TeamSwift

Home of the Suzuki mini-compacts ! Your Home for all things Suzuki Swift, Geo Metro, Holden Barina, Chevy Sprint, Pontiac Firefly, and Suzuki Cultus. TeamSwift is a technical performance oriented community!
It is currently Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:30 pm

Underbody braces, turbos and more!

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 11:34 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2003 9:01 pm
Posts: 293
Location: Herts.
I don't see how heating up the fuel will help you that much. The stock suzuki system allready has a warm air feed, that aims to keep the air exiting the plenum chamber at about 30C (cant remember the exact figure it is in the WSM).

Some people actualy freeze their fuel tanks in order to boost the octane rating of their fuel :shock:

_________________
-Twisty :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 1:57 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 12:08 pm
Posts: 15
Location: Nr Southampton
or we drive to Tescos and buy there new 99oct fuel which is cheaper that optimaxi!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Claire
xXx


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 11:07 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 5:15 pm
Posts: 391
Location: Altamonte Springs, FL
spt-3x1.0 wrote:
warming the air is one thing but if you warm the fuel it atomizes easier which creates better fuel milage


Will you show resources to prove/reinforce that? :?:

_________________
<img src="http://tellico.off-road.com/wwwthreads_uploads/1438321-lolsroyce.gif">


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 1:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 5:41 pm
Posts: 89
Location: Irvine, Ca
Nowhere wrote:
spt-3x1.0 wrote:
warming the air is one thing but if you warm the fuel it atomizes easier which creates better fuel milage


Will you show resources to prove/reinforce that? :?:

It's a common trick amoung MPGers. I could probably find resources of testimonials, but would that change anyone's mind? (If it's on the internet, it must be true!).

If you heat up your fuel listen for any pre-ignition. If you want to be slick, insulate the copper line (not from the hot water thought) and put a surface temp sensor on it. See what kind of temps your getting. It'll will also help if you have to trouble shoot vapor lock or pinging problems.

Jay W
505/287 Dakota


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 10:17 am 
Offline
Sparky
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 4:05 pm
Posts: 842
Location: Beautifull North Carolina
http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php? ... +injection

This is All I will say on the Matter! :twisted:

_________________
Metroless and looking for another already!!
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 10:30 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:27 pm
Posts: 1033
Location: Kenosha, WI
Thanks Kento, but I'm still unsure if I gained any economy with my water/alcohol injection.

spt-3x1.0,

If you are interested in trying my water injection I will be more than happy to send you some hose and the inline restrictor orifice. You will have to pick up a gang valve at your local pet store or aquarium store. Just PM me if interested.

As for better fuel economy you could switch to synthetic oil. It does make a difference. I used it in a 1998 Dodge Dakota V-6 once and picked up 2 MPG.

Other tips to try:
Properly inflated tires
Vacuum Gauge (try to maintain the highest reading when driving)
Weight reduction
Free flowing air filter
Free flowing exhaust

_________________
M3----"M" body "3" cylinders.
Now Turbo'd

"M3 like the BMW?"
"No, like the Gillette razor."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 10:48 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2003 9:01 pm
Posts: 293
Location: Herts.
Quote:
woodrufj wrote:
Will you show resources to prove/reinforce that? :?:

It's a common trick amoung MPGers. I could probably find resources of testimonials, but would that change anyone's mind? (If it's on the internet, it must be true!).

If you heat up your fuel listen for any pre-ignition. If you want to be slick, insulate the copper line (not from the hot water thought) and put a surface temp sensor on it. See what kind of temps your getting. It'll will also help if you have to trouble shoot vapor lock or pinging problems.

Jay W
505/287 Dakota


When I think about it more it does make sense. Any energy you add to the fuel before it enters the engine will also add energy to the combustion process.

I'd just be a bit nervous about heating up volitile, explosive liquids and that any gains may be lost by having to back off the timing advance.

How much fuel does a car use per second on the highway? About 1.5ml/s?

