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AMR300 Supercharger on 1.0 3cyl fueling HELP!
http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=62183
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Author:  AndyZZZ [ Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:08 am ]
Post subject:  AMR300 Supercharger on 1.0 3cyl fueling HELP!

Okay, I know the topic has been somewhat covered before but I’d need some clear answers from people with experience.
I’m looking to supercharge my swift (2001 3cyl 1.0 TBI) I already have the supercharger (AMR300), But I just simply don’t want to start doing anything until somebody with reasonable knowledge reassures me that the stock fuel system can take 5 PSI, I’m running all stock internals stock everything. so far what I have read on the topic is that the stock engine can take 5 psi no problems, I’m just unsure if I have to do anything with the fuel system? Of course I’m trying to avoid any detonation, so higher octane fuel and retarded timing has to happen.
So my questions would be:
- Would the ECU be capable to deal with boost and adjust the fuelling map accordingly?
- Do I need to do anything at 5 psi so the engine gets enough fuel?
- I know I have to retard the base timing manually (it’s quite advanced as of now) any advice on how much retarding it needs?
- Blow through setup or no? (from what I know the injector spraying into the supercharger is good for cooling it, probably not so good for throttle response and fuel delivery as the injector would be very far from the actual intake. I’m just trying to think logically here)
- would I need the CTS mod?
- What’s the injector flow rate for the 1.0?

Of course I’ll take any advice from people with previous, supercharging/turbo experience. I’m on a very limited budget, so apart from the supercharger I’m getting a Wideband sensor and a boost gauge so just the necessities for monitoring (potential death :lol:) of the engine

Author:  t3 ragtop [ Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: AMR300 Supercharger on 1.0 3cyl fueling HELP!

the map sensor should be able to handle 5 psi but the injector headroom is questionable as is the g10 fuel pump. i'd recommend running a fuel pump for the gt/ turbo3 along with a rising rate fuel pressure regulator. neuter the pressure regulator built into the throttle body which will allow the injector to make use of the higher fuel pressure.

you will need the wide band to do the tuning. use a recirculating valve to make sure that the boost pressure doesn't exceed your set point, and don't get too crazy with your timing advance.

blow through should be okay as long as you run a suitable pressure hat on the throttle body although intercooling would be difficult.

always subject to debate is the strength of the engine internals. the crank should be okay but i have had the misfortune of bending or stretching connecting rods and breaking or melting pistons while trying to boost stock g10 engines.

my 2 cents. :wink:

Author:  AndyZZZ [ Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: AMR300 Supercharger on 1.0 3cyl fueling HELP!

t3 ragtop wrote:
the map sensor should be able to handle 5 psi but the injector headroom is questionable as is the g10 fuel pump. i'd recommend running a fuel pump for the gt/ turbo3 along with a rising rate fuel pressure regulator. neuter the pressure regulator built into the throttle body which will allow the injector to make use of the higher fuel pressure.

you will need the wide band to do the tuning. use a recirculating valve to make sure that the boost pressure doesn't exceed your set point, and don't get too crazy with your timing advance.

blow through should be okay as long as you run a suitable pressure hat on the throttle body although intercooling would be difficult.

always subject to debate is the strength of the engine internals. the crank should be okay but i have had the misfortune of bending or stretching connecting rods and breaking or melting pistons while trying to boost stock g10 engines.

my 2 cents. :wink:



Thank you so much for the information, i'll make sure sure to put a manual fuel pressure regualtor on my "to buy" list :D, i have got the pulley sizes somewhere but as you have probably guessed im using the spare pulley on the crank that was meant for he AC pump so the boost wont go over 5 psi too much
With the right ratios.

If worst comes to worst i had an idea on using an arduino or an MMstick and a few resistors to make a little more advanced version of the CTS mod, basically to automatically switch resistance on the CTS depending on RPM or boost to keep the good old 14:1 AIr fuel ratio which has great potential to work in my opinion without the need for an expensive ECU so technically its a CTS Control unit :D

As for engine compnents lasting thankfully i can sneak the pistons and rods into our 3D laser scanner at work then (with keeping the original compression ratio) i can transfer the files onto the 3D mill and make some billet pistons and rods for myself from some stronger steel (this is if the stock internals dont last)

Its amazing what technology can do for us these days :D

Author:  suprf1y [ Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: AMR300 Supercharger on 1.0 3cyl fueling HELP!

