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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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 Post subject: Turbo or NOS?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2002 1:18 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2002 10:00 pm
Posts: 179
Location: Mississauga (Toronto), Ontario, Canada
Hi all, just wondering what you think, Turbo or NOS? And what you've done.<br><br>I'm still thinking which I want as I have all internal mods done to engine but gasp the killer high compression pistons, wanted to keep natural aspiration, but as we all do got bug to run faster mid to low 15's doesnt cut it anymore!!<br><br>I know Turbo has advantage for always being there, but lack of feul economy (thought last thing on my mind), and NOS has advantage of saving gas mileage but pain in ass to keep refilling or not..<br><br>Let me know guys Turbo or NOS??<br><br>Troy <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: Turbo or NOS?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2002 4:16 pm 
Hi<br>If i was you id think of just having a LOW boost setup that runs 6-8psi which you can buy as a kit and uses a t25 turbo as long as you dont want to run high boost it should be ok and keep the fuel bill down and with NOS you should get it aswel but make sure you get the right advice on which system to run and ive heard on some systems they use special spark plugs, the dry 50hp shot nos would be the one to go.<br>Im no expert!<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.senselessbehaviour.cjb.net/">www.senselessbehaviour.cjb.net/</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br> <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: hey
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2002 5:50 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2002 10:00 pm
Posts: 179
Location: Mississauga (Toronto), Ontario, Canada
Thanks for advice, that's the route I'm thinking of going but looking at doing a cheap set-up with some used parts. Any ideas on this would be appreciated.<br><br>Troy <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: hey
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2002 1:53 am 
Well you can order an AVO turbo kit <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.avoturbo.com">www.avoturbo.com</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> they have the low boost kits with all instructions that will suit you setup there 2 different kits both under $5000AUD and use a t25 turbo you get all piping manifold intercooler etc and if you live USA ,canada itll be half that price and they ship anywere they are not rated the best kits but for a low boost setup it would be perfect. <br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.senselessbehaviour.cjb.net/">www.senselessbehaviour.cjb.net/</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: hey
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2002 11:19 am 
How much are you willing to spend?<br><br>A NOS setup is around $500, while a Brand New Turbo system is around $2,000 USD. If you want a low boost system with no Intercooler, then you can have it made for around $1300.<br><br>I made my own turbo system with a combination of new and used parts. The total cost was around $2200 including the engine internal mods. I'm running 10PSI, but the engine can handle up to 25 if I supply the right amount of fuel, with an aftermarket computer $$$ and proper fueling system.<br><br>If you like to race a lot then a Turbo will be more economical on the long term, otherwise the NOS is better and faster to build( around 2-3 hours).<br><br> <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: hey
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2002 11:30 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2002 10:00 pm
Posts: 179
Location: Mississauga (Toronto), Ontario, Canada
To be honest nopt sure what I'm looking to spend, but since I do have a lil shop most guys seem more interested in Turbo so I suppose I might go that route. I prefer 1/4 mile race only now not really into raod racing, got go-kart for that :-)<br><br>Anymore advice or specs and details would be appreciated of your set-up.<br><br>Thanks guys <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: hey
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2002 10:38 pm 
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Senior Swift Guru

Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2001 11:55 am
Posts: 2595
Location: Calgary, Alberta
<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.angelfire.com/de/ksj/nitrous.html">www.angelfire.com/de/ksj/nitrous.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> for the nos set-up on my Swift.<br><br>Nitrous-pain in the ass for traction control. It's either on/off WOT,(not a problem with smaller jets though), as opposed to a turbo where you do have a certain amount of throttle control, or you could at least have a dual stage boost controller and lower boost in first gear. Nitrous is easier ot install, has cooler intake charges, and with a wet system it is the safer than dry system as the fuel supply is already accounted for and injected. The total cost of my nitrous set up was maybe $400 canadian with used parts and buying hte appropiate braided lines and jets. <br><br> My total nitrous useage cost last summer was probably not even $200CAN. Raced many cars on the street, and at track with jets up to a solid 50hp. Even 5 years at that price would still only add up to $1000 worth of NOS plus you can transfer the system to any car. Still much cheaper than a turbo set-up. Fear of wasting NOS also helps keep you out of trouble at times (smaller jets also use less nitrous and are enough to have fun).<br><br> However as mentioned, for traction control (especially on corners which is a concern of mine) and just for convenience the turbo is the way to go. Fuel mileage shouldn't be horribly affected, but I'd expect probably a loss of around 5mpg depending on how you drive. <br><br> I'm building a turbo set-up in my garage out of used parts right now, and I was looking to be done within a week or so, but I got pretty sick so I will probably stay out of the garage for a while. The biggest most time consuming pain in the butt part of building your own turbo set-up is the manifold. As an experiment I've built my manifold out of maybe $20 worth of schedule 40 steel weld-els, and a small portion of $20 worth of steel re-bar for the flanges. There are some problem with the simple log-style manifold design I'm using on the Swift, and I'm not even sure it will all work the way I want so I also have another flange I picked up from Tom for a better style manifold I'm going to design later this summer (still built out of weld-els which are only like $2-$3 each). Also, at this point, it is still specualtion that the $50 turbo I bought will work well. However, everything else (intercooler, piping,etc.) looks to be falling in place nicely and shouldn't hinder the home-built side of things at all.<br><br>unlike some other GTi boards that only want your money and to copyright every picture that isn't even theirs and make them as small and illegible as possible, when all is said and done I will have a page with all the info on what I had to do and where I picked what up, and I will have all the big pictures you should want, some calculations, tips, and more for everyone to peruse.<br><br>Anyhoo... for ease of install I'd go for a used nitrous set-up... for convenience and traction on high-hp I'd go turbo... depends what you want and what you expect.<br><br><br><br> <p><br><a href="http://www.teamswift.net"><img src="http://members.home.net/2832075173/pics/Swiftafter1c.jpg"></a></img><br>Kyle Jones <b>1989 Suzuki Swift GTi</b><br>Your friendly TeamSwift Op.</p><i></i>


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 Post subject: hey
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2002 8:57 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2002 10:00 pm
Posts: 179
Location: Mississauga (Toronto), Ontario, Canada
Just asking but any used NOS sets out there? <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: hey
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2002 10:03 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2001 8:13 pm
Posts: 222
Location: Northern New Jersey
What are you using for an intercooler <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: hey
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2002 10:35 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 11:03 pm
Posts: 214
Location: Calgary, Alberta. Canada
Kyles using a 1G DSM intercooler. <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: hey
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2002 11:56 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2002 10:00 pm
Posts: 179
Location: Mississauga (Toronto), Ontario, Canada
Can most of turbo stuff be used from Eagle Talon?, including blow off valve and such? except for custom manifold ofcourse. And how does intercooler from talon fit? <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: hey
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2002 11:48 pm 
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Senior Swift Guru

Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2001 11:55 am
Posts: 2595
Location: Calgary, Alberta
It's not the best intercooler to mount in the frount due to the size and the way the pipes exit. Even if you cut off the inlet and outlet pipes and put on your own it's still going to have to be a bad design with a lot of bends to make it work. If you're looking front-mount I'd suggest looking into other ideas. <br><br>I'm using it as a side-mount and it will be nice having it away from all the excess engine heat... Although, even as a side-mount the inlet/outlet pipes will have to be chopped and re-welded to get the appropiate angle (and it's aluminum). Also, in addition on mine, I'll be making a 2" hole somewhere under where the stock air filter set-up used to go (so I can lessen the amount of bends). I also had to take out the stock fog-light and cut through teh panel, My set-up is a bit backwards from the way you normally see the turbos on Swifts built, which was all mostly because the $50 Mitsu turbo I'm using is really only good to mount one way. In the end, there may be some advantages this way that I haven't seen in others as even the intercooler piping internal volume flow losses are going to be cut down almost by half.<br><br>-----<br><br>blow-off vlave can be used, injectors are of the same impedance and should work... turbo however I wouldn't use unless it is from the 95+ (the T25)... and maybe the turbo from the automatics as they should be smaller.<br> <p><br><a href="http://www.teamswift.net"><img src="http://members.home.net/2832075173/pics/Swiftafter1c.jpg"></a></img><br>Kyle Jones <b>1989 Suzuki Swift GTi</b><br>Your friendly TeamSwift Op.</p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: hey
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2002 4:44 pm 
How much time are you willing to give in installing a Turbo? A Nitrous system can be done in one day. A turbo can take longer. If you go either way. Make sure to upgrade ignition and fuel pump. Will you be racing at TorontoMotorSports (Cayuga) this year? <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: hey
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2002 11:21 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2002 10:00 pm
Posts: 179
Location: Mississauga (Toronto), Ontario, Canada
Kyle, I wasn't quite sure about the intercooler..so thanks for the info...which one is would fit best for front mount? Daytona? Keep in mind this is a small set-up i might do as I want to keep my a/c...:-)<br><br>AS well do you think a turbo off a Turbo Firefly will work ok? I know it's small but I do have all engine work done with high compression..(i know bad idea for turbo), but my first intention was to get most out of natural aspiration...well greedy time. <br><br>So maybe just NOS..but i still like turbo idea.<br><br>And as for Cayuga, I'm not sure I havn't raced in two years..made my money..from Woodbridge drags..hehe and won my 2 main events I entered at Cayuga..but if i do go NOS or turbo, i may have to bring out the lil thing again.<br><br>Thank guys keep your opinions coming<br><br> <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: hey
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2002 7:41 pm 
Go to this page, if you want to see a Turbo Swift with A/C. It was one of the first turbocharged Swifts in Puerto Rico. Note where the turbo is located. <br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.robertsite.8m.com/nitrous_system.htm">www.robertsite.8m.com/nitrous_system.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br> <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: hey
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2002 5:43 pm 
If the engine is all done, than juice it up...just don't forget to upgrade you ignition and fuel pump.... <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub83.ezboard.com/uholyshift.showPublicProfile?language=EN>Holy Shift</A> at: 1/12/02 4:45:00 pm<br></i>


