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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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 Post subject: 92 LSI
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:29 pm 
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Posts: 40
Location: Bedford Pennsylvania
First off high to everyone out there I'm very new to all this turbo stuff.I've been into motors all my life so i know about that but the turbo stuff has got me.I love my 92 geo and all geos as a matter of fact.We have four at my house right now.I just see so much potential with the little three banger.I want more.So my thinking is a ported and polished head a cam and +6 timing gear and the dreaded "TURBO".My problem is I know nothing about turbos or the mega squirt stuff everyone is talking about.So my questions are what all is entailed in a turbo setup?I know that you obviously have a said "turbo" ,a intercooler,some type of waste gate and a way to supply oil to the turbo.Other than that I'm clueless.I also dont wanna run fancy megasquirt computer mumbo jumbo for fuel.I wanna get as much boost as possible with a stock bottom end and fueling system.This is a daily driver.Thanks in advance for the help.

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 Post subject: Re: 92 LSI
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:15 am 
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Location: Bedford Pennsylvania
Bump^^^^^^^^^^^ :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: 92 LSI
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 2:12 pm 
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Location: vineland NJ
Hey Hotrodgeo91, I was in the same situation as yourself. This http://www.mazdarotary.net/turbo.htm web-page helped out on understanding the whole concept of how turbos work. Also b/c you want it as a daily driver it would be good to use a t3/t4 turbo. B/c they are a smaller turbo it dose not need a lot of time to build boost (amount of air pressure pushed into the motor typically 8-10lbs for street use). You can also use a digital boost controller (does what it say's- controls the lbs of boost that goes into the motor) and with that you can change the pressure from street use to racing without popping you hood and showing everyone what you got.

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 Post subject: Re: 92 LSI
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 8:58 pm 
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Location: Bedford Pennsylvania
Thanks man.I'm totally lost with the whole turbo thing.

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 Post subject: Re: 92 LSI
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:22 pm 
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Location: columbus, ohio
if you're hell bent on running a turbo3, start out with an easier project.

find a canadian turbo firefly or sprint for parts, 89 to 91, and swap the whole system, engine and controls to your car. since the model range for the turbo3 was mk2 (89-91) it's easiest to swap everything over to a mk2 us model. that way things are plug and chug and it's really just a matter of transferring parts.

there's a pretty steep learning curve on turbo applications and if you start from scratch, it'll take a while just to read and understand the theoretical part. once you have that down (assuming that you already have a handle on basic automotive stuff concerning internal combustion engines) you might be ready to start playing with stuff.

i've seen a lot of guys over my life get the jones for turbo stuff only to end up trashing cars because they'd do wacky stuff - didn't have a handle on what to do.

the reason that most turbo guys migrate to the megasquirt controls is that it takes more range of control, finer fuel control, tighter spark management, and peripheral controls to handle running a boosted engine. there's more to things than just hanging a pump on the exhaust and letting it rip. if you are going to get serious about turbocharging you will most definitely have to become an expert on engine management (or get out your really big wallet to pay someone to do it for you.)

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 Post subject: Re: 92 LSI
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:07 pm 
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I only wanna run like 7 psi its not much I just wanna be able to leave the fueling system stock.

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 Post subject: Re: 92 LSI
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:59 am 
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stock turbo3 boost is 7.5 pounds, and that's with the much improved fuel distribution and control system.

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1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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 Post subject: Re: 92 LSI
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:54 am 
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Hotrodgeo91 wrote:
I only wanna run like 7 psi its not much I just wanna be able to leave the fueling system stock.


If I remember right, the stock fueling system on these cars is only good for 2psi of boost.

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My cars:

J. McBean: '98 Suzuki Swift 1.3L 16v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk5" Made in Canada
The Mini Rattler: '94 Suzuki Swift .993L 6v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk3" Made in Canada *The Winter Beater*
B. Berry: '90 Chevrolet Turbo Sprint 1.0L 6v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk2" Made in Japan

I got 18MPG in a 3cyl with a 5 speed manual 4dr, '93 Metro! :yeahyeah


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 Post subject: Re: 92 LSI
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:43 pm 
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Location: Bedford Pennsylvania
Well someone else on here said in another post they were running 8 psi on stock fueling tbi.

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 Post subject: Re: 92 LSI
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:38 am 
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With enough band-aids anything is possible- a boost retard box and a rising rate fpr and I could see 8 psi on a TBI T3. Although you might need a fuel pump for it?

Search the site- there are a couple guys on here that have turbo'd TBI 3's, and the 2 I'm thinking of aren't running them anymore if that tells you anything. :D

GeozukiGTi is one of them.... PM him or look at his build thread and I bet you can get all the info you want / need.

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 Post subject: Re: 92 LSI
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:50 am 
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Location: Bedford Pennsylvania
Anybody else care to bash my ideas or is someone gonna give me some input on the cts mod and all that goes into turboing these things.

