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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 3:52 pm 
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The mad quebecer
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I'm just mad cuz u weren't using one of my manifolds!! :x

Just kidding :lol: :lol:


Well, okay, it may be possible to reach that much hp with a stock head but it's probably pushing it's limits a litte far, no?

I enjoy seeing the pictures of your setup, I really do. It's a nice build-up and show great attention to details. You don't need to feel like you must post your settings. I will never do something like that myself and I don't recommend anyone to post their stuff. Why would I spend hours and hours of hard work to tune something only help someone that don't care shit about me? Some people on this board need to learn the difference between a week-end hobby and the true, hard work. Those settings will probably not work well for anyone but your car anyway.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 5:52 pm 
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Jardamuth wrote:
I'm just mad cuz u weren't using one of my manifolds!! :x

Just kidding :lol: :lol:


Well, okay, it may be possible to reach that much hp with a stock head but it's probably pushing it's limits a litte far, no?

I enjoy seeing the pictures of your setup, I really do. It's a nice build-up and show great attention to details. You don't need to feel like you must post your settings. I will never do something like that myself and I don't recommend anyone to post their stuff. Why would I spend hours and hours of hard work to tune something only help someone that don't care sh!t about me? Some people on this board need to learn the difference between a week-end hobby and the true, hard work. Those settings will probably not work well for anyone but your car anyway.


i agree and its not that i dont want to help others out i just know what the wrong settings will do to a car even the same settings in the same car with a different motor with everything build exactly the same will still not be right. i will help out in this issue anyway i can but im not going to blow somebodies motor up and then get blamed for it


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 6:04 pm 
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SYL23 wrote:
Just don't blow the thing up. I want to come see it next time I'm in Dothan (with your permission of course) :D


come on down here with us rednecks anytime. i will try my best to make sure the car is here and not in atlanta if you can give me some heads up. oh and i can gurantee nothing on its state of blownupness :D as it is always on the haggared edge.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 8:36 pm 
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Hey guys don't get me wrong i'm not going to mimic your setting figure for figure i just want an idea of how much timing these motors can run.

I would NEVER changes my current setting without having my car on a dyno and a knock monitor and wideband AFR meter hooked up.

My god what do you think i am man ?..... i'm not asking you to indicate the full timing map so that i can mimic. i just want to know your max timming at full boost. I am quite aware of "What work for me may not work for you".

If you want us to discuss Maps then we can PM each other
I've done this with a couple of teamswift members already, ive even recieved the Stock timing curves for the GTi.
I understand the work and effort that goes into this type of build.

I too am trying with these GTi's what is killing each and everyone of us is the lack of a Knowledge Base for these motors.

People ask me what is the max power that these engine can build? i don't know
Whats the the EGT on a boosted GTi motor? i don't know
Whats the Max HP the Stock RODs can take? I don't know
Whats the MAX hp the vitara pistons can take? I don't know
Whats the max boost you can run on the vitara pistons? i don't know

Sometimes i feel as if only a handful of us here on Teamswift are really committed to the development of these engines.

Screwdzuki i didn't expect to come out so aggresive in your thread, believe me this is not what i wanted i just wanted to remind you guys on TEAMSWIFT what this forum was started for and also why we all became members.

Screwedzuki Keep up the work and please keep us all informed.
(When your good and ready to that is) :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 9:18 pm 
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GtiT! Most (if not all) of these guy here on this forum are not willing to share shit when it come to developing the ssgti. It all about bragging rights within the community. However, they will glady accecpt any advise/experience you can offer.

WTF, I once had this discussion w/ Whattheeee, Adam, Jess, you name it with regards to ignition curves...they all gave fantastic reason as to why not but also never gave....

I really think, that stating the reason above ^^^ "Don't want to blow no one's motor" for not sharing ign cuvre info is the poorest you can offer. Jesus! if someone opt to plugin untested valves into thier computer and the motor blows, WTF does that have to do w/ you. You didn't blow it. :lol:

Anyhow, WTF does I know anyway...I'm a freaking poor guy in caribbean watching waves all day. 8)


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 9:28 pm 
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Location: Alabama
GtiT wrote:
Hey guys don't get me wrong i'm not going to mimic your setting figure for figure i just want an idea of how much timing these motors can run.

