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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 8:25 am 
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t3 ragtop wrote:
the tps is simply a rheostat or variable resistor.
That's true, but that part of the TPS doesn't effect the idle - the switch that is the other part of the TPS does. The TPS setup, is setting the opening point for that switch so the ECU knows the accelerator has moved from idle (so changes locations within the fuel and ignition maps). The variable resistor part tells the ECU about throttle position AFTER the accelerator leaves the idle position. If the switch isn't adjusted correctly, the ECU either doesn't see the accelerator leave idle (so the engine is trying to use the idle map while the engine should be demanding fuel and ignition advance) or the ECU never sees the accelerator return to the idle position and tries to keep running in the main map instead of switching to the idle map.

The most common causes of idle issues are the TPS adjustment and the Cold Start Valve. From your description of the TPS setup, the results are not right (ie readings you describe are not what would be expected). The Redline How-to also has links to the workshop manual pages showing the full TPS test and setup procedure. HOW-TO definitely works if you follows the steps exactly.

Testing if the CSV is adding to your problems is easy. Block the air line going in to the CSV to disable the CSV function. You might need to increase the rev's a bit by using the accelerator when the engine is cold but that's about the only drawback. A lot of engines don't have the CSV connected (usually removed and a blanking plate installed to block the port). They fail and it's difficult to find a working replacement. It's something you can live without if you have to.

If the cooling system has been drained and refilled, there could be an air lock in the coolant lines to the CSV. Remove the coolant lines one at a time to confirm water going in and out of the CSV.

You can also test the CSV by putting the CSV in hot water while blowing low pressure air in to the inlet line. Air will bubble out the outlet port until the valve gets hot enough to close. Once the CSV is hot, no air should be passing through the CSV. Cool it down and heat it up a few times to be sure the valve doesn't sometimes stick partly open.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 8:47 am 
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sesfez wrote:
I see no drops or any problem, but it keeps doing that idle problem, and maybe, even the start up issue is related. Yes, all the adjustments have been done separated to the control wiring.
Today i will check the tps values and see if they are within the requirements. Should i do it with the tps separated from the throtle body, to see the max and the min values or just by moving the throttle? If so, the tps should be turned completely clockwise?
You don't need to take the TPS off the throttle body to test or adjust it. The other document in the Redline post shows greater detail for the test and adjustment. The TPS is off the throttle body in the How-to to make taking the pictures easier. Use the How-to and the 2 manual pages I've attached.
How to calibrate TPS
TPS test procedure:


Attachments:
File comment: TPS test & setup procedure page 1
TPS_1.jpg
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File comment: TPS test & setup procedure page 2
tps_2.jpg
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:51 pm 
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Location: porto
i will re adjuste it again. Just a doubt. Why my engine works with the faulty tps if the maf is disconected and mine the car status but go off?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:33 pm 
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the above pages of the workshop manual are what i use to test and set my tps each and every time. :wink:

now, just to get this out there - the north american market controls can vary slightly from the jdm and euro market controls, and sometimes this leads to some confusion depending on who might be helping. the maf and tps are tier one controls and all markets used them. sometimes i have found that the jdm and euro market cars replace an active o2 sensor with a little black box with an adjustment knob. emission controls varied a bit from market to market.

again, from your video i see that you are manually opening the throttle. the tps adjustment is specific to the position of the throttle plate shaft. you adjust the tps while the throttle plate is at rest. when you manually open the throttle you will be moving the tps as well so it is normal for what you refer to as a bubbling sound to occur. it should not do that with your fingers off and the throttle plate closed. that sound is indicative of a mis-adjusted tps when the throttle is at rest against the fully compressed dash pot.

the ecu sees the tps at it's zero point and changes the injection mode for idle. when it sees the tps off it's zero point it changes it's injection mode for a different mode. another indication of a mis-adjusted tps is when you take your foot off the pedal to shift and rpms go up slightly during the gear change.

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1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:34 pm 
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Location: porto
Doenst matter how many times i adjust the tps, the idle always stays like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMseKQpS-4A

After adjusting it, it shows 2.4 on the ohmeter, that's too high i guess?


