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Knock sensor and crank sensor
http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=61601
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Author:  miniswift [ Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Knock sensor and crank sensor

Hi,

As you know I'm building a turbo engine in shoe string budget.

I will be using Adaptronic ECU and I believe it can run with both of them.

So I would like to ask you people for your opinions.

I will be using G10 crank shaft pulley with modified trigger wheel running 36-1 teeth.

Image

Oil pump will be G16 Vitara with sensor hole built in with higher volume Suzuki RD veins.

Image

For this setup, you have to run this oil sump.

Image


Do you think 35 teeth setting which is 10 degrees will be accurate enough? I couldn't fit 60 teeth in there as it is a very small diameter wheel. Not sure sensor will pick up if teeth is too small. As it is, a teeth is same size as G10 standard width.

My question is to find suitable knock sensor for me to fit on back of the block.

Do you recommend any to work with Adaptronics?

Let me know what you guys think.

Cheers
Atchi

Author:  erickramos [ Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Knock sensor and crank sensor

oil pump g10, g13 and g16 is the same?

Author:  miniswift [ Mon Dec 19, 2016 5:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Knock sensor and crank sensor

Hi,

I think G10 and G13A are same but not G13B.
G16 has bigger volume than G13B.

Let me know if anyone else knows better.

Cheers
Atchi

Author:  t3 ragtop [ Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Knock sensor and crank sensor

my factory parts books indicate that the oil pumps are the same for g10, g10t, g13a, g13b, g13k (mk1 twincam,) and mk2/3 dohc 16 valve engines. these all have sump return over pressure protection valves set at 55 psi.

i don't have a factory parts manual for the g16 engine.

i built my blue monster turbo3 using a 36-1 timing reluctor and it provides excellent data resolution with the megasquirt controller. you can get a large count from the teeth leading edges and a small count if you use the leading and falling edges of the teeth. just the large count gives you resolution to 10 degrees of crank rotation.

i used the 5" 36-1 trigger wheel from a ford aerostar concentrically mounted to one of suprf1y's 4" aluminum under drive pulleys which gave me a nice, lightweight unit for timing. i also highly recommend a hall effect device gear tooth sensor instead of a magnetic generator type due to the fact that a v/r sensor actually generates a rising voltage as rpm increases. my experimentation with v/r sensors showed that voltage as high a 70 vac was generated at 6000 rpm, more than enough to cause issues with the signal conditioning section of the controller. the high voltages generated caused timing farts and resets. the hall effect devices i chose produce a solid 4.76 v square wave pulse tested up to 19,200 rpm. there is no increase in amplitude, just the collapse of the generated square wave as frequency (rpm) increases. :wink:

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Che ... s5Xg%3d%3d

i used a small board like this for signal conditioning. remove the built on hall effect sensor and join the wires from the cherry gear tooth sensor to the pin outs. the little board will give you an outboard signal conditioner with ttl/digital output to bypass any on-board signal conditioning. i was able to apply the 0/4.76 v output directly to the pins on the engine management controller's cpu.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hall-Sensor-Mag ... 8327wt_804

the knock sensor used with the turbo3 and cultus controls is a hitachi microphone. when i built the blue monster i adapted a bosch sensor to work with the knocksense ms that boris sells on line. the microphone and knocksense control unit's comb filter was designed to work with vag volvo brick engines but works brilliantly with the suzuki engines,

http://www.viatrack.ca/

i see the original post date was april 2016 but if you are still in development mode, you might be able to use this info. i scrapped my usage of the v/r sensors after doing an assessment of turbohull's turbo3 carnage which sent a rod through his block. i determined that the v/r sensor's high voltage output caused a timing reset and misfire under load and at high boost. that's why i bench tested the hall effect devices to 19,200 with a stable and solid count.

i also used a proximity type hed on the valve cover to see the south pole of a neodymium magnet embedded in the aluminum adjustable cam gear to indicate cam phase for true sequential operation. :wink:

Author:  miniswift [ Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Knock sensor and crank sensor

Hi t3,

I'm still in development stage for sure.
My engine block is now almost finished with oil squirters fitted and bored out to 76mm cast steel liners.
Once I get it back, I will start to assemble my engine. I think it will be easier to do this while engine is out and able to change easily.

I will look into your posted links and everything to go with my Adaptronics ECU.

Thanks for your help. Greatly appriciated.

Cheers
Atchi

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