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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:56 pm 
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im trying to find a reason to do another suzuki project again,,but i dont want to do something that everyone has done already.........how about, a 1.6sohc 16v engine, with honda pistons to try and get c/r to about 11.5:1 or 12:1 ,underdrive pullies, have superfly grind up a wild cam, add a 4:1 header , 2 inch exhaust,no cat, and either modify the existing intake with a 60mm throttle body, or try to graft something like the toyota 4ag20v 4 throttle body, and a greddy emanage to tune it all....what sort of power do you all think can be made? do you think it would be worth the trouble? do you think this lot can make 170 flywheel power?

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:39 pm 
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You'll never get that kind of power out of a naturally aspirated G16B, it takes over 8000rpm and quite a bit of engineering to make it breathe properly and make power up there, a reground cam won't get you the lift and duration you need and the inlet rocker arms may need some work to provide the lift. You'll need extensive head work and larger valves too. Not to mention that an e-manage is of no use to run a highly modified engine as you're still bound by the rev limit of the factory ECU if you use e-manage or any other kind of shit piggy back.

I'd suggest getting a turbo, you'll make more power with less expense and have a more reliable engine. On a G16B with lowered compression (8.6:1) I'm making about 200bhp daily on 95RON fuel. This engine has seen some extended full throttle pulls, where it sits at 6000rpm, 15psi mostly for minutes at a time without breaking. Oh and you need an aftermarket ECU for this to work, the factory ECU is configured for an atmo engine, not a turbocharged one and the strategies it uses for control are incompatible with big boost turbocharged motors if you want reliability, and no piggy back can fix this.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:06 am 
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ive already done the turbo setup, ( probably the first person to do it),,,back in 2004 made 200+whp with super afc and std computer on a 1500cc sohc. on 90oct fuel .viewtopic.php?f=6&t=11060 ( the pics are gone now,but it was a detailed writeup with pics every stage of the way,it was all done for less than 1000usd with no tunning aids, no wideband,no knock sensor, just plug reads...up until a year ago this car was still running fine,never blew a engine...ive lost track of the car though as im told it has been sold a 2nd time since leaving my hands) if i can find a way to make 170, or roughly 145whp , ide give it a shot 8)

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:29 am 
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western, long time i dont give u a link. how things going down ur side? so near yet far away eeh?
nice 2 know u still in the bizz, likewise im goin 4 power, so ill stay tuned.
balrug, long time i dont come on here. how did the RWD project go, link plz?

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:18 pm 
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baldurg wrote:
it takes over 8000rpm and quite a bit of engineering to make it breathe properly


I'd start with a new set of rods and pistons. The longer rods you can get with the shortest pistons to get a reasonable CR. Higher rod/stroke ratio will make it breathe better and will allow you to go over 8000 rpm.

I'm not sure if honda valves can be install but they are 1mm bigger than suzukis.

you'll need to port the head and may be a new intake with bigger (and shorter) runners.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:49 pm 
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fede wrote:
baldurg wrote:
it takes over 8000rpm and quite a bit of engineering to make it breathe properly


I'd start with a new set of rods and pistons. The longer rods you can get with the shortest pistons to get a reasonable CR. Higher rod/stroke ratio will make it breathe better and will allow you to go over 8000 rpm.

I'm not sure if honda valves can be install but they are 1mm bigger than suzukis.

you'll need to port the head and may be a new intake with bigger (and shorter) runners.

well the 1.6 16v head has valves that are bigger than the gti ones...........
the 1.5 16v engine easily revs to 8000, so what if i bore out the block of a 1.5 then to 78mm ? then it would have the revs and the cc..........i think id want minimum 11.5-11.7 :1 cr. and probably a 60mm t/b.......hmmm...............but even with the stock rev limitation, could anyone make an educated guess as to what it might be like power wise...ide be intrested in doing this on a small budget though, as all my projects are budget builds( even the 200+whp turbo project cost no more than usd1000)

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:04 pm 
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western, will the SOHC be able to handle the pounding. does it have any handycap to the DOHC?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:20 pm 
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claude b wrote:
western, will the SOHC be able to handle the pounding. does it have any handycap to the DOHC?

on the 1.6, the revs might be limited to ~7000rpm for reliability reasons(long stroke weak crank) the 1.5 might be better for higher revs....but as it is im wondering what would the 1.6 be able to produce....what could be coaxed out of the engine....high c/r and more suitable cams and ecm tunning

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:59 pm 
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The weak 1.6 crank is a myth.
I've never even heard of a broken 1.6 crank!
I've run the same crankshaft for 4 years, revving to 6800rpm bouncing off the spark cut revlimiter every day with 15psi boost on top, sometimes more. Wrecked several transmissions but no crankshaft. I've even revved well past the limiter once when the transmission input gear blew apart at full throttle.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:27 pm 
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while i might agree with you on the crank, some people wont......you only rev yours to 6800rpm regularly, i was thinking of a 7000rpm limit...I have also revved my previous 1.6 gti setup to 8000rpm a couple of times, but i wont tell you i feel confident doing it....I have seen some bent 1.6 cranks from standard 1.6 16v with factory carb....

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:25 am 
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I think the weakest link limiting the rpm are the rod bolts, and the weakest link limiting the torque are the rods themselfs.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:42 pm 
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Yeah I've tested the limit of the rods a couple of times. At 17-18psi on my turbo motor they become unreliable and start bending, so I stick with 15psi for now.
Only maintenance I've had to do on the motor I'm running right now since spring 2005 is one rod change done early 2006 after hitting an unfortunate bug in the overboost limiter code on my ECU in -10 degrees celsius which caused a lean backfire blowing out an inlet manifold gasket and bending a rod.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:22 pm 
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ive run the 1500cc motor under boost and it seems to be fine at that level of boost

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:47 pm 
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Casually running 18psi on the rods in the 1.6 is fine, in fact I've gone 25psi a few times but it is playing with fire.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:53 pm 
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and i guess your ignition timing would play a role as to how much force is applied to the rods

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:34 pm 
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Not as much as you'd think, now having too much timing so the engine detonates is deadly of course. A detonation free, well tuned motor with lower compression is quite safe at 15-16psi, a motor running on stock ECU with a piggyback never has a chance at that kind of pressure.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:40 pm 
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well iv run 15 lbs of boost on the stock 9.5:1 setup with std ecu and a super afc,,,not the best setup, but can be done

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:36 pm 
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So, it will be pretty safe to stay under 6800rpm and 14psi. That will give something between 220 and 230 hp right? In a 850kg sedan it is 3.8kg/hp, spunds good to me!
fede


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