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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:57 pm 
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Location: porto
Hi. Everytime i do a cold start with my engine (i think that the longer it is without starting the longer it takes. Ex: If i try to start it after a couple hours after it has been working it easily starts. But if it stays for a day or 2 without starting its harder) it takes like 4 sec to start and when it starts it stays in like 200rpm for a couple seconds (like 2/3 sec) and then it jumps up to 2300/2500rpm until it starts to heat up.

Is this a fuel pressure issue? can it be my injectors? With a fuel pressure regulator will i have my problem solved? I heard of people that with the fuel regulator their starts got worse.

Help please
Thanks


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 4:03 pm 
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what you describe, except for the 200 rpm operation, sounds like a normal cold start operation for a car in a more northern climate.

from that, considering your location, i would suggest that you check the coolant level, check the operation and linearity of the clt (coolant temp sensor) and the solenoid valve that controls the fast idle vacuum circuit.

the fast idle control valves located at the rear of the intake manifolds on the twincam engines is notorious for failing which causes idle speed problems.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 4:35 pm 
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Location: porto
Thanks for answering!
In fact the weather is pretty warm here weird.. Coolant level is were it is suposed to be.

I dont know if this might be normal but today, since i was doubting about fuel missing on the start up, i pushed fuel like 3 times before starting it up. And it started after 3/4 seconds and in 1 sec it simply shutted down, this occured around 2 /3 times. After that the rpm was low and with some gas it went where it was supposed to be :?: :?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:43 pm 
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you haven't really told us just what engine you are dealing with. i just took for granted it was a twincam engine because you are posting the the gt section.

we are talking about a g13b dohc 16 valve, right?

pressing the gas pedal prior to starting doesn't do anything. the twincam engine is a direct injection efi engine. there's no accelerator pump or anything on it.

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1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
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SAAB Sonett II


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:13 pm 
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Location: porto
Yes, a 94 swift gti

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:59 pm 
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Location: porto
Any help? :?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:59 am 
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Location: Mount Vernon, WA
Check your compression. Pull your plugs and take a look. Any unusual oil or water consumption? Do you hear the fuel pump cycle for the 2 seconds when you turn the ignition to the on position? There is lot of reasons for a delayed started, you will have to do some testing to eliminate possibilities. If you haven't done a tune up, I would start there (plugs, wires, cap and rotor, oil filter, gas filter, clean the air filter. The car looks nice. How's the weather in Porto?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:07 pm 
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Location: porto
Thanks for trying to help!

Dont know if this helps but the car after it is fully warmed up it tends to drop the idle. For ex: I give it some revs, the rotation stops at 800rpm, then, 2 seconds later drops to 500, and its around there. Something i noticed is that in the past when idling the intake seemed to do a sound like if it was underwater :huh: like bubling if you know what i mean if i give it slightly gas, the enought to pass from 800 rpm to 1000 it stoped doing the noise. Now, since the rpm are most of the time around 500 rpm, i can actually hear that bubling at 800rpm. Dont know if this is a sensor or something like that. Not sure though if the Tps is fully working or adjusted

Well, other than that, no coolant consumption, and the car pulls great. I dont know if this is normal but i need to put 0.8l of oil after 3500/4000 km (Shell 10w-40 hx7) Will start to use liqui moly though.

The fuel pump has been replaced, new pump filter, new fuel filter. Honestly the fuel filter was pretty bad (i have a video if you guys want), dont think that filter has ever been changed, so a 20+ year filter... Maybe that dirtied my injectors?

The weather here goes from 5c minimum at the winter, and 35 C in summer. Pretty great i guess. I think that the start up problem kinda gets worst when its colder. Ex, 10/15 degrees its harder then when it is 25c

Thanks once again


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:11 pm 
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Damn another nice GTI
.

when it does start do you notice the car cranks faster just before start
when no start does your car crank slightly slowly
.
.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:56 am 
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if you look at the throttle linkage on the throttle body you will see a pneumatic dash pot where the throttle stop is. that dash pot lets the linkage rest and then go down as the pneumatic canister releases air.

your idle hesitating at 800 rpm and then dropping to 500 rpm might be a function of that.

without adjusting that throttle stop, which would move the tps out of adjustment, the way you would raise the idle would be to pull the rubber plug from the throttle body and using a small screwdriver to adjust the idle air screw so that with the engine at operating temp you have an idle speed of 800 rpm. when you rev the engine after that, the idle stop should come back to rest on the dash pot at about 1000 rpm and then drop in about 2 seconds to 800 rpm.

keep in mind that any change to ignition advance will affect your idle speed. any change to the mechanical throttle stop affects the throttle position sensor's adjustment and there's a precise procedure for setting that. if the tps is out of adjustment it plays havoc with the idle.

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1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:23 pm 
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Location: porto
Thanks for the compliments on the car!

No differences in crank speed
Today i noticed that when the car is fully warmed there are some spikes at the rpms that lower them to around 200 rpm and then it jumps up between 500/800 rpm. I noticed this when i stop the car in transit or at the lights for exemple

Tomorrow i will adjust the tps, following the guide i found at the forum and then i will report

Once again, thanks for answering


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:37 pm 
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the 2 main sensors that control decel and idle speed are the tps and the vss (located in the speedometer.)