I dont know the density or specific heat capacity, lets just assume 2J/mm/degC

So you warm up your fuel 30C, so thats 1.5x2x30=90J/s=90W of power. The difference between switching yor headlights from full to dipped beam?

_________________
-Twisty :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 1:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 5:41 pm
Posts: 89
Location: Irvine, Ca
spt-3x1.0 wrote:
I've asked & have been told by several shops that a fuel injected vehicle cant vapor lock do to the system being pressurized unlike your older carburatored car can get vapor lock just from it being a very hot day.

Yeah, but they're assuming your not doing something goofy like forcing the fuel temp up to 180degs! Also keep in mind modern FI runs at about 45-90psi. My manual says the TBI system only runs at about 15psi. (higher pressure = less vapor lock change)

I've seen claims of 10-15%. I bought a cute little heat exchanger that I might try to splice fuel and coolent lines into, but with the registration problems I've been having the days of my Geo may be limited.

I actually haven't heard of anybody pinging after doing a fuel heating mod, but it just makes sense to me that it effectivally lowers octane.

Jay W
505/287 Dakota


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 2:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2003 9:01 pm
Posts: 293
Location: Herts.
I remember reading a thread about running the radiator for the auto model in the manual swift but not using the part that cools the transmission fluid. Could one just pass fuel through it instead.

One could also run the fuel line brazed along the exhaust but that really would get me worried :shock:

_________________
-Twisty :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 2:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:27 pm
Posts: 1033
Location: Kenosha, WI
Maybe you could use one of those heated fuel filters for diesels.

_________________
M3----"M" body "3" cylinders.
Now Turbo'd

"M3 like the BMW?"
"No, like the Gillette razor."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2005 8:46 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 5:22 am
Posts: 42
Location: USA, Georgia
They make atomizers to add to your inline fuel hoses to make the fuel burn better. To esentially polorize the fuel to burn better. They use magnets to polorize the fuel. They " apparently" add horse power. However, I had one on my mustang and it improved gas milage. But did not give horse power. Well not enough to notice on a V8 :lol: You could always try it out. Might make a difference on the imports though.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 9:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:23 am
Posts: 99
Location: Oregon
Crankcase evacuation using the exhaust manifold may increase mpg as well as hp. Definitely not smog legal though...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 8:22 am 
Offline
Moderator & FAQ King
Moderator & FAQ King
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2003 6:22 pm
Posts: 6460
Location: Vancouver, BC
Running the PCV straight to the exhaust won't be emissions legal because the cat isn't designed to deal with oil vapors. The cat cleans combustion byproducts, not engine lubricants. Worse yet, the oil may burn inside the cat causing an unneccesary and detectable increase in hydrocarbon output. I would suspect that it may eventually cause contamination and failure of the cat from prolonged use.

_________________
jaguar,vettes&sprints wrote:
...can you inlighten me about lihtan's
( miracle pour hole)
maybe a picture Thanks


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 4:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:36 pm
Posts: 493
Location: Roscommon, MI
Read this and it should help you understand why water injection is a good idea. M3, I'm not saying you don't know what you're talking about or didn't do it right, but my feeling is that if you didn't see at least a little improvement, then maybe there was something more you could have done? Did you lean out the fuel a bit to account for the fact that you no longer need fuel dumping to cool the mixture out? Maybe a little more water was necessary? I don't know, just throwing out a few ideas. From reading the link I posted, it really sounds to me that water is much more efficient than extra fuel.

You might also benefit from WI if you increase the compression ratio while you're at it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 12:45 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 4:58 pm
Posts: 639
Location: Abbotsford, BC, Canada
Get a +10 cam gear from 3tech Performance (Superfl1y).... it will help a lot if you watch your speed (the best single mod you can make to a 1.0). For the PCV, if you look in my gallery its a $3 setup (actually under that...). It should not impact smog like running it through the cat. Also, while your in my gallery, look @ my intake, easier breathing will not hurt fuel economy either.

