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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:12 pm 
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rtsblwn wrote:
typically forged cranks can be identified against a cast crank by the wide parting line. cast have sharp cast parting lines.


Plus if you hit them with a wrench or a small hammer, a cast one sounds different than a forged one. But a forged porsche crank sounds also completely different the a forged g13b crank, this is why I tell earlier that there are lots of different forging methods.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:21 pm 
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impressive port work and overall build. I like it

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:03 pm 
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Great job on the build. Lot's of great stuff. Seems i might be the only one that threw in the towel on the G16 crankshaft. I was using a stock crank with eagle D16 rods, and King 1.0mm under rod bearings. The problems showed up around 300 HP, and showed up as low oil pressure upon startup for the next dyno pull. What i found was the crankshaft flex was so severe that it had wiped out the sides (front and rear of the bearing...upper, and lower)of the # 2 and 4 main bearings. This is common to see with a cracked crank in other engines, but my G16 crank was not cracked...it was just too flexy at that power level. The D16 crank did not suffer from this.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 2:11 am 
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so your saying it flexed at the machined heat treat section???


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:20 am 
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Mr.Pipe wrote:
Great job on the build. Lot's of great stuff. Seems i might be the only one that threw in the towel on the G16 crankshaft. I was using a stock crank with eagle D16 rods, and King 1.0mm under rod bearings. The problems showed up around 300 HP, and showed up as low oil pressure upon startup for the next dyno pull. What i found was the crankshaft flex was so severe that it had wiped out the sides (front and rear of the bearing...upper, and lower)of the # 2 and 4 main bearings. This is common to see with a cracked crank in other engines, but my G16 crank was not cracked...it was just too flexy at that power level. The D16 crank did not suffer from this.


As I mentioned earlier, the problem is with the bearings, not with the crank itself. You used King ones, 1 mm oversized, right? That's the 4th oversize, factory or ACL ones wont go further than 2th. And the problem is, the thickness of the hardened layer on the 1st and the 4th oversize is the same. In the case of King or similar cheap bearings, the main layer is too soft and it can upset under pressure, and thats why the crank starts to bend. And its like a row of dominos, the bearing loose its shape, the oil pressure starts to drop, the bearing suffers more damage, the crank starts to bend, and snap, finally breaks. But again, its not because the crank is weak or flexible, its because the bearings is too soft.

And after that, you switch to D16 crank. But with factory or 1st oversize bearings, right? Thats why it works, not because the D16 crank is forged next to excalibur.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:55 pm 
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quote..
"As I mentioned earlier, the problem is with the bearings, not with the crank itself. You used King ones, 1 mm oversized, right? That's the 4th oversize, factory or ACL ones wont go further than 2th. And the problem is, the thickness of the hardened layer on the 1st and the 4th oversize is the same. In the case of King or similar cheap bearings, the main layer is too soft and it can upset under pressure, and thats why the crank starts to bend. And its like a row of dominos, the bearing loose its shape, the oil pressure starts to drop, the bearing suffers more damage, the crank starts to bend, and snap, finally breaks. But again, its not because the crank is weak or flexible, its because the bearings is too soft. "

And after that, you switch to D16 crank. But with factory or 1st oversize bearings, right? Thats why it works, not because the D16 crank is forged next to excalibur.[/quote]


agreed. the reciprocating weights and piston speeds just are not gonna flex these cranks. hell they arent even dampened. i would suspect a bearing clearance problem as well. a crank just wont flex within the journals width and wipe bearings like that. crank flex would just take the whole bearing for a ride all together and spin it. or seize it..on top of that most folks are reusing stock main bolts...arp bolts/ studs will go along way at eliminating cap walk associated failure at the +300 hp mark. either way good luck. i think youll be a-ok.

d16 hondas handle some revs because of the knarly main girdle those suckers have...i have seen data from a nitro digger where they recorded crank TWIST up to nearly 40* at peak torque loads (6000 ftlbs -8000 rpm'ish). no flex laterally in relation to its plane though as indicated by bearings/ crank runout upon after rounds teardown..


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:56 pm 
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i dont see the bearings being to soft when any of the bearings can be scratched by a finger nail. But thats not what im talking about here. HE said MAIN bearings not rod bearings being wiped out. I would like to see pics of this build of his but i dont see the mains getting wiped out like he is saying.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:53 pm 
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Just so you know Guys, you cannot go oversize with bearings. Only undersize.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:54 am 
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Jardamuth wrote:
Just so you know Guys, you cannot go oversize with bearings. Only undersize.


People from different countries have different point of view. If you watch it from the point of the crank, yes, the correct term is undersize, because the crank's diameter will be smaller and smaller after each bearing size, so the inner diameter of the bearing will be also smaller and smaller. But if you watch it from the point of the bearing, it's thickness will be bigger and bigger, and thats can be called as oversize.

There are some countries where people even counts backward, or write from left to the right, or up to down, counts in feet, yard, etc.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:03 am 
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I think we should leave the different countries excuse out of the equation since we're talking about international engineering terms. When I shit, the bowels goes straigh down. I assume it's the same for chinese people or african people regardless how they count. Oversize mean roughtly that the part is growing bigger in diameter. It might be a bigger bore, a bigger piston or a bigger shaft. If you purchase a 80mm piston from wiseco and another 80mm piston from Suzuki, will the Suzuki piston be oversize because of the thicker walls due to it not being forged?

