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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:14 pm 
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Location: Caribbean
I'm doing plenty reading and researching on turbocharging my stock g13b motor. I'm far from ready from actually collecting parts, just researching to see whats best for what I want to do....

So here is what I have in mind.....I WANT TO HAVE AIR CONDITIONING....That's a must...So I guess how the manifold is built will determine if I can use the a/c or not.....I want just a measly 10lbs high boost and about 5-7lbs low...So I was thinking the smallest BB Garrett turbo there is and I found out its the GT25 turbocharger....

So what I have in mind is an equal length hopefully SS manifold made to accomdate the A/C and a garret GT25 turbocharger with front mount IC that wouldn't affect the condenser or drier bottle etc....Some 250cc fuel injectors from my calculation, should be enough fuel for 10lbs of boost and still a little for cooling purposes with intank 255gph pump, high flow fuel rail and adjustable FPR should handle things on the fuel side....About spark, I was thinking to install a MSD Blaster coil, bigger spark cables and some cold plugs. Don't really want to use the MSD Ignition Controller/Box but if I have to I guess that would have to be done so the fuel wouldn't drown the spark. Should I have to worry about pinking that methanol injection have to be used for prevention or I should be good once high enough octane fuel is used?.....Would 2" be enough on the exhaust side of things or I should go 2.5"?

And to control it all a haltech or megasquirt EMS

What do you guys think?...Am I going in the right path or not...This would be a Daily Driver so just keep that in mind. Any suggestions welcome...Just trying to learn as much as i can so I can Do it myself.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:32 pm 
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I'm keeping my A/C and trying to get a equal length manifold and GT2560 turbo for my mk1. I'm getting a narrower condensor like this one and moving it infront of the radiator. I'll need to make new lines too but that shouldn't be a problem.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 4:12 pm 
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Location: Lakeland , Florida
From what ive expericenced no you shouldnt have a problem with det. as long as you have a good tune. you might want to add a wideband sensor and gauge to your list it could save your life and is well worth the money. I ran well over 10psi on the stock compression on pump gas. In my oppinion i would suggest arp headstuds because at 10psi your stock headgasket will most likely blow and instead of wasting the money getting your block oringed do it right and get a mls headgasket from strider. From what i have seen people say 2 inch should be fine just make sure it is free flowing enough and there is no old cat..... or anything else that could be getting plugged up. Turbo if you want to go bb for somereason for that low boost you could look for the actual jdm skyline turbos. They are bb and you can pick them up for around $250 with 40-50000km on them. You could get away with a small turbo no bb and it would spool plenty quick enough for you. 2500-3000rpm. This is just a little on what i think. msd they say isnt needed but for an extra $50 i would rather have one for all the extra spark you get and trust me seeing it on one of the testers that just screw out and leave a big gap the msd has way way more spark. Good luck on your setup. Thanks Stephen


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:13 pm 
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Well I have the arp studs and mls head gasket on my list. So as arp con rod and main bolts and a main bearing support girdle to help strengthen the lower end....the wideband i also have in the list plus oil pressure and boost/vacuum gauge..

The reason I didn't choose to go with a turbo from another car is because I want majority if not all of the parts to be new so I wouldn't have the problem with wear and tear and replacing or servicing anytime soon after I get the car going.

So I'm guessing all that has to be done is make the manifold so the turbo would be more forward to the front of the car or more to the rear of the motor so the intake piping from the air filter wouldn't hit the compressor?

Can someone post pics of their setup with a/c?

Are all the G13 engine series a/c compressors the same?

Was thinking if I can mount the compressor as low as possible on the block, I can possibly just buy the Turbine Tech ihi vf38 turbo kit and modify it to suit


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 6:39 pm 
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Location: Lakeland , Florida
From the way it looks to me you would have to move the turbo towards the radiator more to make it fit but i have never seen anyone run ac on a turbo g13. How much is the bb turbo your looking at??? I would suggest just going with a cheaper one if the only reason was you wanted a new turbo. You could always go with like a master power turbo. They are $500 for about what ever size you want. That what i was running on my car. I had about 10k on it and its still feels like new. It was at full 15-18psi by 4500 came in around 3800. It is theyre stage 2 t2/t3 turbo. And it would be plenty for higher boost. I dont know how you are with your money im just making the suggestions because i have been on a bit of a buget. As far as the arp mains i was running standard bolts at that point with no problem and used the factory little main gurtle. I would say they are fine for what your looking for but arp mains wouldnt hurt but the gurtle should be fine. Thanks Stephen


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:21 am 
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Location: Canberra, Australlia
I have setup with AC and Garrett GT2554 on internally standard engine (170K on clock of which about 50K+ turboed).

Log manifold or ss which will bring turbo close to engine will work.

Think you might have clearance issues with GT2560 or larger, but I know GT2554 works (as this is what I have with AC). The setup uses a reversed intake manifold to clear things.

Dont agree with your injector calculations. Suggest you look at the 390cc injectors (DSM Eclipse) or Supra black top 440cc injectors. This will also give you headroom for a little more later if needed and still very streetable (ie. standard idle). You also wont need to worry about FPR unless really needed.

Dont get MSD until you feel you have a spark issue. I have run gapped down standard plugs on 11psi and again perhaps go one step colder if needed.

You should use aftermarket ECU. I suggest tune on fuel one grade below what you plan to regularly use. Not sure what fuel quality is like there but gives you some headroom in case you have a bad batch.

