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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:03 pm 
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Location: Levittown PA USA
Ok mechanic finally got to take a look at the orange metro.

I fixed everything else. it runs now. it no longer cuts out at 2k rpm. all wiring is now correct and both maf and o2 have been replaced as well as the ECU.

but still no power. it seems to bog you have to really carefully ease up in speed (like a full block to get to 20-25mph) then it "eases a bit" and starts to accelerate better but caps out and while their is no rpm limit any longer there is just no "power"

rough idle too.

I figured timing. sounds and feels like timing but I have never done a twin cam and know you can really screw it up if wrong on an interference engine.

well he got it apart and the timing is perfect. right on the button.

now what? what could be causing my woes I REALLY want to bring this critter to geopalooza badly.

almost forgot. this is the orange metro (93 xfi) with the swift gt engine and body kit and interior.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:35 pm 
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Location: Slovenia
if problem is with gas (throttle) pedal (accelerating) then it only could be in delivering fuel, air or spark.
you said MAF is new.. o2 too.. did you check and properly set TPS?
fuel pressure ok? injectors ok?
ignition coil, spark distributor, cables and spark plugs ok?

how do spark plugs look like? are they white, brown or black(wet)? i mean the tip of it, where the spark happen :lol:

short movie of adding throttle would be nice.. also pic of all 4 spark plugs..

for checking most of things that could go wrong, and setting them as they should be, there is "shop manual" book
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=36373

there is a nice pic of how should spark plug look like
Image


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:48 pm 
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Location: Palm Springs, Calif
Of course, post your compression test results, even with an orange XFi sporting a DOHC.
Not convinced?
Valve timing can often be diagnosed with a simple compression test!

Several other things to check:
Fuel Pressure
Cam timing
Exhaust restrictions

Often a video of the problem will narrow the results faster than a boring description.

The boys here know their stuff; rise to the occasion.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:59 pm 
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Location: Levittown PA USA
I assume the fsm or a competent mechanic will know how to do these things?

Hebis going to check fuel pressure. Pretty sure the exhaust is fine i will pop is loose and check though to be sure (it has a god damned fart can on it i cant wait to get rid of)

I will try and get over there tomorrow and shoot a video si ce i wont be back till august from naram in arizona. I will ask him to comp test too my kit is at home sadly otherwise i would do it

I will get the rest of the list to him plugs and wires are new not sure if its been run enough since replacement to see anything on them. I will find out. I can not look at old ones as i did not change them po did that.

Thank you for the helpnibwill try tk get as much of this as i can as quickly as i can.

Cam timing?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 6:51 am 
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nerys wrote:

Thank you for the helpnibwill try tk get as much of this as i can as quickly as i can.

Cam timing?


Have your mechanic post the issues, videos, and pictures of the set up. He will be better equipped to understand our guidance.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 6:09 pm 
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Check if the crank / cam timing marks are correct. Put Piston 1 at TDC (use a rod down the plug hole to get piston to TDC). Then check the timing marks are at TDC as well (use the timing mark on the block and piston TDC as the references). If the keyway that locates the timing belt pulley to crank has worn the marks won't be lined up, cams won't be aligned correctly and ignition timing will be wrong relative to true TDC. The marks on the timing pulley and the cams will be correctly aligned to each other BUT with the piston at TDC, the lower pulley mark to the block won't be aligned if the keyway is in any way worn. (you have to take the plastic covers off to check the marks)


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:04 am 
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Location: walsh,alberta,canada
no check engine light/ codes? did you chip the ecu? (you mentioned no rev limit)
there is a fsm here somewhere on this site.
weak/ wrong coil? low fuel pressure? you must have changed the fuel pump.
fuel pressure test.

I installed the sandros chip backwards at first in my gti :blackeye: , it would fire and run, but only if I kept my foot to the floor....thank god I have a remote zif socket, about 5 seconds and it was flipped around, then it ran properly.
that ecu is a pain to remove/install :evil:

I had to play with my timing, tps, and throttle cable to get it to run decent with no check engine light (3-tech 222/365 cams, sandro's chip, free-flowing exhaust)

car pulls hard, still gets 40+ mpg 8)

_________________
89 1.0 turbo firefly
2"exhaust,no cats/resonator
3 tech 6*gear
3 tech turbo grind cam
3 tech cylinder head/w/port,polish,blend,oversized s/s valves
gti brake swap
89 white gti twincam....need I say more?
92 metro aka ''blue lump of coal''
92 white metro lsi vert
91 blue chevy sprint (gas sipper)


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:55 am 
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Location: Levittown PA USA
My mechanic is not the most Internet savvy I do most of his online stuff for him

It is actually how we got to know each other I help him get his stuff off eBay that he needs and he helps me with my cars when I need help

We have an fsm

I could not get a video as he had it taken apart he is going to check the keyway pull o2 to check the cat check fuel pressure Cam timing compression etc... will report back as i get info.

I did not chip the car the maf was bad which caused the engine to cut out at 2000 rpm replace the MAF and now the RPM does not cut out at 2000 rpm it still give me a maf code iirc I assume this is simply because its not running properly yet since installing the maf


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 2:48 pm 
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Location: Etobicoke, Ontario
nerys wrote:
I did not chip the car the maf was bad which caused the engine to cut out at 2000 rpm replace the MAF and now the RPM does not cut out at 2000 rpm it still give me a maf code iirc I assume this is simply because its not running properly yet since installing the maf


Check the wiring on the MAF plug. There is a rubber boot you have to carefully remove. It is possible one of the wires broke off.. I had that happen to me.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:53 am 
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Location: Mount Vernon, WA
What year is the dohc engine, wiring harness, and ecu from? Did this swap over ever run right with the previous owner?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:07 pm 
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Location: Levittown PA USA
I have no idea. someone told me it was 89-91

all the wiring was "wrong" (wrong plugs into wrong things grounds missing or weak etc..)