Last edited by sesfez on Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:40 pm 
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Location: porto
I adjusted it with throttle at rest. But the bubling would actually depend on how the car idles, if the idle is too low, it will only do the bubling noise if i put my finger in the throttle plate, but if the rpm are normal (800/900rpm) the bubling would be on. It doesnt matter how many times i adjust it, i always hear that noise :(

I'm almost sure i'm adjusting it correctly since when i do the verifying with the 0.30mm and 0.90mm gauge, according to the manuals, i get what it is supposed to


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 6:22 pm 
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Sorry t3 I didn't see you had already explained how and why the TPS works.

That sort of sound I've heard before on a car with a faulty EGR valve. The valve was open a little at idle when it should have been closed. If you have one fitted, check there.

Also test or disable the CSV and check if there are any ECU diagnostic error codes.


That is also the end of the suggestions I can make. :)


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:10 pm 
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Location: porto
Is there an egr valve on swift? gti?

What you mean by disabling CSV? (What is the CSV :huh: )


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:03 am 
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86mk1gti wrote:
The most common causes of idle issues are the TPS adjustment and the Cold Start Valve.

Testing if the CSV is adding to your problems is easy. Block the air line going in to the CSV to disable the CSV function. You might need to increase the rev's a bit by using the accelerator when the engine is cold but that's about the only drawback. A lot of engines don't have the CSV connected (usually removed and a blanking plate installed to block the port). They fail and it's difficult to find a working replacement. It's something you can live without if you have to.

If the cooling system has been drained and refilled, there could be an air lock in the coolant lines to the CSV. Remove the coolant lines one at a time to confirm water going in and out of the CSV.

You can also test the CSV by putting the CSV in hot water while blowing low pressure air in to the inlet line. Air will bubble out the outlet port until the valve gets hot enough to close. Once the CSV is hot, no air should be passing through the CSV. Cool it down and heat it up a few times to be sure the valve doesn't sometimes stick partly open.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 7:19 am 
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Location: porto
Can you just tell me which one is the air line? In order to know witch one to block?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:53 pm 
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the valve is located on the rear of the intake manifold. it has 2 coolant lines, one that comes from the throttle body and the other, a return line for the coolant. the air hose is L shaped with one end of the hose connected to the vacuum manifold, the steel tubing mounted on top of the plenum. the valve is bolted to the manifold plenum which has a port under the valve. there is a gasket located there and it may have failed.

in this pic you can see the vacuum manifold pipe.
Image

in this pic you can see where i have removed the cold start valve and replaced it with a blanking plate.
Image

_________________
1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 7:34 pm 
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Location: porto
Is that your car? That engine looks great!


Thanks for explaining it so right!
How would you review the idle without that valve?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:10 am 
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Location: Mount Vernon, WA
t3 ragtop wrote:
the valve is located on the rear of the intake manifold. it has 2 coolant lines, one that comes from the throttle body and the other, a return line for the coolant. the air hose is L shaped with one end of the hose connected to the vacuum manifold, the steel tubing mounted on top of the plenum. the valve is bolted to the manifold plenum which has a port under the valve. there is a gasket located there and it may have failed.

in this pic you can see the vacuum manifold pipe.
Image

in this pic you can see where i have removed the cold start valve and replaced it with a blanking plate.
Image


I am not a fan of the cold start valve. I don't want to just blank it off, because I do see some cold weather where it comes in handy. I have been thinking up an alternative solution and will post when/if I install it.

OP: Just by chance you are not running a 3 wire (TS) and not a (TPS) four wire sensor?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 4:29 pm 
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soler,

this is the first twincam i have done the delete on and it really helps remove some of the "bitchiness" in the engine upon a cold start. since this vert is a "fair weather" car about the coldest temp i have operated in was the low 40s and i had no problems.

now a cold start below freezing might be different, not so much in getting the engine started but more so in the unattended warmup of the engine.

i really don't start this engine without the express purpose of driving away so any unattended warmup is a moot point.

in the past i have cleaned the idle valves and fiddled with them to get them going again but the fact is that since the device's secret component is a wax pellet that degrades after say 20 years, sometimes there's just no "fixing" or cleaning that works. you just have to toss a bad one on the scrap pile and find another one that works. :blackeye:

the blanking plate gets rid of the evil once and for all. :wink:

_________________
1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:13 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2014 6:08 am
Posts: 87
Location: porto
I recently changed my headers, these doesnt have the o2 sensor. Can it be the reason?


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