Gearbox (diff and clutch) should be looked at. Suggest PG style LSD and a heavy duty clutch is a must.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:57 am 
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Location: Caribbean
Ok.. So some 440cc injectors it is then...What size injectors does these motors come with?

So I wouldn't need to upgrade the fuel rail nor FPR, just the injectors..How about the fuel pump?..I guess I'll be definitely needing that..........Where did you get your intake manifold from and does it has all the ports and such of the OEM manifold so I can hook back up everything that was onto the OEM manifold?

Can you post a pic of your engine bay setup and a close up of your turbo setup?

The fuel here isn't very good but I plan on getting some 103 to mix with it when I'm putting in gas.....

About clutch, I was looking on ACT's website for a clutch kit for the swift GTis but didn't find any....and about LSD, I don't necessarily need it as I have no plans on racing or stand still launches. Just some fun for a daily driver when the time comes....also what I have in mind is a 4.38:1 final drive as I would like to roll on 16s or with the turbo I wouldn't need the gear kit to pull them?

Guys keep telling me to go piggyack as full management isn't necessary but I think I can squeeze a little more out of this setup if I did go with full management so I am looking at megasquirt because of its price and what it can do or the most basic haltech EMS there is..
The turbo I would like to use is pretty small from what I understand(Garrett GT25 BB). Smallest BB turbo they have and I only want 10lbs maximum. I don't have plans on upgrading in the future. I don't know the price of the turbo and I'm also on a budget, probably even lower than most but I don't mind waiting as long as it takes to get everything as perfect as possible. Rome wasn't built in a day.. =)

Thanks yet again for your time advice and suggestions... Pllease keep them coming.

Ian


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:47 am 
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Location: Canberra, Australlia
Pictures thanks to Caaarlo
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I'm using standard MK3 rail, no FPR. Yes upgrade pump (eg. walbro) as standard will only do you up to around 150hp (and no headroom).

My manifold is a custom reversed cultus (chopped off the ends and swapped them), so has all the ports.

Photo of bay is about three years old, few changes since then :)
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Engine Bay 12MAY07.JPG
Engine Bay 12MAY07.JPG [ 362.75 KIB | Viewed 3059 times ]


Exedy, ACT and DMWDave (user on here and redlinegti) have heavy duty clutches for GTi.

Standard diff will survive if you dont regularly spin the wheels and shock the transmission.

Wouldn't use a 4.4, stick to the standard cwp, more than enough grunt to spin the wheels. I dont really go for the 16's. Use either 15's for the road with 195/50 or 45 series (cheap as readily available and good choice) and 205/60's on 13's for track. 16's mean too low a profile tyre and expensive when you have a turbo car that can peel the tread off with a bit too much of the loud pedal. Each to their own however!

Definitely go full management. Look at posts by caaarlo on his turbo car on which he ran megasquirt. If you are mixing your fuel definitely be conservative on the tune in case you make a mistake in a mix at some stage.

The GT2554 might seem small but on 11psi I have 123kW's at the wheel and good for mid 13 quarter mile (tuned on 98 RON fuel). Turbo spools easily by 1500rpm. Have a new engine going in mine and a lot more boost, but for a daily 10psi is more than enough to get you in trouble in every gear :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:38 pm 
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Location: Saint-Jérôme, Qc
I tried to installe a turbo with the AC on, using SRD'S manifold (looks like a turbonetics copy) but there's no way you can fit it with the stock AC. it interferes with the compressor AND the condenser, even if on their page they say it fits with AC.

We ended up removing the AC altogether... if you want cool air, open the windows and drive faster :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:11 pm 
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turbohull wrote:
if you want cool air, open the windows and drive faster :mrgreen:

this dont work in arizona

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:55 pm 
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Since you live there year long, how come you can't get used to heat? AC on those tiny cars is a serious power downgrade.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:22 pm 
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Jardamuth wrote:
AC on those tiny cars is a serious power downgrade.

that's why you need a turbo to begin with :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:37 pm 
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its all flat no hills and no turns

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:25 pm 
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:lol: You guys are funny......

Post a pic of the turbo manifold etc FlyingGrape


So 265cc is stock size injectors


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 6:01 am 
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Location: Canberra, Australlia
Sorry, no photo and car is 8,000k's away at the moment...

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:27 pm 
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WOW....So basically if I want to run A/C, I would have to get a manifold made for my application. So I guess if I install the A/C system, then I could take the car to get measured to make the manifold to suit the A/C right?

Also since I only want 10lbs can I run water/meth injection instead of having to run intercooler piping or its best to run an intercooler?

Sorry if I'm asking noob questions. Little new to this speed thing. :blackeye:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:45 pm 
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I got the condensor a few days ago. It has the same fittings but you'll have to have your lines re-made and I'm not sure how much the smaller condensor will affect how well the A/C works. The lower mounts bolt right on you'll just drill the holes. I got their polished dryer too. I'll have to have a manifold made and it will be a tight fit but it should be fine.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:37 pm 
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Turbo and A/C seems to be harder than I think :huh:


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 10:35 am 
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You could run meth/water injection but I would want to have a system that detected blocked jets/line breaks eg. aquamist.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 7:15 pm 
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FlyingGrape wrote:
You could run meth/water injection but I would want to have a system that detected blocked jets/line breaks eg. aquamist.


A.E.M good enough for the task?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:38 am 
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Dont know their stuff but dont think they have this detection setup.

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