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 Post subject: 91 Rebuild
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:38 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:06 am
Posts: 22
Location: Virginia Beach, VA.
Figured I'd document my rebuild this time (about 4 months ago I did a 93 5spd 3 door metro).

I bought a 91' 3spd 5 door metro from a coworker for $250. The car had a bad knock to it so he was looking to unload it before it got real bad.

Day 1:

Pulled the motor and transmission

Image Image Image Image

Day 2:

Dropped the transmission off at my buddies (http://www.roryandsontransanddriveline.com/) for it to be rebuilt, just because. I broke down the engine to find out exactly what was causing the knocking. It became pretty obvious when I finished.

Image Image Image
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The bearings didn't look too good either. The crankshaft had some pretty good scaring as well. I plan on taking the block to my local machine shop (http://www.abacusracing.com/) to have them bore the cylinders 20 over, work the crankshaft and quote me for a head rebuild. I also fired off 3tech an email to see what his current turn around time is and then I will go from there.

On a side note, does anyone know if the axles are the same between both 3spds and 5spds? I think the passenger side one is going bad on my 5spd and want to make sure before I buy a new one. Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: 91 Rebuild
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:29 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:37 am
Posts: 1059
Location: Vancouver, Best Cannabis
axel discussion
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=52744

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Silver 2000 Firefly 4DR; 16V SOHC, 3 to 5 speed swap, install PS and AC, remote and auto start, PL, PW, kill and start switch, Valentine 1, behind-bumper CAI, 55MM TB with coolant-bypass, polyurethane-fill engine/shifter mounts, modified to short shifter, upgraded electrical system, CS130 alternator, 90/160W headlights + relay mod, ceramic H4 plug/harness
To do: finish stereo, 4000K H4 HIDs, short block replacement
'sponsored' by Captain Crunch, Lordco, Felpro, Permatex, Royal Purple


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 Post subject: Re: 91 Rebuild
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 4:51 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:06 am
Posts: 22
Location: Virginia Beach, VA.
TheSilverBullet wrote:


Thank you for the link. I reviewed it, but it's geared more towards the later years than the range I am looking at. I went ahead and pulled the passenger side axle off of the 91 and the 93 to compare (see pics below):

Image
The 91 automatic is the longer axle (the one on the top) and the 93 manual is the shorter axle (the one on the bottom)

Image
wheel side, automatic on left and manual on right

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transmission side, manual on left and automatic on right

for Ā§hits and giggles, I installed the longer one and of course the ball joint would not line up.

Day 3: machine shop is closed until Tuesday, so I will not be able to drop the block and head off until that week.


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 Post subject: Re: 91 Rebuild
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:15 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:06 am
Posts: 22
Location: Virginia Beach, VA.
Day 4/5: Parts are at the machine shop. Head is going to be rebuilt, looking at going 20 over, crank polished and anything else that needs to be done. Should have some feedback in the next two days.


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 Post subject: Re: 91 Rebuild
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:51 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:06 am
Posts: 22
Location: Virginia Beach, VA.
Day 17: (I think)

Got a call from the machine shop. Need to go 10 under on the mains, 20 under on the rods, and 20 over on the pistons. I was also informed that all of the Valves are bent and the engine dowels need to be replaced. I haven't heard back from Mike, so I will just let the machine shop source the valves for me, unless some one has a source they wouldn't mind sharing. Thanks in advance.


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 Post subject: Re: 91 Rebuild
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:12 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:06 am
Posts: 22
Location: Virginia Beach, VA.
Day something or another:

Last weekend I picked up the block (with the rotating assembly assembled), rebuilt head, and rebuilt transmission with new converter. Yesterday I assembled the engine the rest of the way, mated the trans to the engine and installed the engine in the car. All that's left to do is torque header, installed the manifold assembly, plug everything back in and top off the fluids. That should get done next weekend.

Image Image

Image Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: 91 Rebuild
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:17 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:41 pm
Posts: 70
Location: Virginia
Looking good. Gonna have a nice runner when you are done.

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93 Metro 2DR Auto
94 Metro 4DR Auto


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 Post subject: Re: 91 Rebuild
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:20 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:06 am
Posts: 22
Location: Virginia Beach, VA.
Thank you. I'm hoping to get between 34-38 mpg out of it. Not as good as my 93 (5spd), but it a lot better than my truck.

Manifolds are on, wiring is done, and radiator is back in. Apparently my kit didn't come with a thermostat gasket or I lost it. So I need to get a new one and that's where I stopped tonight.


