TeamSwift

Home of the Suzuki mini-compacts ! Your Home for all things Suzuki Swift, Geo Metro, Holden Barina, Chevy Sprint, Pontiac Firefly, and Suzuki Cultus. TeamSwift is a technical performance oriented community!
It is currently Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:53 am

Underbody braces, turbos and more!

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 56 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 2:13 am 
Offline
Moderator & FAQ King
Moderator & FAQ King
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2003 6:22 pm
Posts: 6460
Location: Vancouver, BC
GeoZukiGTi wrote:
...I haven't even been pulled over in almost 3 years

Hey are you ever going to try and get the pursuit video of your Geo?

_________________
jaguar,vettes&sprints wrote:
...can you inlighten me about lihtan's
( miracle pour hole)
maybe a picture Thanks


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:19 am 
Offline
Mama Said Knock You Out!
Mama Said Knock You Out!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2002 9:22 am
Posts: 5003
Location: MI
No, the plate on the Tercel is only 6 months old. They are still holding the video :(. They won't release it till the case is closed, aka, 6 years(statute of limitations). I have the copy order filed though. So when they close the case, i'll get a copy.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:14 pm 
Offline
Mama Said Knock You Out!
Mama Said Knock You Out!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2002 9:22 am
Posts: 5003
Location: MI
Well, it's still boiling over. Just not losing coolant. It's only if you drive it over 4000 RPM's for a sustained amount of time. It seems that the cylinder walls get so hot, it boils, and blows all the coolant out into the catch tank. Then, when I get off the freeway, the coolant in the engine is all vapor, and has soooo much pressure in the cooling system. But I let it cool, dump the catch tank back into the radiator, and it's full again. Anyone know a more durable antifreeze, with a higher boiling point? My current mixture should boil at 276deg. Those thin cylinder walls are passing a LOT of heat. It is bored 1mm over.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:20 am 
Offline
Moderator & FAQ King
Moderator & FAQ King
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2003 6:22 pm
Posts: 6460
Location: Vancouver, BC
Time for another rad. :lol: I'd also install an oil cooler as well, it sounds like you need all the help you can get.

You need to either raise the pressure handling of your coolant system (18 PSI rad cap?) or bring the temps down. Switching to straight water will allow you to absorb more heat, but your coolant pressure will go even higher, and your boiling point will go down. One trick I read about from ENDYN is to add a couple drops of dish detergent to your coolant. It acts as a surfactant, keeping more of the coolant in contact with hot engine parts. It's cheaper than Redline Water Wetter, and apparently does the same job.

One more thing, if you're in need of a quick ghetto solution: build yourself a water sprayer for your rad. Water can remove huge amounts of heat if you allow it to evaporate.

_________________
jaguar,vettes&sprints wrote:
...can you inlighten me about lihtan's
( miracle pour hole)
maybe a picture Thanks


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 12:03 pm 
Offline
Mama Said Knock You Out!
Mama Said Knock You Out!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2002 9:22 am
Posts: 5003
Location: MI
I tried the straight water thing. It boiled over REALLY fast :lol: . My local speed shop is putting a shim under the rad cap spring, so it won't blow off pressure quite as easily. We'll see how that goes. I'm also thinkin dual radiators would be cool. Do you think the water pump can handle pushing water through 2 radiators?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 12:55 pm 
Offline
The mad quebecer
The mad quebecer
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2002 10:06 pm
Posts: 4569
Location: Chicoutimi, Québec
GeoZukiGTi wrote:
I tried the straight water thing. It boiled over REALLY fast :lol: . My local speed shop is putting a shim under the rad cap spring, so it won't blow off pressure quite as easily. We'll see how that goes. I'm also thinkin dual radiators would be cool. Do you think the water pump can handle pushing water through 2 radiators?


:rollin:

OMG!! Jomo Is back!! All Hail Jomo !!!

Image

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 3:35 pm 
Offline
Mama Said Knock You Out!
Mama Said Knock You Out!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2002 9:22 am
Posts: 5003
Location: MI
:bong: :bong: :bong: Got any better ideas? :-P I've been to 5 places to find a rad cap that isn't useless.