I would NEVER changes my current setting without having my car on a dyno and a knock monitor and wideband AFR meter hooked up.

My god what do you think i am man ?..... i'm not asking you to indicate the full timing map so that i can mimic. i just want to know your max timming at full boost. I am quite aware of "What work for me may not work for you".

If you want us to discuss Maps then we can PM each other
I've done this with a couple of teamswift members already, ive even recieved the Stock timing curves for the GTi.
I understand the work and effort that goes into this type of build.

I too am trying with these GTi's what is killing each and everyone of us is the lack of a Knowledge Base for these motors.

People ask me what is the max power that these engine can build? i don't know
Whats the the EGT on a boosted GTi motor? i don't know
Whats the Max HP the Stock RODs can take? I don't know
Whats the MAX hp the vitara pistons can take? I don't know
Whats the max boost you can run on the vitara pistons? i don't know

Sometimes i feel as if only a handful of us here on Teamswift are really committed to the development of these engines.

Screwdzuki i didn't expect to come out so aggresive in your thread, believe me this is not what i wanted i just wanted to remind you guys on TEAMSWIFT what this forum was started for and also why we all became members.

Screwedzuki Keep up the work and please keep us all informed.
(When your good and ready to that is) :lol:



i can answere some of your questions in my opinion or in my experience is all i can relate to. with that stated

i usually see 1200F -1350F on my egt on 12psi
you didnt ask but others have a god AFR on a acurate wideband would be 13.0 to 14.7 under WOT and around 12.0 idling or mid throttle. anything leaner than 14.7 you are asking for trouble. im not saying our motors cant handle it you are just in dangerous territory.


as for the rods in the gti they are forged and should be very capable of handling 450hp. if you look at the wristpin size and crank journal size they are in a healthy proportion to the bore and stroke of the motor. also you have to look at the fact that the suzi 1.3 is almost a square motor design with means the stroke and bore are of the same size, this definatly helps in every aspect of regidity and over all tuffness.

you asked about how much boost or power the vitara pistons could handle, well that is really a question of tuning and turbo sizing as a 40 trim turbo might flow 300cfm at 12psi and a 57 trim turbo might flow 500cfm at 12 psi, resulting in a very different combustion chamber volume and therefore different combustion chamber pressures.

and one downside of the motor design that is often overlooked by those seeking more power is the open waterjacket design. the bandaid to this problem is the block guard, its still not as good as a cast closed deck design but it is the only option availble. the problem you have with a openwater jacket is there is nothing holding the top of the piston sleve to the motor. what happens a high rpms especially under increased cylinder pressures is that the cylinder walls start to move at the top which is the weakest part of any internal combustion anyway becasue it sees the most pressure when the combustion happens and as the piston moves down in the cylinder there is greater volume for the pressure to be exerted over therefore lessing the combustion chamber pressure at the bottom of the combustion stroke. the block guard goes into the top of the waterjacket and snugly fits into place making it as close to a cast closed deck design as possible.

another issue that i have is that a head stud is a must when building a true performance engine that is going to see signigicantly increased compression ratios or a good amount of boost. people wonder why they keep blowing head gaskets and its because of the insuffiecient clamping force offered from the stock bolts. you cant mearly torque the stock bolts down more to get more clamping force as they will stretch and ruin the bolt. whereas a high quality stud can infact be tightened down and extra 10-15lbs, over stock, with no ill effects. therefore offering you greater clamping force and when combined with a block guard also increasing the surface area to clamp to.

i also recommend applying copper spray to all head gaskets when they are being applied as it offers a superior sealing ability over just a plain headgasket or metal headgasket.

some of these things you asked some others did some i just thought needed to be said for the purpose of those who didnt ask and never knew


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 9:36 pm 
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MF89 wrote:
GtiT!
I really think, that stating the reason above ^^^ "Don't want to blow no one's motor" for not sharing ign cuvre info is the poorest you can offer. Jesus! if someone opt to plugin untested valves into thier computer and the motor blows, WTF does that have to do w/ you. You didn't blow it. :lol:

Anyhow, WTF does I know anyway...I'm a freaking poor guy in caribbean watching waves all day. 8)


here you all go are you ready for this im going to tell you what my ignition settings are.

they are stock thats right i said it stock, timing is set to 6deg cam gears are on 0. i didnt think it was that big of a deal but i was wrong. i wanted to wait untill we really started tuning it to release some #s but noooo you had to get all negative. (not you GTiT I will help you out anytime i can) the negativeity coming off of you mf89 is unreal you would thing with all of those waves you are watching and that great beach air your blood pressure wouldnt be through the roof. take some advice go drink a corrona and sit in the shade before you blow and o-ring


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 9:42 pm 
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screwedzuki wrote:
come on down here with us rednecks anytime. i will try my best to make sure the car is here and not in atlanta if you can give me some heads up. oh and i can gurantee nothing on its state of blownupness :D as it is always on the haggared edge.


Sweet! I'll definitely give you a heads up to when I'm in the neighborhood. It'll give me much needed time away from the in-laws. :-P

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 9:44 pm 
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screwedzuki wrote:
the negativeity coming off of you mf89 is unreal you would thing with all of those waves you are watching and that great beach air your blood pressure wouldnt be through the roof. take some advice go drink a corrona and sit in the shade before you blow and o-ring


8) Cool, advise taken.... I just have a really short fuse for BS....


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:48 am 
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screwedzuki wrote:
they are stock thats right i said it stock, timing is set to 6deg cam gears are on 0.


My god !
so do you use retard per psi of boost? ...... if not thats very interesting .....

I may have to consider one of OCC block guards on my next engine pull down.
Along with one of Jars ELM.

On my timing maps i don't retard timing untill i see 14psi so even at 10psi my timing is 30 degrees ! But i get full boost at less than 4000RPM anyway so 30 degrees does hurt the car at that RPM above 4000RPM and 14psi i retard by 3 degrees Hence the 27 degrees at 16psi full boost!

As i safety measure i retard timing by 5 degrees above 16 psi.
Also untill i've fully dyno tuned the engine i've set my fuel cut at 6500RPM and REV limiter at 7000RPM.
I really don't want to hurt the engine.
Water Injection come in at 10PSi but i want to change that to 12psi.

Anyway Keep the information flowing.

MF89 if you feel the need come down to Jamaica for the Jazz Festival :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:29 pm 
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Location: Alabama
no there is no boost depended timing retard control. im simply running a super ignition system. it consist of

MSD 6AL ignition box http://www.msdignition.com
MSD Tach Adapter http://www.msdignition.com
Nology M-75 Coil http://www.nology.com you all need to check this company out. they have the best ignition wires period.
Nology ignition wires http://www.nology.com
Nology spark plugs 2 heat ranges colder than stock.

also fuel is not lacking, infact the car still loads up now. i have it running pig rich just for safety sake right now.

i also have two 1300 CCA racing slim design batteries in the back of the car wired together to produce 2600 CCA at 12 volts. but i find i still have to bring the car in and put it on the charger about once a month as the stock alternator cannot keep up with the electrical power demands of the car. and i have replaced the alternator twice from 2 different manufactures and still have the same problem. and there is no stereo or anything in the car besides lights and few little electrical items in the car, fuel pump, S-afc, all guages, ect. so the ignitions system must be putting a serious drain on the battery reserve in the car


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:00 pm 
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screwedzuki wrote:
no there is no boost depended timing retard control. im simply running a super ignition system. it consist of

MSD 6AL ignition box http://www.msdignition.com
MSD Tach Adapter http://www.msdignition.com
Nology M-75 Coil http://www.nology.com you all need to check this company out. they have the best ignition wires period.
Nology ignition wires http://www.nology.com
Nology spark plugs 2 heat ranges colder than stock.

also fuel is not lacking, infact the car still loads up now. i have it running pig rich just for safety sake right now.

