Posts: 20
Location: GREECE
sgr16v wrote:
Hi guys,

Do we have any info about 4-2-1 header.I have the flange cut.And trying to fab a stainless header rwd for the sierra.
should i start from 1 1/2 first brach to 1 5/8 second brach to a 1 3/4 tailpipe?Or keep it 1 5/8 till the end?
I need 15" primaries and about 20" secondaries to maintain the low to mid rpm is this right?



Anyone on this?I have a gti sierra that needs a header. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Header
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:41 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:46 pm
Posts: 883
Location: Arizona
What is GTi Sierra ?? Like Ford Sierra ? Why would anyone on this forum know anything about Ford Sierra? This is Suzuki forum.


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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Header
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:42 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 10:08 pm
Posts: 625
Location: texas houston
i think it is a samurai with a g 13b


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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Header
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:01 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:46 pm
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Location: Arizona
Only rwd Sierra I know of is this one


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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Header
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:55 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:18 am
Posts: 212
Location: Slovenia
Quote:
it was sold with a multitude of names: Suzuki SJ410/413, Suzuki Samurai, Suzuki Sierra, Suzuki Potohar (Pakistan), Suzuki Caribian (Thailand), Suzuki Katana (Indonesia), Chevrolet Samurai, Holden Drover (Australia) and Maruti Gypsy (India).


i spoke with australian guy (from Perth) few years ago and he claimed he had suzuki sierra.. i didn't believe him until i googled it..

and i guess this guy have samurai with G13B engine..

imo keep stock 4 to 2 header, it's good enough.. just make new 2 to 1 since there is most power lost.. but i have no idea for piping size..


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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Header
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:05 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 11:22 am
Posts: 20
Location: GREECE
:D Yes its a samurai gti.Internet sites like http://www.auszookers.com/ call it a suzuki sierra so, i used this name.
I was thinking something like those and the first one is better due to easy of installation (expept merging 4-1 pistons and 2-3 together)!


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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Header
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:10 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 11:22 am
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Location: GREECE
lukak wrote:
Quote:
it was sold with a multitude of names: Suzuki SJ410/413, Suzuki Samurai, Suzuki Sierra, Suzuki Potohar (Pakistan), Suzuki Caribian (Thailand), Suzuki Katana (Indonesia), Chevrolet Samurai, Holden Drover (Australia) and Maruti Gypsy (India).


i spoke with australian guy (from Perth) few years ago and he claimed he had suzuki sierra.. i didn't believe him until i googled it..

and i guess this guy have samurai with G13B engine..

imo keep stock 4 to 2 header, it's good enough.. just make new 2 to 1 since there is most power lost.. but i have no idea for piping size..


Yes it is a good design for having more scavenging effect and better torque for low to mid range.I don't use the cast 4-2 because of the differect engine mount.I have to weld a new 4-2 and 2-1 downpipe for rwd design.But maybe if i have room i will go for a complete welded not bolted design after 4-2.
What do you think?


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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Header
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:38 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 10:08 pm
Posts: 625
Location: texas houston
that first one is a calmini. And that design does work for mid range. They had auto x in mind when they designed it.


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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Header
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:29 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:18 am
Posts: 212
Location: Slovenia
make a copy of 2nd or 3rd picture..
search around for pipes diameters and lenghts.. i didn't hear for lot's of guys around here that made custom headers.. but maybe someone that have genie (or similar) 4-2-1 header can tell you diameters and lenghts..

ohh and about that "funny" calmini header.. my friend have similar header (1+3 and 2+4) on fiat panda kit car for rally.. after that he have 2-1 i think about 60cm long.. about 3cm diameter.. from there on it's 6cm diameter with resonator in the middle and racing cat at the end.. he got 116hp and 147nm out of it.. but it's completly different engine.. (72.5mm bore x 84mm stroke and 8valves for start)


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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Header
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:17 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 10:08 pm
Posts: 625
Location: texas houston
DTM GTi wrote:
Only rwd Sierra I know of is this one

cossworth sierra. I would love to import one of those.


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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Header
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:51 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:47 pm
Posts: 11669
Location: columbus, ohio
the calmini header just replaced the cast part of the stock manifold and used the factory 2-1 pipe to join the tube header to the exhaust pipe.

_________________
1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Header
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:45 am 
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Location: GREECE
t3 ragtop wrote:
the calmini header just replaced the cast part of the stock manifold and used the factory 2-1 pipe to join the tube header to the exhaust pipe.


What about merging 1-4 cylinders and not 1-3 like calmini?I read that it is the right firing order..


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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Header
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:10 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:18 am
Posts: 212
Location: Slovenia
sgr16v wrote:
t3 ragtop wrote:
the calmini header just replaced the cast part of the stock manifold and used the factory 2-1 pipe to join the tube header to the exhaust pipe.


What about merging 1-4 cylinders and not 1-3 like calmini?I read that it is the right firing order..


both versions work.. i like 1-4 and 2-3 more (it's more common too) but i'm no expert and i don't have much idea how gases flow work (in details) so make whatever you think it's best..
but in calmini desigh you need custom 2-1 as stock is shit...