You best bow down :-P Kneel to the dual rads! This building the most radical streetable N/A engine is becoming a pain in the ass! I was looking at an article someone made a while back about using a Ford Tempo radiator. That was in a newer model metro though. And he had to remove the hood latch pillar. I don't think I want hood pins on my car :roll: . Come any farther in the development of the bigger radiator Jard?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:27 pm 
Offline
The mad quebecer
The mad quebecer
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2002 10:06 pm
Posts: 4569
Location: Chicoutimi, Québec
THe rad cap is probably the last thing in the world I wil repace when I get cooling issues. I'm still running the stock rad on my swift (which is far from being in great shape) and I do not have cooling issues. Should I mention my engine is overbored also? and oh, it's curently making 239whp in turbo trim.

It's obvious you've got an issue somewhere. The water pump is either not working as it should or the rad is clogged up.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 3:29 am 
Offline
banned

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:35 pm
Posts: 1145
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Alan always yells at me for trying to go around an issue, and look at him do the same thing! haha.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 11:11 am 
Offline
Mama Said Knock You Out!
Mama Said Knock You Out!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2002 9:22 am
Posts: 5003
Location: MI
Going around an issue? :-P It's a very good radiator. brand spankin new water pump, 180 degree brand new thermostat... Ran a tank of straight turbo blue gas in it last night, because I thought it might be detonating, and still did the same thing. I've also tried... straight water, 50/50 antifreeze/water, 15/60/25 antifreeze/water/royal purple.. I bought a new radiator cap this morning, and the problem has almost eliminated itself :-P Rad cap spring was shot, but I guess that can't be the problem huh jard :rock: . I also turned up the idle a little. With the under-drive pulley on, idling at 800RPM's doesn't quite turn the water pump like it did with the gigantic stock pulley. I drove it on the freeway for 80 miles today already, and so far, it's only blown off about a pint of coolant. So I think the RADIATOR CAP was the problem. It was pre-maturely opening up and letting all the coolant out of the radiator. I guess when I rev it up to 9500RPM's, it creates an enormous amount of pressure in the cooling system. A car with a turbo has very different factors than an extremely built N/A car. I don't think comparing a turbo motor to a 9500 RPM N/A engine is much of a comparison.

Onto the dual radiator issue... I was thinking of that not as an uber-cooler, but something to cushion the shock of the cooling system pressure as I'm shifting from 9000+ RPM's. An overall larger radiator may help also. But I have not found one that could be mounted in any easy fashion, or without completely eliminating the hood latch pillar.

Rev your engine up one day with the rad cap off. You'll see the coolant level drop extremely. Then let the rpm's drop. If your radiator was full, it'll overflow slightly. Now, take that theory, double the RPM's, put it under load, and put a dinky rad cap on it. The amount of pressure the cooling system makes is insane. I need to add something in there as a buffer for the pressure somehow.

Thanks for doubting I put any thought into what I say though... I didn't build one of the most extreme N/A swift engines because i'm a fool.
:stfu:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2005 1:32 am
Posts: 254
Location: Kitchener, ON
Will it blow any coolant into the tank when the engine is cold? How long does it take?

I wonder if there is a crack in the block or head (ie, is the coolant really boiling or is gas escaping the combustion chamber).

You could also look into Evans Cooling NPG+. It boils at 375ºF, and can be used to increase efficiency and/or power (less chance of detonation). Their page is a bit clumsy though.

http://evanscooling.com/main25.htm

http://evanscooling.com/html/tech1.htm


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:38 pm 
Offline
The mad quebecer
The mad quebecer
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2002 10:06 pm
Posts: 4569
Location: Chicoutimi, Québec
GeoZukiGTi wrote:
A car with a turbo has very different factors than an extremely built N/A car. I don't think comparing a turbo motor to a 9500 RPM N/A engine is much of a comparison.


Hey hey, eas off here kiddo. If you can't take some humor, then don't post. A turbo engine is not comparable to a N/A engine but not necessarily the way you might think. A turbo motor increase internals temperature in a way that no N/A engine can do. I can assure you that my engine running 15psi @8000 rpm will create more heat than your girlie motor that will scream like a rape ape at 9500 without puting out more than a flmisy 118hp. As far as I know, the only thing that can get anywhere close to turbo in term of temperatures increase are NOS.