Several members in the past have run 4-5 psi on stock electronics successfully. If you do need more fuel the CTS mod will do exactly what you need. A small linear potentiometer, maybe 5k max, triggered by a pressure switch will give you all the fuel you need, and the stock pump and injector should be fine. The stock pistons and rods are easily good for double the stock power. I've run them to double digit boost, and 9000 RPM without issue, and have had a number of customers do the same, but with lower RPM. The only way you'll break anything is if you make a big mistake with fuel and timing. Start with stock timing and bump it up as you can by taking plug readings.

Author:  AndyZZZ [ Sat Dec 17, 2016 10:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: AMR300 Supercharger on 1.0 3cyl fueling HELP!

suprf1y wrote:
Several members in the past have run 4-5 psi on stock electronics successfully. If you do need more fuel the CTS mod will do exactly what you need. A small linear potentiometer, maybe 5k max, triggered by a pressure switch will give you all the fuel you need, and the stock pump and injector should be fine. The stock pistons and rods are easily good for double the stock power. I've run them to double digit boost, and 9000 RPM without issue, and have had a number of customers do the same, but with lower RPM. The only way you'll break anything is if you make a big mistake with fuel and timing. Start with stock timing and bump it up as you can by taking plug readings.



Thank you for the reassurance suprf1y :) i will keep posting updates in this thread with pictures on how the project goes :)

Author:  AndyZZZ [ Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: AMR300 Supercharger on 1.0 3cyl fueling HELP!

So just an update

As funds are limited at the moment the project is on halt for a little while. I've also come across Speeduino on a thread and looked into it so i will most probably be getting one for the project, it should make a load of things easier hopefully. its really not against me to learn how to tune an ECU well, so I've been reading a lot, first off i'll be getting the Speeduino and tuning everything to run nicely N/A.
eventually when the supercharger is on, i'll adjust the tune. it might be overkill But i do like the idea of having an ECU that i can mess around with for future things e.g. im looking for an exhaust manifold, and i also have a different head on the way that i'll port and polish (at this point i should just get another G10 :lol: )

so yeah things are going slowly but surely

Author:  wheaters [ Sun Feb 05, 2017 3:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: AMR300 Supercharger on 1.0 3cyl fueling HELP!

Andy,

I've fitted a G10 engine in my Liege trials car. I've fitted an Eaton M24 supercharger to it. I had to design and build my own fuel injection system so I can't give advice on the capabilities of the standard fuelling components. The fuel goes in after the blower but I don't have an intercooler. But it runs up to 11 psi boost with no other mods and has so far managed to remain reliable. The standard engine now gives just over 80 hp.

Image

Author:  Dattman [ Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: AMR300 Supercharger on 1.0 3cyl fueling HELP!

Cheers Wheater, more pics please, and just how much does your trials car weigh? that sort of motorsport event seems to be a UK only thing, might only be 80hp but the torque is probably double, I think your setup would go well in an autotest mini 8)

Author:  AndyZZZ [ Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: AMR300 Supercharger on 1.0 3cyl fueling HELP!

80 HP on 11psi? Is that at the wheels or crank?

Author:  wheaters [ Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: AMR300 Supercharger on 1.0 3cyl fueling HELP!

80 hp will be at the crank. It's not a lot but it's almost double what my original engine (not a G10) put out. It's certainly not slow and it's 'interesting' to drive on its 145 x 16 bias belt (cross ply) tyres.

The car weighs about 550 kg.

Regarding fuelling, the increase in air pressure in the inlet manifold under boost needs to be considered. The more boost it gets, the more fuel pressure needed, unless using a larger injector. The fuel at the injector sees boost as back pressure.

I fitted twin injectors capable of giving enough fuel for about 65 hp each because I wasn't certain how much power the setup was capable of. The second injector is programmed to come into use at higher outputs. Obviously, the standard "single point" ECU can't cater for this so an aftermarket one is needed.

Author:  innovateiowa [ Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: AMR300 Supercharger on 1.0 3cyl fueling HELP!

What size pulley did you end up using on your amr300? I have an amr500 and thinking im going to try a 2.95" OD one...

Chris

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