i also have two 1300 CCA racing slim design batteries in the back of the car wired together to produce 2600 CCA at 12 volts. but i find i still have to bring the car in and put it on the charger about once a month as the stock alternator cannot keep up with the electrical power demands of the car. and i have replaced the alternator twice from 2 different manufactures and still have the same problem. and there is no stereo or anything in the car besides lights and few little electrical items in the car, fuel pump, S-afc, all guages, ect. so the ignitions system must be putting a serious drain on the battery reserve in the car


Image

I have all of that and more in my lil zuki
include
- MSD DIS2 w/ 2 dual post coils
- a/c
- power windows
- JVC & Inifinity Sound System
- etc etc etc

and I have no problem whats so ever w/ ONE 600 Cranking Amp 13Plate POS Battery and the stock 55amp alternator :roll:
Btw, pig rich is 11:1 & 10:1 a/f....anyhow, you should get your grounding check buddy 8)


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:03 pm 
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screwedzuki wrote:
you all need to check this company out. they have the best ignition wires period.
Nology ignition wires http://www.nology.com

that's a pretty tall claim, nology wires are the most expensive period. they could be claimed as the most gimmicky wires period. i don't think i'd ever make such a bold claim as the best period 'tho, i think a good race wire like the ss wound auroras are a much better way to go, track proven, affordable, and a lifetime warranty. oh & auroras don't require the additional mess of grounding wires for each lead.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:29 pm 
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Alternator not charging, thats strange... maybe your Alternator wiring needs to be checked or rewound.

How can you make 250hp with a rich mixture?

Hmmmm imagine if you actually tune out the rich mixture to 13:1 u would prob make it to the 300whp mark..


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 4:53 pm 
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Location: Alabama
MF89 wrote:
screwedzuki wrote:
no there is no boost depended timing retard control. im simply running a super ignition system. it consist of

MSD 6AL ignition box http://www.msdignition.com
MSD Tach Adapter http://www.msdignition.com
Nology M-75 Coil http://www.nology.com you all need to check this company out. they have the best ignition wires period.
Nology ignition wires http://www.nology.com
Nology spark plugs 2 heat ranges colder than stock.

also fuel is not lacking, infact the car still loads up now. i have it running pig rich just for safety sake right now.

i also have two 1300 CCA racing slim design batteries in the back of the car wired together to produce 2600 CCA at 12 volts. but i find i still have to bring the car in and put it on the charger about once a month as the stock alternator cannot keep up with the electrical power demands of the car. and i have replaced the alternator twice from 2 different manufactures and still have the same problem. and there is no stereo or anything in the car besides lights and few little electrical items in the car, fuel pump, S-afc, all guages, ect. so the ignitions system must be putting a serious drain on the battery reserve in the car


Image

I have all of that and more in my lil zuki
include
- MSD DIS2 w/ 2 dual post coils
- a/c
- power windows
- JVC & Inifinity Sound System
- etc etc etc

and I have no problem whats so ever w/ ONE 600 Cranking Amp 13Plate POS Battery and the stock 55amp alternator :roll:
Btw, pig rich is 11:1 & 10:1 a/f....anyhow, you should get your grounding check buddy 8)


thats your experience and this is mine. you can start your own thread if you like since you seem to contradict everything i say.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 5:00 pm 
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n1tr0 wrote:
screwedzuki wrote:
you all need to check this company out. they have the best ignition wires period.
Nology ignition wires http://www.nology.com

that's a pretty tall claim, nology wires are the most expensive period. they could be claimed as the most gimmicky wires period. i don't think i'd ever make such a bold claim as the best period 'tho, i think a good race wire like the ss wound auroras are a much better way to go, track proven, affordable, and a lifetime warranty. oh & auroras don't require the additional mess of grounding wires for each lead.


all i cans say kris is that you surely havent tried them if you think there is a better wire out there. i have tried everything from NGK, MSD, Accell, Nology, Magnecore, and about 5 or 6 others that i cant think of right now. and in my experience nology has out performed every other wire i have ever had. and if you look at me pics you can see quite a few of them with the wires in place and the grounding strap is not the least bet cumersome but infact a very trick looking part. its not like you have to unground them if you want to pull them off the plugs as the ground wire is long enouph to do this and the only time you have to unbolt them is if you are completely removing them off the car altogther and then its only 2 bolts as i have them doubled up at there grouding points.


you really should try some if you can get your hands on them they are about $95 u.s. but it will be the last set of wires you will ever buy.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 5:05 pm 
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GtiT wrote:
Alternator not charging, thats strange... maybe your Alternator wiring needs to be checked or rewound.