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 Post subject: Re: 91 Rebuild
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:27 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:41 pm
Posts: 70
Location: Virginia
We get 38/39 highway in my wife's 93 Auto @ 65mph.

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93 Metro 2DR Auto
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 Post subject: Re: 91 Rebuild
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:12 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:06 am
Posts: 22
Location: Virginia Beach, VA.
That's encouraging! Thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: 91 Rebuild
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:17 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:06 am
Posts: 22
Location: Virginia Beach, VA.
Car is up and running. Drove it around the block a couple of times. No leaks except for an exhaust leak somewhere in the system. I will have to lift the car up and take a look at that. While it's up in the air I will also do the fuel filter. As soon as I get it registered and insured I will start tracking the mpg and report.


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 Post subject: Re: 91 Rebuild
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:35 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:29 am
Posts: 83
Location: Kentucky, USA
Any Idea what the root cause of the piston failure was? Low oil? Overheating? Were the bent valves related to the piston failure?

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1990 Metro G10 5-speed
Econo cam +8 degrees, Miata 14s

54 MPG


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 Post subject: Re: 91 Rebuild
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:08 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:06 am
Posts: 22
Location: Virginia Beach, VA.
90LSI wrote:
Any Idea what the root cause of the piston failure was? Low oil? Overheating? Were the bent valves related to the piston failure?


The car had an oil leak and the previous owner had been feeding the car oil to keep it topped off. It probably got a little low, the bearings touched the crank and that probably just started the down hill spiral. I imagine the bearing wear on the number 2 cylinder was really bad and it just eventually got so bad that cylinder decide to eat half the piston.

As far as the head goes I'm not sure. The timing belt looked just fine and i didn't see any witness marks on the pistons or valves, so to me that rules out ptv issues. So I'm guessing it was a result of half of the number two piston being in the oil pan.


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 Post subject: Re: 91 Rebuild
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:44 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:06 am
Posts: 22
Location: Virginia Beach, VA.
Fuel filter changed.

Exhaust leak was pretty easy to find:

Image

I was going to have my buddy weld it up, but I was able to track down a cheap one for purchase. Removed the interior and took the carpet out for now. I will work on washing that when I have time. Hopefully after next weekend It will be on the road.


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 Post subject: Re: 91 Rebuild
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:45 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:06 am
Posts: 22
Location: Virginia Beach, VA.
well i decided to spend a whooping 4$ and 30 minutes of my time to fix the exhaust. I'm not a welder, don't claim to be and this statement is further supported by the pics. I believe this is my second time welding and the main purpose was purely functional:

Image

Image

So now all I have to do is reinstall it this weekend and start motoring.


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 Post subject: Re: 91 Rebuild
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:46 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:44 am
Posts: 436
Location: castlerock Wa,
those weld are not bad at all, iv seen some sketchy welds from other members. i would be proud if those were your second attempt at welding. On a side note if the pipe was rusted out that bad how was the muffler? did you shake it really good?

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1990 swift GL Twincam swap
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 Post subject: Re: 91 Rebuild
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:54 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:06 am
Posts: 22
Location: Virginia Beach, VA.
EngineWhisperer wrote:
those weld are not bad at all, iv seen some sketchy welds from other members. i would be proud if those were your second attempt at welding. On a side note if the pipe was rusted out that bad how was the muffler? did you shake it really good?


Thank you very much, a nice little confidence booster. Surprisingly the muffler is in good shape, no rattles no visible rust just carbon build up. After cutting the welds on the support bracket and then cutting the pipe in half I did shake the muffler upside down along with some love taps. The only debris that fell out were carbon coated flakes that I imagine I knocked loose from grinding and cutting.


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 Post subject: Re: 91 Rebuild
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 8:11 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 3:58 pm
Posts: 246
Location: The Arctic
have you tracked MPG yet?

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1993 GEO METRO 1.0 lsi (xfi swap)
1995 Eddie Bauer Exploder
1983 CHEVY C-10--the gas guzzler
1997 VW GTI VR6 Turbo--dead as a door nail
1994 GEO METRO 1.0 xfi (retired and parted out)
1989 Suzuki Swift GTi (sold)


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 Post subject: Re: 91 Rebuild
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:59 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:06 am
Posts: 22
Location: Virginia Beach, VA.
bmg_customz wrote:
have you tracked MPG yet?