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1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:12 am 
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Location: porto
Hey guys, so today i adjusted the tps and changed the sensor in the picture. About the start up it was perfect but it is really warm in here and there might be some residual wd 40 so i will wait for the night or a cooler day and then i make a video


About the idle, it seemed to me that it was slightly better, but i need to take it for a drive and then i report

Here is a picture of the sensor i changed

Image

Here is the bubling noise i spoke about

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhrdhqETMJ8

And at 0:35 you can see the idle coming down the value it was supposed to. And that the idle is not completely steady

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9no3suvPBfs


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 6:18 am 
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Location: porto
Any guess? :?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:08 am 
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with the videos i was able to identify your term of "bubbling" and that is a tps mis-adjustment.

when you tip the throttle in you are pulling the tps off it's idle setting zero point which causes the ecu to change it's injection mode from idle to accelerate.

the tps mis-adjustment is also the cause of that small icle speed "hunting."

the solenoid valve you changed is the idle speed solenoid. it induces a controlled vacuum leak to introduce more air into the intake manifold which raises the idle speed without opening the throttle plate.

the shaft that is connected to the idle plate also controls the position of the throttle position sensor.

on the top rear corner of the throttle body there should be a rubber plug that covers the idle air jet. that's where you adjust the idle speed. turning the slotted screw raises and lower the needle in it's seat to increase or decrease air through the throttle body and that's what controls the idle speed.

generally, small idle speed hunting comes from a bad vacuum hose or a bad throttle body gasket. large swings in the idle speed come from a problem in the temperature controlled idle air solenoid mounted on the rear of the intake manifold.

i removed that idle air control from my twincam engine and replaced it with a blanking plate. then i used a short section of aluminum tubing and hose clamps to join the coolant lines that used to go to the valve. my engine no longer has the temperature controlled fast idle circuit but i only use my car in the summer so i don't need the automated idle control.

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1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 1:46 pm 
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I adjusted the tps, that means that it is broken? I have another car, i will try to change that sensor and see the outcome, im also going to change the thermostat soon, is there anything related to one of the water temp sensor that can cause this problem?

Thanks


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 5:44 pm 
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the coolant temp sensor, if it were bad, would set a condition where the ecu wouldn't switch into closed loop operation. the only way a thermostat would change anything is if it was stuck open and the engine coolant temp never came up to more than 160 degrees f.

the tps adjustment must be made exactly according to the work shop procedure given in the factory service manual. it requires unplugging the tps connector, attaching an ohm meter, using a feeler gauge, and turning the tps into it's precise position. then you have to lock down the screws against the tps retainer to clamp it without shifting from the adjusted position.

from your video, when you use your finger on the throttle linkage to open the throttle you simultaneously open the throttle plate and move the tps position. tps adjustment is very important for the idle process.

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1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 8:52 pm 
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Location: porto
When i spoke about the thermostat it was just maintenance, and since i was gonna have to flush everything, i would change anything that might be related to start up or idle problems.


I adjusted the tps, it was actually pretty far from where it was but i didnt notice any difference so does that mean that the tps might not be working perfectly?
I have another swift for parts, and i tried to test is tps, and the outcome was that it never got into "no continuity" on the ohm meter, i mean, the values got really high but not entered into no continuity.
It was working great on the other car.
The only way the ohm meter assumed that it was in no continuity was if i selected the option the makes a sound when it is in no continuity or continuity, cant remember. That way, the ohm meter detected
What sould i do next?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 3:54 am 
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Location: Slovenia
tps should not get "high values" in any position.. there is only "0 or 1" if u use digital ohm meter or nedle in max left or max right position if u use analog one.. nedle shoul jump from one position to another really fast..
i had to adjust it about 5 times to get it in right position.. you're using feeler gauges of 0.3mm, 0.6mm and 0.9mm right? your factory stop screw for closed tb position is where it should be?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 8:56 am 
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I never touched the stop screw, i would say anyone ever has.

Yes, im using the feeler gauges that the manual recomends. That tps i spoke about will increase its values from ex 0 to 148 at a glance, but it was supposed to show "1" instead it keeps appearing the 148 value

Even though, i will try to put that one in my car and try to adjust and will see if there is anything different


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:33 am 
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Maybe this will help

How to calibrate TPS http://www.redlinegti.com/forum/vt.24422.htm

While you are under the bonnet take the pod filter off and give the AFM hot-wire a spray with some contact cleaner to get any oil off which has probably collected on there from your mesh filter.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 4:24 pm 
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I used that tutorial. Well, tested the other tps and it isnt working, rpm go past 3000rpm and check engine is on, and if i acelerate, it starts to die.

Now talking about my tps, I would just want to know if the idle is related to it not being perfectly adjusted, or if this tps is starting to die


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 4:25 pm 
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I recently cleaned it, but im gonna clean it again just in case, thanks


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 9:32 pm 
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the tps is simply a rheostat or variable resistor. the check for it is to use a digital multimeter set to read ohms. you connect a lead to the pin that corresponds to one end of the resistance, move the actuator, and read the resistance picked off by the wiper. make sure that the readout on the meter increases and decreases with no drop outs. you read the total resistance of the the tps and make sure that it is within the requisite tolerance and make sure that the wiper maintains contact with the resistance wire throughout it's range.

make all your readings with the tps connector separated from the control wiring. you do not want to inject the meter's voltage, no matter how small, into the unpowered ecu. doing so will damage the cmos devices in the ecu.

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1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:33 am 
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I see no drops or any problem, but it keeps doing that idle problem, and maybe, even the start up issue is related. Yes, all the adjustments have been done separated to the control wiring.
Today i will check the tps values and see if they are within the requirements. Should i do it with the tps separated from the throtle body, to see the max and the min values or just by moving the throttle? If so, the tps should be turned completely clockwise?


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