Oversize bearings would require a block overbore, which machinists are very reluctant to do. Unless extreme damage is done to the block, most of them will simply mill the caps a few thousandths in order to close the gap and from there, bore the block back to std specs.

This is a very informative and valuable thread. Why not use the appropriate wording?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:38 am 
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Jardamuth wrote:
I think we should leave the different countries excuse out of the equation since we're talking about international engineering terms. When I shit, the bowels goes straigh down. I assume it's the same for chinese people or african people regardless how they count. Oversize mean roughtly that the part is growing bigger in diameter. It might be a bigger bore, a bigger piston or a bigger shaft. If you purchase a 80mm piston from wiseco and another 80mm piston from Suzuki, will the Suzuki piston be oversize because of the thicker walls due to it not being forged?

Oversize bearings would require a block overbore, which machinists are very reluctant to do. Unless extreme damage is done to the block, most of them will simply mill the caps a few thousandths in order to close the gap and from there, bore the block back to std specs.

This is a very informative and valuable thread. Why not use the appropriate wording?


Ooo the shit...the topic which always comes after a few beers between guys. BTW, the shits also doesnt goes straight to the canal, there are many different types of toilets. Plus, in different countries, people dumps the cargo in different ways, like in some arabic countries, bulgaria, even some places in china, people wont do it in sitting position, but in standing, etc. And thats not the only weird thing.
But lets leave the shit in its own, and lets back to appropriate wording, when I used the word oversized, I translate it straight from the commonly used word for bigger, thicker, etc parts in Hungary, because in the catalog, the bearing's size is given in +x mm, like in the case of piston, a cylinder or a buttplug. And I dont think after that I need to make an excuse. Also, I'm not an engineer. But it looks like undersize is the correct international term, I'll use that next time.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:27 pm 
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You better, I'm watching you! =)

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:31 pm 
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Nice build! i am excited to see how much power you put down. This whole thread is a good read aswell, good stuff keep it coming!

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 2:46 pm 
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Thank you guys for all your comments and of course for visiting our thread!

I have brought a little update for you:

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:49 pm 
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SICK!!!!!!!!!

Can't wait to see the numbers =)

Chris

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:07 am 
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About the exhaust manifold studs. I wonder if they work well without the unthreaded part in the middle to seat them against the head?

I also had a problem using studs that looked like that from a hardware store. Thought they were at least 8.8 quality, but several of them broke when torqued as 8.8s, so please check the quality of yours before using them. I think that they might be designed to work as lock screws sometimes.

Exhaust studs from VAG will work:

Stud: N 0444115___approx 1 euro a peace. 45mm length M8x1,25. 15mm and 25mm thread lengths unthreaded inbetween.
Washer: N 90085001___approx 0.3 euro a piece
Crush nut copper: N 01155813___approx 0.6 euro a piece

/Peter


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:09 pm 
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This right here is FIRE! AWESOME build man!

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:16 am 
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sirspinalotgti : thank you very much, I appreciate that!

Chris: We are also very keen to see the numbers. :D Unfortunately, the project slowed down a little bit.

Peter: Thank you for warning us! We will test a stud. They were sold as 8.8 quality ones but we will check them! The nuts we want to use with them are made of steel and are also 8.8 ones.

Please write if you have any more remarks!

Ronne

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:58 pm 
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hi ronne i love your project man and the 16s are the best way too more power i am too building a 1600i turbo :) i have baleno 1600i turbo i have some work to do right now i am just getting imfo nice job man :)


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:58 am 
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Any updateds!!!! :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:31 am 
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MF89 wrote:
Any updateds!!!! :mrgreen:


:buzz: What he said! :buzz:

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:25 am 
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Thank you guys! :)

I have brought a little update for you. The project slowed down because there were some important things to do. We have some stock GTi's which could not be stored at home earlier. As winter is coming, a new garage had to be built for them:

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He also bought 2 sets of retro wheels:
This ATS Classic (6x13, ET14) will probably be the wheel of the other project-car, an Mk1 Sprint turbo:

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The other set of wheels (also 6x13) is under restoration now but some pictures were taken of them as well. Their fate is not decided yet:

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It turned out that the clutch that had been bought for the project doesn't fit. Another solution had to be found. We rang up a company which produces standard and racing clutch kits for EVO's and STi's and which is willing to produce custom kits if you have enough money. The clutch that was made for this project is good for 400HP and for a torque of about 500NM. The pressure on the disc will be about 1000kgs. The flywheel was also custom-made by that company. The kit was not that cheap - about 750-800 dollars - but we think that it will be just perfect for this project.

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Last edited by Ronne on Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:29 am 
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The project will be continued this weekend as we had to wait for the clutch kit. I hope the the remaining work will go smoothly and fast.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 6:02 am 
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Is that scale measuring in kilograms?

If in lbs :shock:

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 6:41 am 
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The scale measures in kilograms. :)

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