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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 7:13 pm 
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So I talked to tekkie at redline and I thought I'd relay what he told me since there are people interested here...
He is running D16Z pistons which were modded to accept the swift con-rod which is wider, and machined to accept circlips to keep the pin(which is equal Suzuki to Honda, but hondas was pressfit, I guess, and Suzuki is full floating) in place.
A slightly skimmed head gives him 12:1(I thought it'd be higher, but this is what he reports)
He runs 98RON, which I gather is close to 94 for what we get at the pump here.
He's also running a BD10 cam(I don't know the specs on this, but it may help lowering dynamic compression). He's got ported heads too and all of this gives him 125hp at the wheels.

Not much groundbreaking, but just to get in all in one post....


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 Post subject: mmm
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:18 pm 
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mrbell321 wrote:
So I talked to tekkie at redline and I thought I'd relay what he told me since there are people interested here...
He is running D16Z pistons which were modded to accept the swift con-rod which is wider, and machined to accept circlips to keep the pin(which is equal Suzuki to Honda, but hondas was pressfit, I guess, and Suzuki is full floating) in place.
A slightly skimmed head gives him 12:1(I thought it'd be higher, but this is what he reports)
He runs 98RON, which I gather is close to 94 for what we get at the pump here.
He's also running a BD10 cam(I don't know the specs on this, but it may help lowering dynamic compression). He's got ported heads too and all of this gives him 125hp at the wheels.

Not much groundbreaking, but just to get in all in one post....


with quad throttle bodies :wink: 118bhp without the quad throttle bodies, hasnt really had it tuned properly yet though, still in the works. As bigger cams are waiting to go in etc too, so not much point tuning it now and then as well.

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 Post subject: .
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 5:09 pm 
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Nice to see someone who does NOT require spoonfeeding, hey Gus? :)


Glad someone took my subtle hint.

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 Post subject: Re: .
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 9:50 pm 
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OzMidnight wrote:
Nice to see someone who does NOT require spoonfeeding, hey Gus? :)


Glad someone took my subtle hint.


:shock: :?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 2:26 am 
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92_Metro wrote:
I have no idea about newer model D15's, as I am only throughly experienced in 91 and earlier Honda's. I believe that the D series 1.5 and 1.6 motors up to 2001 are all the same, expcept for the heads. Why else would I be able to bolt up a 2000 D16Y8 head to my 88 D15B2? I do not have the exact height of the motor, I'll check on that tommorrow. In comparison to my Sidekicks G16, I would say the Honda motor is smaller. Comparing against a G10 though, the G10 is definatley smaller.

AJ


Bore spacing of the G and D engines AFAIK are the same. There are a lot of aftermarket D-series pistons out there, including 78mm for sleeved applications.

The US D15 uses 134mm rods with 45mm mains and 42mm rod journals. The D16 uses 137mm rods with 55mm mains and 45mm journals. The JDM D15B is an interesting animal... it uses the 137mm rods from the US D16 but with the shorter deck height of the US D15, and it's crank has 45mm journals for both main and rod. It's also got the VTEC head that the D16Z6 has, it's basically just a de-stroked D16.

Deck heights for the D15 and D16 are 207mm and 212mm, respectively.

My point is that there are a lot of different D-series pistons and I know very little about them all, but the JDM D15B has the wrist pin in a higher position. Assuming you have the right length rod, you could use this to get a better R/S ratio.

If you guys really want to do some homework on D-series pistons, head on over to http://www.sohchonda.com. It'll take some searching but it's all there.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:25 pm 
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Lee aka ozmidnight sent me this link as hes having logging in issues:

http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=177711

Theres a table down the page

Prab

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 1:52 am 
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yep you can use honda pistons, i used it on a g13 block, i modified the rod eye to fit in the new pin. I used P29 pistons... yeah p29!!, ran the motor for 5000kms and stripped it yesterday to see if anything went wrong, the bearings looks brand new, not a scratch to say there was valve contact.. prooves clearences are perfect. I ran s suzi sport stage 2 cam, used a 1.6 ltr sohc head. Rpm max we took it upto 7400.

And the static compression was 380psi +/- 5 on every cylinder

air fuel ratios were 12.4 - 12.8 max... temperature was perfect, the started always suffered to start the motor..


rebuilding motor for turbo now.. g16a motor, low comp..


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 12:08 pm 
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It's nice to see someone do their homework and be courteous with the information. Thanks!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 12:34 am 
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domnic wrote:
And the static compression was 380psi +/- 5 on every cylinder


What is static pressure? Static means something that doesn't move. Is that the same as Max Pressure? 380psi is high!! The factory manual says 199psi is the standard pressure, but it doesn't specify anything different for the turbo model.

Hmmm


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:13 pm 
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Hey look what I just bought!!

Wish me luck!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... :IT&ih=010


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:42 am 
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whynot3cyl wrote:
the d16 are alot taller than zuki.


this is info could be true for th g13 but not the g16 which is taller than the honda block.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 7:25 pm 
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I think he means the pistons are taller. They have a longer skirt.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 8:21 pm 
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Yup :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:42 am 
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Sorry darrel :)

I measured the buggers just to make sure :?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 12:48 pm 
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It's ok. I'll do some measuring too. I work in a calibration lab for the air force. I'll let you know what I found.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:27 am 
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Got the pistons today. They look pretty good. They are longer and wider, but not by much. The skirts are longer is the biggest difference.