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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Header
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:08 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 2:23 pm
Posts: 186
Location: Chicago, IL
I just got so excited I jumped on the Protoxide.it site to order that header then saw that they had a turbo manifold as well!! They reality sunk in that it was almost $600 USD for the header and even more for the Turbo mani :cry:


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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Header
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:32 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 11:22 am
Posts: 20
Location: GREECE
zuku26 wrote:
I just got so excited I jumped on the Protoxide.it site to order that header then saw that they had a turbo manifold as well!! They reality sunk in that it was almost $600 USD for the header and even more for the Turbo mani :cry:


Yes it is an expensive header but again is stainless..i will try to copy the design in my local exhaust shop. :? Its gonna be cheaper for sure! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Header
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 5:29 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:43 pm
Posts: 720
Location: Texas 75150
Pictures of a real Genie header.

Attachment:
IMG_2706.JPG
IMG_2706.JPG [ 521.68 KIB | Viewed 3703 times ]


Attachment:
IMG_3247.JPG
IMG_3247.JPG [ 579.11 KIB | Viewed 3703 times ]

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97 Geo Metro LSI,1.3L-GT-DOHC-16v,4.10 5-speed,A/C,170,000,suspension lowered 1",4 wheel disk brakes,15"alloy wheels with 185/50-15 Toyo's,GT bucket seats,analog oil pressure gauge,cruise control, new paint job. 40 mpg at 65 mph.
Good, fast, cheap. You only get two.


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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Header
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:55 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:10 am
Posts: 340
Location: Palm Springs, Calif
This 4-2-1 chromed design stays well hidden from visiting Teamswift members til bolted on its new home:
:twisted:

Image

Notice the flex line to reduce vibration and the stock hangar.
The EGR is a must for those of us with emissions testing in California.

I couldn't tell you its origin, but the picture doesn't do it justice.


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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Header
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 1:14 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:47 pm
Posts: 11669
Location: columbus, ohio
i can tell you it's origin, it's a suzukird header.

according to their sales literature it will improve your hp by 40%. =)

_________________
1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Header
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 2:11 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:10 am
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Location: Palm Springs, Calif
I've heard that header came out of a speed shop close to Singapore, but you could be right.



t3 ragtop wrote:
i can tell you it's origin, it's a suzukird header.

according to their sales literature it will improve your hp by 40%. =)


It does look similar to the Suzukird stainless steel T304 4:1 header

Image

But lacks the flex pipe, hangar, block mounting bracket, and EGR.
I don't think it is a bolt on.
Also, they seem to sell a 4:1, not a 4:2:1.



You're correct - They advertise a 14 horsepower or 14% gain as well as increased gas mileage in street cars.
Years ago, people advertising a 10% horsepower increase wasn't unusual.
I bought a set of Hookers for a small block Chevy one time and it certainly had a little more 'umph'.
A guy could easily do a few dyno runs with a stock system vs. straight headers (no exhaust) and see what the numbers are.
10% or 14%, the difference is only what, 4 horsepower?

I'd like to see the header which gives an engine 40% more ponies.
Gold plate that puppy!

Here's the link:

http://www.pt2w.com/srd/index.php?main_ ... mdhhbb2ca5

They cost $270 out of Florida and it looks like you are expected to take it to your local muffler shop for final fitting and welding.

While we're on the subject, here's one a little closer, as it is 4:2:1...
It's an off road header for the 8 valve engines:

Image

(Samurai, Sidekick and Tracker)
But the oxygen sensor bung seems a bit low, and I agree with T3ragtop that you want to have that O2 bung higher.

Anyone else out there besides T3 have an idea where my DOHC header originated?


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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Header
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 5:36 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:43 pm
Posts: 720
Location: Texas 75150
od on header tubes?
od of collector?
Are the mounting bolt hole slotted for expansion?
Does it have an O2 sensor bung hole?
Where is the bung hole for the O2 sensor?
Pictures of the other side?

_________________
Fainya
97 Geo Metro LSI,1.3L-GT-DOHC-16v,4.10 5-speed,A/C,170,000,suspension lowered 1",4 wheel disk brakes,15"alloy wheels with 185/50-15 Toyo's,GT bucket seats,analog oil pressure gauge,cruise control, new paint job. 40 mpg at 65 mph.
Good, fast, cheap. You only get two.


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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Header
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:03 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:10 am
Posts: 340
Location: Palm Springs, Calif
It's pretty hot out here in the desert.

fainya wrote:
od on header tubes?
od of collector?
Are the mounting bolt hole slotted for expansion?
Does it have an O2 sensor bung hole?
Where is the bung hole for the O2 sensor?
Pictures of the other side?



Oxygen sensor bung hole isn't circled or labeled in the picture above, but is visible.
Take a closer look at the first collector.
It is in almost the same location and orientation as your Genie, just below the mounting bracket.


Picture 10051602
Mounting brackets circled in white:
Image


Picture 10051603
Front view, with EGR port circled:
Image


OP is asking for diameters of piping before and after collectors for his 4:2:1 set up.


a.) 4:2:1

b.) Bolt on/plug and play brackets as shown

c.) EGR port on cylinder #4

d.) Flex joint after collector

Decent unit.

You might want to have your muffler man fab up something like that. Feel free to show him my pictures.

Some guy in England offered me 150 bucks for mine. :drunk:
I told him he could have one of these
Image
for $75.
:twisted:

For a G13b with a firing order of 1-3-4-2:

Cylinders 2-3 dump into one collector and 1-4 dump into the other

The pictured 4:2:1 header design alternates cylinder exhaust between the two collectors, which in theory provides a more equalized exhaust.
As a matter of fact, the DOHC OEM stock exhaust manifold does the same thing. (Take a closer look.)
:huh:

What size and material pipe do you have available?


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