Btw, did you bypass the heater core? I seem to recall Roy having a similar problem with his swift no long ago.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 2:17 pm 
Offline
Mama Said Knock You Out!
Mama Said Knock You Out!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2002 9:22 am
Posts: 5003
Location: MI
Nope, heater core is still attached. It's not eating any coolant at all. It's all just going into the overflow. I let the car cool, pop the rad cap off, and dump the extra from the overflow tank back into the radiator, heh. Sorry about the bitching this morning. I didn't get much sleep last night :lol: . It's still blowing off a little coolant, but nowhere near as much as it was. I don't think the overall heat is a problem. I think it's getting hot spots and the coolant is flash boiling, creating big ass steam pockets in the system. When I pull the pressure release valve on the rad cap, only steam and a few bubbles fly out. Pre-detonation shouldn't be the issue, it's running 110 octane fuel. I doubt my 12.5:1 engine needs more than 110. If it does, i'm gonna get a thicker headgasket :lol: That 110 octane fuel is EXPENSIVE.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:53 pm 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 11:30 pm
Posts: 1706
Location: Rivendell
Quote:
I also turned up the idle a little. With the under-drive pulley on, idling at 800RPM's doesn't quite turn the water pump like it did with the gigantic stock pulley.


:?:
Your under drive pulley has changed the ratio of turns relative to the rpm of the engine all the way through the rev range, not just at idle....
ie, it doesn't pump as much water at idle as it used to, and it definately won't pump as much as it used to at very high rpm.. its a linear ratio.

Think about it, up the idle, up the heat generated, but the ratio of fluid being pumped is the same so you are on a hiding to nothing...

Unless, of course, I am wrong..... that is the principle of the under drive pulley isn't it?
It "under drives" the engine peripherals to save energy for the crankshaft? In doing that, it drives the alternator slower and the water pump slower....

Quote:
Rev your engine up one day with the rad cap off. You'll see the coolant level drop extremely. Then let the rpm's drop. If your radiator was full, it'll overflow slightly. Now, take that theory, double the RPM's, put it under load, and put a dinky rad cap on it. The amount of pressure the cooling system makes is insane. I need to add something in there as a buffer for the pressure somehow.


That is correct, the coolant level will drop as the pump picks up "the slack" but you cannot compress water more than its volume at a specific temperature.
No matter what rpm you go, the constraint will be on the pump pushing the fluid or the waterways, not the volume.
Two rads will assist in cooling the fluid only.

KAching.... I just got two cents change. and saved me buying an under drive pulley....
Of course, you could always get an "underdrive ratio matched" water pump pulley...
But then, it would no longer be an under drive would it?

_________________
Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.HP is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how much you push the wall out.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:32 pm 
Offline
banned

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:35 pm
Posts: 1145
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Jardamuth wrote:
GeoZukiGTi wrote:
A car with a turbo has very different factors than an extremely built N/A car. I don't think comparing a turbo motor to a 9500 RPM N/A engine is much of a comparison.


Hey hey, eas off here kiddo. If you can't take some humor, then don't post. A turbo engine is not comparable to a N/A engine but not necessarily the way you might think. A turbo motor increase internals temperature in a way that no N/A engine can do. I can assure you that my engine running 15psi @8000 rpm will create more heat than your girlie motor that will scream like a rape ape at 9500 without puting out more than a flmisy 118hp. As far as I know, the only thing that can get anywhere close to turbo in term of temperatures increase are NOS.

Btw, did you bypass the heater core? I seem to recall Roy having a similar problem with his swift no long ago.


Do you really think his engine is only putting out 118hp? honestly jard. :roll:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 7:34 am 
Offline
The mad quebecer
The mad quebecer
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2002 10:06 pm
Posts: 4569
Location: Chicoutimi, Québec
Why? do you think that's too much?

I doubt he will get more than 118whp with the mods he currently has. It's very difficult to extract hp out of a N/A engine

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 10:47 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:17 pm
Posts: 3566
Location: Georgetown, Guyana
A long time ago I came across this guy's website down in Australia with a single seater race car powered by a "Suzuki Swift GTi 1300cc 16 valve twin cam in it with only minimal modifications to let it make about 135 hp with a rev limit of 8,000 rpm"

He also seems to think he can get as much as 170-180hp normally aspirated.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:19 am 
Offline
banned

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:35 pm
Posts: 1145
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Jardamuth wrote:
Why? do you think that's too much?