How can you make 250hp with a rich mixture?

Hmmmm imagine if you actually tune out the rich mixture to 13:1 u would prob make it to the 300whp mark..


the wiring in the cars ar notoriusly crappy and i am constantly having to rewire something that has failed. that has alot to do with it.

as for the rich mixture thats just how i do it as i always start out pig rich and work my way down slowly, im not some super tuner that can have the car done id 30 minuites but yet it takes me a long time to do it as i try so many different things to make sure all angles of attack have been covered.

and yes 13.1 would be super but we are shooting for 14.4 with a egt of no more than 1500F that will give you an idea of what we are after.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 5:05 pm 
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I'm no sucker for dyno runs...

any intentions for timeslips?

there's gotta be a dragstrip in Alabama close by that you could do a few passes on...right?

any intentions?

TGstring

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 Post subject: Re: ...
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 5:39 pm 
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TGstring wrote:
I'm no sucker for dyno runs...

any intentions for timeslips?

there's gotta be a dragstrip in Alabama close by that you could do a few passes on...right?

any intentions?

TGstring


i can provide 1\8 mile times this weekend if you all would like and maybe that can passify some of you untill i can post up the dyno #s. let me know it this will work for some of you as we have a 1\8 mile course not 10 miles from my shop


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 6:49 pm 
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Like what u guys are doing with the car :) i'm also very curious about the dyno's and track times :)

Makes me wonder when is occracing going to sell some goodies u used for the engine setup??

keep us posted :P

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:06 pm 
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[quote="

Makes me wonder when is occracing going to sell some goodies u used for the engine setup??

[/quote]

you can contact adam (bigbearzuk) and he can tell you what is availble now. and as for the trannies and their inhereint weekness i may have found the answere here in the good ol U.S. of A. i have two leads i am looking into one will be rediculously expensive but the other should be obtainably affordable. i will keep you all posted on my findings i should know something in 2 weeks to a month. and then i will release where you can get it done at and to let you all know it will not be available from me or anyother team swift supplier. thats right i am going to tell EVERYBODY where to send there trannies to get them done bypassing any middle man. if everything goes accordingly


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:57 pm 
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Hahaha, you used "if". Good ol' way to get out of what you said :lol: Just kidding. I am very interested in the hi-po buildups some of the people do on this site, and any info they give to us is greatly appreciated. I was just thinking about commercials and stuff how it says "New and improved" and stuff like that. Anyways, I'm done.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:42 pm 
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Hey clayton, this is Heath, there isnt an all whell dyno here in birmingham anymore. It closed down a few weeks ago. But if you have any other reason to go to b'ham let me know and you can stop by. I still would like you to look at my car and let me know what you think.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 10:09 pm 
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Well it always best to go from a rich mixture to a lean mixture.

And we both have a Water injection kit installed , So i know your 14:1 AFR is obtainable. with proper tuning.

Man i tell you screwedzuki you have given me some inspiration to finally go out and dyno tune my ECU to see what sort of power i can make.

1500 degrees F hmmm have you ever thought of injecting a mixture of Water/Alcohol .... this would help to keep combustion chamber temperature low and EGT's low as well.

I'm happy to see you sharing information screwedzuki .... hopefully we can see some of your parts available through one of our suppliers.

I personally interested in the
Cam Gears
Block Guard
I preffer Jardamuths Exhaust Manifold thou 8)


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 Post subject: Re: ...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 12:19 am 
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screwedzuki wrote:
i can provide 1\8 mile times this weekend if you all would like and maybe that can passify some of you untill i can post up the dyno #s. let me know it this will work for some of you as we have a 1\8 mile course not 10 miles from my shop

Really man, you don't have to prove yourself to anyone. If you say your car makes 250 hp, then that's what it makes. So far no one has proven that it doesn't make that. Having said that I'm surprised that stock ecu can handle 250hp.

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