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 Post subject: Re: 92 LSI
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:18 am 
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hey hotrod, much of what you might think is bashing might really be considered constructive advice.

as far as giving you help, the 2 guys who have done this conversion successfully haven't responded to your post. i started out doing what you're thinking, but soon moved onto a proper turbo3 as there were so many things that didn't work out.

the normally aspirated rods are like noodles and won't take much boost. the throttle body injection doesn't support any real applied boost no matter what type of work around i tried.

it all sounded good to me until i started actually turning wrenches and i ended up throwing a bunch of cash at it without getting much in the way of results. i am, however, glad that i did what i did because it was a great learning experience. i wouldn't deny you the same.

in the end, i was lucky enough to run across jardamuth on ebay. he got me straightened out and directed me to teamswift. after i started listening to the guys here, my turbo3 project got headed in the right direction. if i would have taken their advice as being bashing and continued on my dark path, i'd still be flailing around, throwing good money after bad, and wouldn't be enjoying a boosted g10 as a daily driver.

don't take it hard, bro. we're all just trying to help you. :wink:

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1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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 Post subject: Re: 92 LSI
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:11 am 
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Location: Bedford Pennsylvania
Ok but I still wanna do it this way there are people out there that have had good luck with the tbi.I've seen there vids and I know there members here.I just need some help with the whole turbo setup.Like what you need for oil lines and that kinda thing.Also i need someone to in detail tell me how to do the coolant temp sensor mod.

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 Post subject: Re: 92 LSI
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:23 am 
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Hotrodgeo91 wrote:
Anybody else care to bash my ideas or is someone gonna give me some input on the cts mod and all that goes into turboing these things.


:huh:

Wasn't bashing at all- just recognized that you aren't into searching too much and was just trying to let you know the overview I have seen on this site from others that have done it.

Some thicker skin would do you well out here on the internetz.

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 Post subject: Re: 92 LSI
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:29 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:15 am
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Location: Bedford Pennsylvania
Sorry man i must have taken it the wrong way.So does anybody know how to do the cts mod?

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 Post subject: Re: 92 LSI
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:35 pm 
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viewtopic.php?f=2&t=26951&start=0

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 Post subject: Re: 92 LSI
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:18 pm 
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Location: Bedford Pennsylvania
Thanks man.Any other input like oil lines and such?

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 Post subject: Re: 92 LSI
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:39 am 
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the stock turbo3 gets it's oil supply from a port at the front of the block. it's the 90 degree brass elbow above the reducer fitting i had for the oil pressure sender unit in this pic.
Image

see the elbow in this pic?
Image

the port is there on every g10 block but the n/a block has a pipe plug in it. it can be a bitch to remove and it's way easier to do with the engine out of the car and the engine mount bracket removed. on a freshly prepped n/a g10 block, the braided line with the red fitting is the proper oil line as supplied by turbine tech.
Image

that's the pressure or feed side of the turbo oil supply. the return port boss is also there on every g10 block. it's just not bored for the fitting on the n/a engines. when i prepped my n/a block for turbo use, i drilled and tapped the boss and installed a stainless steel threaded hose barb fitting.
Image

forget the blue silicone return hose. jardamuth pointed out to me that the oil return line has to present zero restriction to the flow on that side, that the oil temperature will be very high, and that the hose has to be extremely rugged. if the oil return line breaks, you'll pump all the oil out and screw the engine up bad.

there's a pic of an alternate way to do the oil return line, a bulkhead fitting in the oil pan, in the first pic above. yet another is to weld a tube onto the oil pan so you can attach the return hose.

the easiest way to deal with getting coolant to the turbo would be to source a turbo3 water neck and coolant intake pipe. the water neck has a nipple on it for the pressure side supply) and the water pump intake tube has a nipple on it for the suction side (return.) sorry for the bad shot, but the coolant supply is the fatter hose with the reflective sleeve, the return line is the thinner black hose coming off the chrome manifold that is stock on the rhb32 turbo.
Image

you can also find the boss for the coolant supply port on a n/a water neck. it will have a plug in it on the side of the neck that points towards the front of the car. you can drill and tap that boss and install a barbed hose bib there. i also used a tee in the heater hose as a turbo coolant return.

in this shot without the turbo in place, you can see the hoses. the chrome manifold is bolted to the block.
Image

every one of these pics is in my album. click on the bottom of any of my posts, the button that says "album" and page through that. there are even comments with the pics to explain things. you'll find lots of information and answers to your questions just by browsing all the pics available from the members who have done this stuff. be creative, make a list of what you'll need, look at your engine and pics on teamswift, and come up with your own solutions to get where you're going. that's half the fun of any project.

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1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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 Post subject: Re: 92 LSI
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:54 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:15 am
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Location: Bedford Pennsylvania
Thanks man.I really appreciate the support.

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 Post subject: Re: 92 LSI
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 9:24 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:15 am
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Location: Bedford Pennsylvania
Well guys now I'm not to sure im gonna do a turbo build.Im thinkin all motor now with three independent carbs like an old snowmobile.

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 Post subject: Re: 92 LSI
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 11:35 am 
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$ to H.P. turbo wins every time. N/A you will never see the kinds of gains(150% plus)you can get from a backyard turbo setup. Do you have another car you could drive while working on this one? If you post pics about your questions as you build lots of knowledgeable people on here can answer your specific questions as you run into them.

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 Post subject: Re: 92 LSI
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 12:09 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:15 am
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Location: Bedford Pennsylvania
Thanks airwerks but I think I'm set on a all motor build.Turbos are just to much to go wrong in my mind.Plus it should be done right with a mega suirt and i just cant see spending all that money.

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 Post subject: Re: 92 LSI
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 1:51 pm 
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Then you will be spending some time here: viewforum.php?f=8

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