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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 12:18 pm 
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Perhaps this is new ground, I cant find anything regarding it.

Stock 1989-1996 1.6L 8V Sidekick/Traker engine appears to be a G16KC
Bore/Stroke is 75mmx89.9mm
Compression 8.9:1

Thinking can a G13A Sammi head be droped on to bump it up to 10.5 or so.
Cant calculate it acurately as the CV can be adjusted due to piston design.

There are NO pistons for the G16KC other than stock.
There are damn near NO mods for the G16KC other than home grown.
exaust/send your cam in for a grind/airfilter/shave the head a tiny bit and your done.

but I have verifyed the Cam for a G13A will go into the G16KC and work. not sure how much it knocks the EFI out, maybe someone else does....

anyone? anyone have the true CV of the heads on these 2 motors? anyone ever tried this?


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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 8:54 am 
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The 1.3 head has smaller valves, and ports.
The 1.3 cam has less lift, and duration.
Putting a 1.3 head on a 1.6 is a step backward, IMO.

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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 10:00 am 
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Plans are a cam to deliver power around 1500 to 5000 anyhow.

Perhaps my best mod would be an adjustable cam sprocket and ignore the head and cam.....
hard to get over the 8.9:1 tho....

suprf1y wrote:
The 1.3 head has smaller valves, and ports.
The 1.3 cam has less lift, and duration.
Putting a 1.3 head on a 1.6 is a step backward, IMO.


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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 11:29 am 
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Adjustable timing sprockets are, for most people, nothing more than decoration, and a waste of money.
I'm not sure what you are trying to acheive, but if it is nothing, then you are heading in the right direction.

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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 6:21 pm 
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Ok, RE: "I'm not sure what you are trying to acheive" here it is.
The stock engine does not make good power till 2800 ish then its good all the way to 6000 but really that’s fine for speed, LOUSY for off road. Tractable power is needed unless you plan to plow punch and ram your way over your stumps and roots and rocks. A proper off road driver crawls and picks their way through and needs low end tractable power at just off idle if possible, the low range gears are of course good for this but when larger tires etc get put on for ground clearance then you loose your gearing advantage. Well part of it anyhow. I need to move the power band from 3000-6000 RPM range to the 1200-5000 or so range. I also want more power but not a stupid amount, say 20-25% improvement would do nicely. The last thing I want to do is NOT modify the TB-EFI because it is very simple and easy to jury rig and repair on the trail. DOHC and MPFI etc are way better for good power delivery sure and its well known you can get 200hp out of a 1.6L DOHC etc but that would not apply to the use this engine is needed for. Oh and I do not want to go carb, EFI has a nice advantage of not having a float bowl, carb rigs on long steep up hill runs bog out and drop power like they lost half their cylinders! EFI keeps its power all the way up! Oh, if you can’t tell, I live in a very mountainous region. Crawling up a rock face for 5 or 6 stories of little rocks the size of engine blocks is kinda common place. I know most of the info on these forums is for raceing setups, but was hopeing someone here had some exp with the G16KC as its all but ignored on the general market.

suprf1y wrote:
Adjustable timing sprockets are, for most people, nothing more than decoration, and a waste of money.
I'm not sure what you are trying to acheive, but if it is nothing, then you are heading in the right direction.


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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 11:20 am 
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Just noticed who you are suprf1y! :oops: and that you do cam's for these engines, do you have any off road performance grinds availible for the 1.6 8v EFI Sidekick? seeking low RPM power =)
Adjustable timing sprockets btw are considered a fair fix for this problem on many 4x4's as they dont improve power obviously but used right can move the power band to a more useable RPM range. A few testers noted they could move the power band down 1000 RPM or more with relitive ease. I dont know if its the right fix for me tho, might make it easier to dial a cam down as I need but duration and lift stay stock, so no improvement overall. I would like a grind to increases duration and maybe a slight lift as well.
your input on this? Also I have seen posts stateing that I should NOT use a grind designed for a carbed engine, IE: a Sammi cam - as it will mess with my efi and I would not get a smooth engine as a result. As you are a cam guy, what is your take on this? was considering this: http://www.rocky-road.com/isky.html
But a bit afraid of it as I dont want to mess up my EFI. Figmo at RoadlessGear tells me the powercam 260 he supplies does not affect the EFI of my 1.6 as it has the same lift and only duration and timeing is altered, but his price feels high.
http://www.roadlessgear.com/Merchant2/m ... e_Code=RGL



suprf1y wrote:
Adjustable timing sprockets are, for most people, nothing more than decoration, and a waste of money.
I'm not sure what you are trying to acheive, but if it is nothing, then you are heading in the right direction.


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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:25 am 
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Quote:
I have seen posts stateing that I should NOT use a grind designed for a carbed engine, IE: a Sammi cam - as it will mess with my efi and I would not get a smooth engine as a result.