I doubt he will get more than 118whp with the mods he currently has. It's very difficult to extract hp out of a N/A engine


I think its not near enough. He'll definately be putting out more. To bad Alan doesn't have a dyno local to him to get that thing tested.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: NA
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 12:11 pm 
Offline
Teamswift Racer
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2002 7:41 pm
Posts: 1697
Location: Armstrong British Columbia
This really sounds like a head gasket problem. Chances are the fire ring on the headgasket has been exposed to higher then normal temps and burnt away the gasket. Therefor allowing a leak from the combustion chamber into the cooling system.

Or the stock type TTY head bolts have backed off a bit. I am switching to ARP studs so that I can periodically remove head, or retorque without replacing head bolts.

_________________
89' Swift GTi Road Race car - 130hp NA - Helical Torsion Diff, 4.71 final Gti guts


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 12:41 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 2:26 pm
Posts: 4111
Location: seattle
i would think you have a mech. problem as well. you arent making any more btu's going down the freeway than before. and if you are, its not that much more. did the car heat up if you beat on it before the build? how about pump cavitation? could the 1.0 have a smaller impeller and you got stuck with one of those?

_________________
GO FAST TURN LEFT!! IF YOU HAVE TO TURN RIGHT, YOU NEED A ROUND OF WEDGE!!!

here is my sig. karma if you look

Dattman wrote:
If you want big wheels buy a tractor...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 12:58 pm 
Offline
banned

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:35 pm
Posts: 1145
Location: Indianapolis, IN
I wouldn't be surprised if it was the head gasket, he used one of those 'self sticky' type gaskets instead of a normal one.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:17 pm
Posts: 3566
Location: Georgetown, Guyana
tuffcarguy wrote:
i would think you have a mech. problem as well. you arent making any more btu's going down the freeway than before. and if you are, its not that much more. did the car heat up if you beat on it before the build? how about pump cavitation? could the 1.0 have a smaller impeller and you got stuck with one of those?


AFAIK the G10 & the G13 use the same water pump.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 7:32 pm
Posts: 764
Location: St.Cath Ontario
I agree with the head gasket idea. My overbored motor ran into the same set of problems as you are discribing. coolant would blow over and well I pulled the pan I found tiny shedded pieces of bearings in the oil pick up.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:41 am 
Offline
Mama Said Knock You Out!
Mama Said Knock You Out!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2002 9:22 am
Posts: 5003
Location: MI
I'm not using the stock head bolts. It's got ARP studs. Water pump is brand new. It won't heat up at all when I'm beating the crap outta it. In answer to your comment ellpee, yes, I do realize physics creates a linear decrease in water pump RPM's when using a smaller main pulley. I raised the idle so when the car is idling, it has enough RPM's to pump the water efficiently. I don't want it to pool up in the engine block. I just have a hard time believing the headgasket would be leaky, and it never loses coolant. Also, it never blows anything into the tank until I take it on a fairly long freeway run. Or beat the sh@# out of it for about 20 minutes. It's getting really cold out this week. It's gonna be sitting for a while. I'll save up some $, get myself a digital ignition system, an SAFC, and tune it. I bet it's spark knocking and making the engine head jump just enough to let some compression out into the cooling system. It does have 240psi of static compression :ez_eek:
And yes, I believe it's putting out wayyy more than 118hp. There's a complete mod list on my cardomain page. It better be putting out more than 118, it'll only burn 104 octane or better :lol: 94 if I turn the ignition wayyy back. Hence, why it's my toy, not my daily driver.
I'm gonna pull the engine head soon just to check the gasket. Anyone know if copper headgasket sources for the g13b? perhaps one with 75mm holes? :) I wanna drop the compression a bit. It's a little overboard on the PSI.
http://www.cardomain.com/id/geozukigti


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 10:50 am 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 2:26 pm
Posts: 4111
Location: seattle
you still have the shield next to the rad ? perhaps its an air flow problem at freeway speeds. before you pull the head, take it for a drive in a lower gear at 4000 rpm. say about 25 to 35 mph. or try blocking your hood up in the back like mistrial did. hell,take the hood off and go for a drive. easier than taking off the head,worth a try.

_________________
GO FAST TURN LEFT!! IF YOU HAVE TO TURN RIGHT, YOU NEED A ROUND OF WEDGE!!!

here is my sig. karma if you look

Dattman wrote:
If you want big wheels buy a tractor...


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 56 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group