I suspect the ECU is fine so I am certainly keeping the original :-) buggers are expensive.

I have no idea if anyone ever had it running right. it has been through a few hands from what I understand but I have zero contact with PO's and the last PO did not do much to it before giving up from what I gathered.

I have zero details about the donor vehicle and if IT even ran. I believe one of the PO's posted here on this forum.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 3:16 pm 
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Location: Etobicoke, Ontario
Your shell is originally a 3cyl Metro right?

IIRC the fuel pump is different on the 3cyl and doesn't flow as much as the GT. That would certainly cause a lack of fuel which would cause low power.

Is there anyone one on here that can confirm if the pumps are in fact different? I seem to think they are...

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 4:23 pm 
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Location: Levittown PA USA
yes. 93 xfi

I already changed the fuel pump. It was suggested that their might be a difference so I got the higher performance pump so I was covered either way.

though that would only make sense if you actually tried to "USE" the extra power a weaker pump could not supply. I did not take any chances and just got the more powerful pump.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:09 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:27 pm
Posts: 824
Location: walsh,alberta,canada
pumps are indeed very different

_________________
89 1.0 turbo firefly
2"exhaust,no cats/resonator
3 tech 6*gear
3 tech turbo grind cam
3 tech cylinder head/w/port,polish,blend,oversized s/s valves
gti brake swap
89 white gti twincam....need I say more?
92 metro aka ''blue lump of coal''
92 white metro lsi vert
91 blue chevy sprint (gas sipper)


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 8:48 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:33 pm
Posts: 40
Location: Western Australia
Hi,

TheINCRide wrote:
Your shell is originally a 3cyl Metro right?

IIRC the fuel pump is different on the 3cyl and doesn't flow as much as the GT. That would certainly cause a lack of fuel which would cause low power.

Is there anyone one on here that can confirm if the pumps are in fact different? I seem to think they are...
blueturbofly wrote:
pumps are indeed very different
Correct! :)

Not only do the fuel pumps differ but the GTi fuel tanks are also very different. In addition the hard fuel lines soldered to a GTi tank are considerably bigger in diameter than a normal Swift/Metro. You can upgrade the pump granted; but the smaller fuel lines will still hold you back somewhat if still using the original 3-Cylinder tank.

OP can you please confirm your ECU is showing no error codes and that the lower cam-pulley woodruff-key and keyway is tight and not flogged (?)

Good luck!

Cheers,

Drew

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スズキ カルタス GT-i


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 2:15 pm 
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Location: Vancouver BC
Quote:
Not only do the fuel pumps differ but the GTi fuel tanks are also very different. In addition the hard fuel lines soldered to a GTi tank are considerably bigger in diameter than a normal Swift/Metro.


In North American market Swifts, the MK2/3 GTi fuel tank is identical to MK2/3 non-GTi fuel tanks and have the same part number.

The GTi has a unique, higher capacity fuel pump and fuel pump mounting panel assembly, and is attached via bolts to the rectangular opening on the top of the fuel tank.

The pre-formed hard feed and return fuel lines from the fuel pump to fuel filter are removable and are secured via bolt to a tab on the fuel tank. (not soldered)


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:34 pm 
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Location: Western Australia
Well I'm happy to stand corrected then! :)

Definitely two different versions available down here in Australia though! Circular panel mounting assembly with thinner fuel lines on GA models and rectangular mounting assembly with larger ones exclusive to GTi. Could have sworn the lines were fixed in place... I changed my tank out years ago and bought the 'wrong' one at first. So will have to look at the photos I took back then.

Interesting...

Sorry OP. Let's carry on and good luck to you!

Drew

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スズキ カルタス GT-i


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:13 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:43 pm
Posts: 720
Location: Texas 75150
I have a DOHC in a 97 Geo Metro with 98 engine wiring and controls. Also a 98 fuel tank and pump.
The 98 PCM rev limits at 6750 rpm. I have had no issues with lack of power bumping the rev limiter.
THe 98 electronic gave me true sequential port injection. The original ODB1 DOHC PCM is set up for
bank injection. All four injectors open at the same time. I was also able to eliminate the Air Flow System
that the DOHC used in the rubber intake tube. Lastly no distributor with the 98 engine controls Coil banks.
I have replaced the rubber intake tube with an aftermarket 3 inch polished aluminum intake tube with a cone filter.
This helped with the bottom end performance of the engine.
My DOHC does not begin to come alive until you get up to 3,000 rpm. I can live with it.
Exhaust is 2 inch from the 4 to 1 header through the cat and back to the flange about in the middle of the car. From
there back 2.250 inch through the resonator over the suspension into the muffer.
Stock intake manifold has a 46 mm opening which I enlargered to 47mm. Throttle body I built is 47mm.

_________________
Fainya
97 Geo Metro LSI,1.3L-GT-DOHC-16v,4.10 5-speed,A/C,170,000,suspension lowered 1",4 wheel disk brakes,15"alloy wheels with 185/50-15 Toyo's,GT bucket seats,analog oil pressure gauge,cruise control, new paint job. 40 mpg at 65 mph.
Good, fast, cheap. You only get two.


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