Nonsense.
What I was trying to say about the adj. timing sprockets was that most people who have them don't have the tools, or take the time to set them up properly.
That, and I have seen sprockets marked incorrectly, so setups that worked for one application would likely not work for another.
Not to blow my own horn, but this is one of the reasons the modded advanced timing sprockets are good value.
The price difference is obvious, but they take the guesswork out completely.
With the 2V motors, intake centerline manipulation, based on camshaft duration, is fairly well established.
Yes, you can see signifigant gains from advancing the valve timing, but rarely from retarding it.
Knowing where the stock timing is, and what you want to do, I see no problem gaining power across the board. Adding lift, and duration, but advancing 6-8 degrees can work wonders.
Keep in mind, though.
It is a 4cyl.
Low end power will be at a premium.

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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 7:01 pm 
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Not meaning to hijack, but what about adding a header and/or head decking (up the CR)(adj. sprkt coming into play perhaps?) for this app?


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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 10:05 pm 
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demomike wrote:
Not meaning to hijack, but what about adding a header and/or head decking (up the CR)(adj. sprkt coming into play perhaps?) for this app?


I considered a header deeply, but honestly the factory manafold is a header in its own sorts, it is of a 4/2/1 design and the scavenging lengths are fairly close to the headers out there, I plan a new exuast from the manafold back to open it up, but I see no reason to replace what is 95% right in the first place. From the manafold back I would call it 65% wrong tho....
I think what you are calling Decking I call shaveing. I am not sure how much I can up the CR doing that, and from all I have read it seems 25 thou is about all that can be taken. Thus far it seems a Cam, the exaust work and huck the airbox for a cone filter is all I can really do, I likely will shave the head since I have to pull it to do a cam nehow...
Cam comes out the back of the head on these, right into the firewall :( dumb design....

Wish I knew how much I can truely shave it tho. I would love to see 9.5-9.8 CR
Advanceing the timeing might reduce low end power, not sure here.
And I agree BTW suprf1y its a 1.6L I dont expect the world here, but I dont want to beat my clutch or my buggy to do what I want to do.


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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:36 pm 
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You shoulkd be able to take about .100"-.125" to increase compression.
I would'nt go more than this without doing a mock-up assembly, and taking some measurements.
Do the math, and see how much that retards your valve timing.
Advancing it will increase lowend power.

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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 1:45 am 
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suprf1y wrote:
You shoulkd be able to take about .100"-.125" to increase compression.
I would'nt go more than this without doing a mock-up assembly, and taking some measurements.
Do the math, and see how much that retards your valve timing.
Advancing it will increase lowend power.


oh wow, ok thats 100 thou thats a lot of meat! that would put (by my math) me up to 10:1 !!!
I am amazed that much can be taken.

what about- Copper head gasket (sizes available)
0.032", 0.043", 0.050", 0.062", 0.080", or 0.090" PRICED EACH
found those at OCC for the G16KC although the price is wow huge 125$

How thick is a the normal 30$ head gasket? any guess there?


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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 12:19 pm 
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couldn't make a guess for ya, but all of my 4x4 toyota's have had the same no low end power problem as your talking about, seems like all Inline motors have more headgasket problems then a V style motor, i've done headgaskets on ALLL of my inline motors with stock compression and it starts to get old after a while, I would go with the best damn Headgasket money could buy if your gonna shave that much junk off the head.

sorry i had to say something, 4 wheeling is my game and i've been following this thread for a while now haha :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:52 am 
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I got a G16A to swap into my samurai (it's the same as the G16KC) and I wanted to do exactly that, raise CR.
No, you will not find aftermarket pistons that work without modifying them. Only custom forged, and they are expensive.
What I did is that I used Honda PM6 pistons (jcc p/n 20652). I was aiming at a 10/1 CR and to do this you have to shave the top of the piston close to 1mm...the machine shop did this so I don't know the exact numbers. Of course you need to machine the piston for the valve seats.
You might be able to use the pistons from the K800 VTEC engine. The JCC p/n is 39702, OEM 13101-929-000.
On the exaust side I am using a calmini header, and custom built 1.8" cat back exhaust. When I first installed the header/exhaust on the 1.3 I had a noticeable loss under 3000rpm...but after 3k the engine did work much better. I haven't tuned the exhaust yet, it's one of the things I want to do right after. Aiming at 2-3k rpm.
I hope I will get the engine back early next week, but i won't test run it anytime soon, because I am doing extensive work on the drivetrain, but as soon as I have news I will post.
Hope this helps


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 10:39 pm 
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Has anyone tried using .040 swift gti piston's in a standard bore 1.6? I know both have floating pin's and are the same(19mm). In the piston section on here they were talking about using 1.6 vitara piston's in there gti's to lower they're comp. so why can't we use the gti piston's in the 1.6 with the standard bore. That would bring the comp. up in a 1.6 nicely and I'd like about 10 to 1 if I could get it.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 5:48 am 
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Hey Dale E, How about trying 1.6 16v piston's with your 8v head they are at 9.5 to 1 comp, don't know if the valve relief's in the piston's are deep enough look's like it might work. I have the same engine (1.6-8v) and I'm trying to gain some comp. without spending alot for after market piston's.


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