_________________
'94 Suzuki Swift g10 3tech stuff:Port&Polish,225/355 cam,11:1 CR, SS valves,+10 Cam gear,underdrive; K&N intake; LTLSU's Custom racing springs with Monroe struts (2" lower front, 0.5" lower back); 185/55/R14 Kumho Ecsta SPT tires on Eagle 040 rims; Stripped out interior and removed AC system


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:22 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:27 pm
Posts: 1033
Location: Kenosha, WI
rarson wrote:
Read this and it should help you understand why water injection is a good idea. M3, I'm not saying you don't know what you're talking about or didn't do it right, but my feeling is that if you didn't see at least a little improvement, then maybe there was something more you could have done? Did you lean out the fuel a bit to account for the fact that you no longer need fuel dumping to cool the mixture out? Maybe a little more water was necessary? I don't know, just throwing out a few ideas. From reading the link I posted, it really sounds to me that water is much more efficient than extra fuel.

You might also benefit from WI if you increase the compression ratio while you're at it.


rarson,

I am sure I picked up some MPG from it. The main idea for me experimenting with the H20 was to keep EGT's cool and supress any detonation. If there was a gain in MPG that was a plus. As for "leaning out" the mixture, the ECU already does that for me. Due to using washer fluid that has a 35% mix of methanol, the O2 sensor sees the methanol as added fuel causing it to read richer. In return, the ECU leans out the fuel. This is evident on my A/F ratio gauge.

_________________
M3----"M" body "3" cylinders.
Now Turbo'd

"M3 like the BMW?"
"No, like the Gillette razor."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:28 am
Posts: 220
Location: Frankfurt Germany
The fuel heater seems to be a very good and totally inexpensive idea!

Question:
Has anybody ever constructed a water/fuel heat-exchanger and could we see a photo or a suggestion for a practical solution?

It probably won't cost much to make and almost all of us can benefit from it.
Helmut


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 5:41 pm
Posts: 89
Location: Irvine, Ca
I haven't found any liquid to liquid heat exchangers that we cheap. I finally found a small one on ebay for $25, but most were going $75+. Yet to be installed. Wrapping copper fuel line tubing around heater hoses seems to be the popular method.

Jay W
505/287 Dakota

Helmut wrote:
The fuel heater seems to be a very good and totally inexpensive idea!

Question:
Has anybody ever constructed a water/fuel heat-exchanger and could we see a photo or a suggestion for a practical solution?

It probably won't cost much to make and almost all of us can benefit from it.
Helmut


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:17 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 2:37 pm
Posts: 88
Location: Columbia,MO
Hey Zurech would you like to elaborate on your pvc setup. I looked at your gallery but after reading the description I was all :?: :?: :?: :?:
Josh

_________________
"Always remember that in the equation for drag, velocity is squared."

1993 Geo Metro Hatchback
1996 Impala SS
1980 Yamaha Maxim 650


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 2:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 4:58 pm
Posts: 639
Location: Abbotsford, BC, Canada
http://www.teamswift.net/album_page.php?pic_id=2856

It is called a "Breather" and that store is a nation wide chain. They cost literally 2-3 dollars. I also used some clamps to hold the tube in place. I did this since my intake has no spot for it to be on the pcv system, not for any better idle or power gain. If you want those, get an underdrive from Superf1y, and the +10 cam gear from him aswell (pm him or click the 3tech banner). If you mod the intake to something similar to my own, then I can understand the need for a breather.

_________________
'94 Suzuki Swift g10 3tech stuff:Port&Polish,225/355 cam,11:1 CR, SS valves,+10 Cam gear,underdrive; K&N intake; LTLSU's Custom racing springs with Monroe struts (2" lower front, 0.5" lower back); 185/55/R14 Kumho Ecsta SPT tires on Eagle 040 rims; Stripped out interior and removed AC system


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group