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 Post subject: k
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2002 9:36 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2002 10:00 pm
Posts: 179
Location: Mississauga (Toronto), Ontario, Canada
Ok so now i'm looking for NOS for now, anybody know of a used kit for sale, maybe a ZEX kit or a NOS kit, prefer wet set up system I thin...any other ideas?<br>Though when i buy another Swift if i ever find another cheapie then i'll turbo it till she blows...so anybody see a used one in the GTA are or within driving distance let me know.<br><br>Thanks <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: k
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2002 6:34 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2001 8:13 pm
Posts: 222
Location: Northern New Jersey
Don't know where you are but there is one on Ebay for $1950 now <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: k
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2002 11:21 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 11:03 pm
Posts: 214
Location: Calgary, Alberta. Canada
If you keep an eye out you can pick NOS up for quite cheap. Look on the bottle to see how old it is first. It will have a date on it to show you when you have to get it re-certified.<br>I bought a NOS wet system complete minus the hold down brackets, a set of Reactive coil overs (new) and a set of 4 205/55/ZR16 tires for $425 CDN. It's worth you time to hang out with the seller and talk shop with him <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :hat --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/pimp.gif ALT=":hat"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: hey
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2002 7:16 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2002 10:00 pm
Posts: 179
Location: Mississauga (Toronto), Ontario, Canada
Bear....what A steal you picked it up for, I take it they were a used set and all, but sweet deal....and if you happen to see another for that let me know.<br><br>And I will check out ebay if that was 195 not 1950..ouch <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: hey
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2002 6:21 am 
Hi, this is my 2nd or 3rd time to post on this board, but I hope you guy don't mind me posting my opinion. <br><br>“I prefer 1/4 mile race only now” by tmsswift<br><br>From my experience, basic turbo setup of using T25 with low boost won’t usually beat basic dry nos kit with correct bottle pressure in ¼ mile. <br><br>-Turbo charged car is harder to control(tune). When turbo engine blow it's usually because of bad tune or bad setup.<br><br>-It's hard to control yourself if you have NOS. When engine with NOS blow it's usually because of driver.<br><br>-t25 is good for at least upto 17psi with intercooler.<br><br>-Traction issue by using NOS can be solve by using NOS controller.<br><br>-All 2g DSM comes with t25 either auto or manual<br><br>-1g DSM comes with 14b and some(forgot which year) auto comes with smaller turbo(forgot name of it).<br><br>-Ebay is usually good place to buy nos kit for cheap, but make sure they have all the parts you need to install. Usually used nos kit missing some parts.<br><br>-Ebay is usually not good place to find DSM parts cheap. Better palce is junk yeard or DSM boards.<br><br>-Ebay is almost best place to buy a brand new zex kit(new or used).<br><br> <p><b>Team Ukosias Racing</b><br>90 Tsi<br>97 Civic LX</p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: hey
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2002 7:07 am 
Why not have 'em both?? NOS will cool the pipes while under boost therefore you can boost up the turb (well i can anyway)<br><br>Stay tuned as i have just purchased a 4wd gearbox and driveline for my GTi and considering NOS with my turbo setup. I am hoping this thing will be a weapon............ <p></p><i></i>


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2002 1:08 pm 
I also have a q about traction control with NOS controller, what is it? <p></p><i></i>


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2002 10:42 pm 
isn't NOS really bad for your engine? that is if the engine internals were stock. I can just inagine how fast my metro engine would fall apart on NOS! <p></p><i></i>


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