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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 4:02 pm 
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Hey all I have a 93 Swift 1.3 sohc that I recently put a holset hx30 turbo on. I have done nothing else to the engine besided the turbo. I currently am running about 5 psi at 5500 rpm but the problem I am having is it doesn't even start to spool until 3500 rpm. Does anyone have any ideas or tricks to get it to spool sooner? I know it is kind of a big turbo for a small engine it came off of a cummins 3.9L 4 cyl diesel. (But when is spools that car MOVES!!! :shock: )


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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 6:08 pm 
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you solved your problem....... "kind of a big turbo for a small engine"

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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 6:18 pm 
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That doesn't solve it, it just tells you what the problem is.

Is your exhaust as free flowing as possible? Put a performance cam in it. That will help.

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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 11:49 pm 
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No that does solve it. Hx30 is just too big.

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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 4:43 am 
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No.
The question is, how can he make it spool faster, not why it won't.

Telling him it's too big (which he already knows) isn't going to make it spool any faster, is it?

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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 6:05 am 
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Car chipped or aftermarket computer? With ECU you can play with ignition timing to bring boost on a little sooner (maybe few hundred rpm - turbos drive by heat) and an electronic MAC valve for boost control (Aftermarket ECU's will often have PWM outputs and tables where you can get the waste gate held shut a little longer and then quickly open at closer to set boost level - on standard the gate opens slowly so you get some leakage and hence delay on boost - probably not much given low boost). Also a very well designed set of equal length headers with a quality merge collector (google it if you dont know what that is) and appropriately sized pipes (small enough) to keep gas velocities up (will gain you a few more rpm).

All adds up to potentially max boost before 3000rpm.

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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 8:19 am 
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or you could just add 2 maybe 3 more pistons to the block

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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 4:37 pm 
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turbo dodge guys run the big holsetts from the 5.9 cummins on 2.2 4 bangers with really good success. But they typically use an automatic trans with a loose convertor, and spool it up before launching, and with slicks, can lay down some impressive 1/4 mile times. The peak power of a huge turbo is impressive, but it's difficult to set up to work in the real world. Good luck.

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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 4:40 pm 
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You can put work in to try to make an inappropriate sized turbo spool faster, or you can swap it out with a more reasonable sized snail. I've been both ways on my last boosted G13B, and was much happier just replacing the turbo.

Also, what sized intercooler tubes / intercooler do you have on it?

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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 4:47 pm 
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50 shot will help it spool.

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97 3000gt vr4 e85, high comp, bolt ons
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 10:41 pm 
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Are you using a twin scroll manifold? Smaller intercooler/ shorter piping will help but not much.

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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 9:01 am 
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Not running an intercooler just straight from the turbo to the tbi. The reason i went with a big turbo instead of getting one more suited to my engine size is it was free. We had a piece of equipment at work shell the motor and replaced it with a long block that came with a new turbo so I got to keep the old one :wink: I have not touched my engine except that it is bored out .020 from when I did a stock rebuild about 6 years ago. The exhaust is 2 1/4" from the turbo all the way back with no cat and a 2 1/4" turbo muffler. suprf1y I may try the performance cam any idea where I can find one for the 8 valve 1.3?


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 7:49 pm 
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FlyingGrape wrote:
Car chipped or aftermarket computer? With ECU you can play with ignition timing to bring boost on a little sooner (maybe few hundred rpm - turbos drive by heat) and an electronic MAC valve for boost control (Aftermarket ECU's will often have PWM outputs and tables where you can get the waste gate held shut a little longer and then quickly open at closer to set boost level - on standard the gate opens slowly so you get some leakage and hence delay on boost - probably not much given low boost). Also a very well designed set of equal length headers with a quality merge collector (google it if you dont know what that is) and appropriately sized pipes (small enough) to keep gas velocities up (will gain you a few more rpm).

All adds up to potentially max boost before 3000rpm.



I built my own header. The 4 out pipes are 1 1/2" each that collect into a 3" pipe about 4" before the turbo. I have heard perfectly tuned headers only add 3-4 hp how much faster do you think the turbo would spool if i redesigned it to maybe a 2" instead of a 3"?


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 1:09 am 
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First is it auto or manual. And a more info such as what you are trying to do with the car and budget would help.
Brake boosting could help. You could shave the head and raise compression. Swap to a dohc head. After maeket ecu very small shot of nitrous as said. Or even gearing with the trans.
I have a hy35 on my hybrid g16/13. I spool in first about 4k but it is just enough lag I don't just stop and kill the tires but in third the turbo really comes on and I can fry them off from about 60 tp 120mph. Thats why I say application mine is a daily driver. And if need be I have an antilag and can hit 7psi at 3500 to launch with


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 5:44 am 
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Props to you for building your own exhaust manifold, however what you have is far from optimal.

Let me start by saying I'm not an expert but I have played with a few manifolds. For starters on looking at the picture of your engine bay you might be better off going with a simple log mainfold
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I would keep the pipes no larger than exhaust ports (34mm or close to 1 3/8" on DOHC GT/GTi head not sure on SOHC head) and exit to turbo should match the turbo inlet. Yes the bends are sharpish but significantly less than what you have now, plus smaller pipes as mentioned will help with gas velocity. I think you dont have enough room to go for more. Using thicker schedule pipe or ceramic coating will help keep heat in the charge and also aid spool up. Turbo beanies and exhaust wrap help with heat management but strongly recommend against as they are rust promoters and will kill your manifold and turbo quickly. Doesn't matter if welds are rough on outside but should be smooth on inside. We are only talking hundreds of rpms and assuming you dont really want or have money to throw at it there are not many options.

What is your turbo intake like? Any bends or restrictions?

Basically the items I have discussed above are about major elements to gas flow for turbo. Restrictions to flow (pipe bends, lengths, obstructions - eg. filters), gas velocity (pipe diameter, heat in flow). Everything you can do to optimise these in your manifold design will pay dividends and are worthwhile improvement over existing setup.

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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 11:43 am 
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Thanks FlyingGrape for all the great feedback. Yeah my budget is pretty small this was my first ever manifold build and turbo install and everything was made with random material laying around the shop. The biggest problem was we do not have a tubing bender. I like what you have pictured there I may try to recreate that design.

Stephennmm it is a 5 speed manual. I use it for both daily driving and autocross/rallycross. These are pretty slow speed races rarely getting out of 3rd gear. Lots of tight corners so I find myself seriously mashing 1st to get good drive out of the corner and stay in the power band when I hit 2nd. I would like to be able to stay in 2nd through some of these corners coming off the apex at 2k to 2500 rpm and already under boost.

Lots of good ideas here many of them I will try thanks all who responded. More ideas are always appreciated thanks.


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 12:28 pm 
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If thats the case it may just be too big. Raise compression which will give you better out of boost power and will help spool time. Me personally Inoticed a good diff on wrapping the majifold. Try getting a diff trans. Short gears would help for out of boost but hurt spool time. For what you are wanting I think your looking the wrong way to get the power with that turbo.


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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 12:10 pm 
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Guess I gotta start spending money. Bummer


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