It's difficult to see a if the top of the piston (from the pin) is taller on the d16 piston. The sides of the D16 piston is taller, but the bowl (concavity) of the turbo piston is deeper than the stock piston. So the volume above the pin appears to be very close.

I was going to measure water displacement as I dipped it in water to measure the volume of the top of the piston, but the d16 is wider so it wouldn't be a good comparison. I could measure the piston top with micrometers and calipers, but it wouldn't give me a good volume measurement.

If I had some accurate beakers, I'd do the water trick and measure the volume of the piston. So I think I'll just slap in it and see what happens. I don't know much about turbos, but I'm assuming I can adjust my boost pressure if my compression is too high.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:29 pm 
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Ok here's the latest.......

Stock piston.........
228.0 grams
.740 inch from top of pin to the highest point on piston.

D16.......
230.1 grams
.800 inch from top of pin to the highest point on piston.

The D16 piston is taller on the top and bottom of the pin.

The mass measurements were made with a scale that is +-.2 gram. It's not the most accuract scale because of it's high range capability. The length measurements were made with a normal caliper that is accurate to .001 inch, but I would say .002 to be safe. So to get the D16 piston to stock height, I would need the machine shop to take off .06 inch from the top.....if any at all because other people say these pistons work.

I was going to measure the depth of the bowl as well, but there wasn't a depth gage in the shop at the time and our high-end standards were being used. If you guys want more measurements, let me know.

So you can see these pistons are close to stock pistons.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 12:50 am 
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Help!!!!!!

I've done a lot reading realized that a few people already posted this crap.

Anyway here's my problem.... I bought 75mm pistons on ebay, but the A$$hole didn't tell me they were .5mm over. So am I screwed or what?

Can the G10 block be bored to 1mm over? What's the max before it get's dangerous? (I seached previous posts)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 12:56 am 
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http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?t=6674

Am I talking to myself? Hmmm. Well it seems to be working. :)

I found the thread above and it talks about the max overbore is 2mm. Hopefully these pistons will work!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:40 am 
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Can anyone help darrel here?
I dont know much for the g10 engine but .5mm on a cast sleeves insert could be an issue with boost.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 6:11 pm 
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From one D to another D.

Thanks!

I'm assuming the diameter is 75.5mm for the piston. Can the cylinders accomadate these pistons?

After looking at it again I was able to figure it out.

Superfly wrote this in the other thread...
Pi r(bore in cm.) sq. x stroke in cm. x # cyl.
Assuming max overbore of 2mm,
3.14 x 3.8 x 3.8 x 7.7 x 3 = 1047.390cc.


that equals "base x height." Which is the volume of one cylinder.

(Pi)r (squared) is the formula for the area of a circle so 3.8 would have to be the radius.

So that means the max radius is 3.8cm. So the diameter is 7.6 cm or 76mm. Woooo Weeee! That's close!!

I keep doing this!! I don't know something, then I set it down and a few days later it just pops out at me and starts staring me in the face. :lol: I keep asking questions but I keep answering them too.

Thanks d !


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 6:17 pm 
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Oh shit! Is that too close? After all the piston to cylinder clearance can't be .5mm.

Or can it?

Ok I did it again. My factor manual says the piston clearance should be .02 to .04 mm.

I'm in there!!!!!!!!!!!

Wwwwooo Hoooooo

That's a huge load off my mind!! Seriously!! This week I plan to drop my block off at the engine rebuilders. Tonight however, I'm going to the Nutcracker.

Happy Hollidays. :ez_tongue:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 6:10 am 
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I went to the machine shop today and they said I need to do more research. :( I the main problem was that the piston I bought wasn't a full floating piston.

The pin from the D16 engine I purchased is the exact diameter as the G10 pin, but the D16 pin/piston is not a floating type. The machine shop offered a few alternatives. There are floating and non-floating pistons available for the D16 engines, but it's difficult to know what the stock sizes are. If a floating piston is available, does this mean the pin has a smaller diameter? If so, will it fit in the suzuki?

My alternatives are...
1) Find a connecting rod that is strong enough to be used in a turbo and still have the pressed pin size.
2) Cut the piston pin and use teflon buttons.
3) Go to wiseco.

Full Floating Pin (see circlips)....
Image

Pressed Pin
Image

I've read on this site that P29 (d16A1) is the correct piston to use so perhaps I purchased the wrong d16 piston. ??

Image

Check this out! While writing this post, I started looking on the internet for new info. I checked out the parts-dinosaur. It's it just me or is he selling turbo pistons????
Image

Image
Are those normal G13 pistons? My turbo pistons are identical to those except the valve cutouts are bigger on my piston and it appears these aren't full floating pistons. My manual doesn't show a piston with a bowl for the non-turbos.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:23 pm 
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Well guys I posted so many times about pistons that I lost track of where to post. I bought the G16 75mm pistons. They look just like the pistons out of my 87 G10.

I wanted to let you know that the machinist agreed the piston will work. It has the same deck height, same pin size 19mm and it is a suitable diameter. They’re both floating pistons too. The bowl on top of the new piston is deeper than the stock piston . He said the engine won’t have as much power because compression will be less unless I increase the boost from the turbo. He said that will be fine. It’s a huge load off my mind. Plus I wanted to add that these pistons have much better oil ports. My old piston was clogged, but the new ones have much bigger oil holes like the G13 holes. Also the valve cutouts will work too. The valve cutouts look smaller, but it's only because the bowl is deeper.

Here's the ones I bought.....
http://www.store.partsdinosaur.com/product283.html

So I'll get my block in about a week or so and the fun begins. :)


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