Sorry for the late response. I ended up switching jobs...twice. Moved from VA to CA to work for Tesla Motors, then moved from CA to WI to work for Harley-Davidson.

The little bit of tracking that I did do (which was no where near as extensive as I did for my 5spd) I was seeing between 34-36 mpg. I was hoping for a little bit more, but it is what it is.


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 Post subject: Re: 91 Rebuild
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:02 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:14 am
Posts: 1897
Location: Prince George B.C. Canada
With my autos, I saw my best mileage when I'm doing less than 55 Mph. They're just not built for the highway. Stop and go sucks mileage from all cars. Country roads, okay the car's happy. That's the only place an auto 1L shines but even there, it lacks when compared to a 5 speed.

By the way, you had the engine out and all cleaned up nice 'n' purdy like. Why didn't you paint it?


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 Post subject: Re: 91 Rebuild
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:22 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:06 am
Posts: 22
Location: Virginia Beach, VA.
top down@-40 wrote:
With my autos, I saw my best mileage when I'm doing less than 55 Mph. They're just not built for the highway. Stop and go sucks mileage from all cars. Country roads, okay the car's happy. That's the only place an auto 1L shines but even there, it lacks when compared to a 5 speed.

By the way, you had the engine out and all cleaned up nice 'n' purdy like. Why didn't you paint it?


I didn't want to invest that much money into the car (even rattle can) and if I started to worry about how it looks I would start to not treat it like a beater and worry about the appearance of it. I like it when it looks like a beater because it stays under the radar...although I don't know of any metros that fly above the radar either :)

Also, I just recently took off the AC belt in hopes of getting a little bit better mpg. One thing I noticed is that I had to readjust the timing, which led me to look in the service manual and found out that I had too much tension on the belt and was really bogging the engine down.

Another issue is that the car will over heat and blow cold every now and then. This leads me to believe that there is air in the coolant system that I can't seem to get out. After some further investigating I'm finding out that I probably have the wrong thermostat in the car. I don't have the little hole/needle do-dad in it. I would attempt to drill it out, but I also have a 185* thermostat instead of the 195* and would rather have a 195* because of the cold temps in WI vs CA. So I will change it out tonight and hopefully get ride of my temp issues.


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 Post subject: Re: 91 Rebuild
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:44 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:06 am
Posts: 22
Location: Virginia Beach, VA.
Well after replacing the thermostat with what I thought was a warmer one I didn't really see a difference in coolant temp. The car will still barely move past the first little block (see pic) on the temp gauge. Actually most of the time it will be in the middle of the block or just to the left of it.

This pic is while I was sitting in the driveway for about 3 minutes. As soon as I were to drive it would start moving back to the left. Maybe this is normal, but I could have sworn it was closer to the middle of the gauge.
Image

Another issue that I had is the head gasket blew. I thought it was because the engine had the air pockets in the coolant and overheated in certain spots. This wasn't the case. When I went to go replace the head gasket, the bolts around cylinder 2 were loose. Loose as in almost finger tight. During the install I followed the service manual's instructions. I made sure the threads and thread holes where clean, I put engine oil on the threads of the bolts, and I followed the torquing sequence while gradually inscreasing torque to spec each pass through (4 passes). The only thing I can think of, is when I was torquing the bolts I had to use a small 3" extension coupled with an allen head bit (I'm using high end SHCS). I'm guessing the extension and allen bit "soaked" up some torque during the final pass, therefore not allowing me to fully reach the torque spec. I'm just curious why it took roughly 7k miles for it to go.

BTW...I did check the cylinder head & block with a straight edge and they were fine.

Anyways, I'm still stumped by the thermostat temp. The car runs fine and it does blow hot air when the heat is turned on. It's always a possibility that the gauge is not working 100% correctly, but I believe it is. When the car did get hot (because of the air pocket) the fan did kick on and the needle was roughly reading inbetween cold and hot.

That's my update. If anyone has any insight into the thermostat I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: 91 Rebuild
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:52 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:47 pm
Posts: 11669
Location: columbus, ohio
you'll want the 195* t-stat. the ecu control sensors want to see the warm engine. another consideration is that the intake manifolds on the 3 bangers are heated to aid in vaporizing the fuel that tends to puddle right below the throttle body. the cooler air you deal with up in kickapoo country is already chilling the intake manifold.

you may also have a very efficient radiator. pop some cardboard in front of it and see if the coolant temp goes up. remember that the bottom 2 or 3 inches are the oil cooler for the transmission. :wink:

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