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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:54 am 
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Location: Barbados
How much market do you guys think there is out there for a G16 forged crankshaft?....As the G13 tend to have alot more weak points than a G16 does with the G16's only real weak point to me being the crankshaft not forged, the other minor flaw is its 90mm stroke, I think the G16 would be the better option to put the cash into to make the ultimate G series unit. It would directly go with the stronger 1600 gearboxes and if you really want to push the envelope can try adapting thicker liner D-Series sleeves to fit to go with larger bore than stock G16 liners would allow safely. I've seen a post where Strider was proposed with a top timing cover option for the G16 with GTi head hybrid combo for a clean sealed timing face and I believe its the B18 timing belt that works directly back with this hybrid engine so the Gates Kevlar belt can be used.

I know price determines the amount of interest but if the price is reasonable would it be a popular item?

I have a crankshaft shop getting back to me on a quotation for a Forged Billet unit with exacting stock crankshaft specs, only difference would be a stronger unit. 10 units is minimum required.

Cheers

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:58 pm 
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crank strengh isnt the issue, its the rod ratio created by the long stroke, and not enough room to run 'long' rods to gain a reliable ratio.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:57 am 
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Agreed, the g16b has a woeful rod to stroke ratio, if anything you would want to reduce stroke on your custom crank so you can run longer rods and you'll see more gains from increased rpm than you would for the extra 80cc if you were to reduce the stroke by 4mm.

To be honest apart from the closed deck the g16 is not a 'great' engine and will never achieve the sort of figures that a 4age or b16 can make.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 5:58 am 
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Reason I suggested keeping the stock stroke is if you change the stroke of the crank, then another set of big $$$$ has to be spent on custom rods, and maybe pistons if your looking for a particular rod length for the ideal rod ratio.....I suggested this because this is simply the easiest way of getting a stronger crank without having to worry about it failing and is a simple buy and drop in for anyone who wants the surety. I've seen couple guys use 1600s with success both NA or Boosted and had great results and some say they even rev their in the 9000rpm region with stock cranks.....Even Monster Tamija went 1600cc twin engine before he converted V6, and each of his engines was 444bhp.....and he wasn't the only one up in these figures. El Jet swift is quoted at 410bhp with stock crank, pistons & "STOCK CAMSHAFTS!! :o :o " revving to 7500rpm. Most stroker kits out there for evolutions etc only usually rev to about 7000-7500rpm.

With the more ccs of the 1600 block no need to be revving as high, and as you would know, revving reduces life span of an engine, and with revving alot more stuff has to be looked at to handle the rpm such as uprated valve springs, lifter capability, camshafts etc..So why not avoid this and have the same power output or more with the larger capacity block to start with, with the closed deck & steel caps, solid crankshaft and less expensive bits to make it rev reliably....Honda has a massive market out there and Toyota's 4A engine tagging along right behind them so their bits are easily and readily available at a very good price, since they are soo popular...Honestly if your not a die hard Suzuki fan I suggest going over to Honda, its much more worth the time & money you invest in it, or do a Honda powerplant & drivetrain conversion into the swift.

Don't take this as a bash or argument, its just my honest humble opinion.

Anyways I've been told yesterday that the newer G16s out of Suzuki Carry etc carries a solid steel crankshaft so I'm also looking into that option, if its true and if it would be cheaper to buy one new from the dealers over a new custom crank.

For those who are interested I'll keep you posted.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 2:45 am 
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DeTune wrote:
Don't take this as a bash or argument, its just my honest humble opinion.

Likewise, not trying to put down or knock your idea but your rationale might be missing the mark at bit.

I wouldn't read into what ever Monster has done with these engines, very few if any stock parts were used in his engines, he also has access to cad files direct from Suzuki so he can easily get custom stuff made to look factory, it's in Suzuki's best interest to make it appear he uses stock parts.

As G16B_Sedan mentioned it's the rod ratio not the crank, specifically it's the piston speed in the middle of the stroke, this is the reason you can't rev a g16b, if you only want a g16 for a road car then why would you spend all that money on a stronger crank? just use a factory one, you only need a stronger crank if you are going to boost it or rev the nuts off to gain an improvement over a g13b, if you are going to boost it then you are going to change the rods for sure, forged rods will be less than 1/3 the cost of a custom crank.

As for reliable g16b twincams that rev to 9000 rpm, only a couple of guys I know that have taken their engines to that limit and both were only for a very short while before they expired, in fact 1600gti is still arguing over the engine rebuild now, the only thing I blame his engine builder for is a failure to understand physics.

4age 81mm bore x 77mm stroke
B16 81mm bore x 77.4mm stroke
G16 75mm Bore x 90mm stroke

It's quite obvious which two were designed as performance engines and the other as a cruisey high torque engine.

I suggest you talk to Blake on redline, he has done the honda crank in his g16 twincam and has a very good understanding on these engines, he also knows the guy that used to build Tajima San's g16b engines for Pikes Peak :wink:


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 7:07 am 
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Cheers 8)

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:15 pm 
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if you want torque you go with a longer stroke crank/smaller piston but it wont spin high rpm

if you want hp you go with a short stroke crank/ bigger piston and it will spin high rpms all day long

thats the laws of engine physics that cant be beat.


so chose your poison. high rpm or low end grunt.


the G16 was NEVER designed to rev. all it is, is a torque motor for cruising.

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92 geo metro 1.0L 5 spd. 2 dr Soon to be my turbo swap car. (Dragonfly) sold
91 pontiac firefly, 1.0L 2dr auto. stock. (The crap can) sold
91 chevy sprint. 1.0L 5 spd. My first turbo swap. (Red rocket) now the purple nurple
95 geo metro. 1.3L auto parts car. (Scrap)
91 chevy sprint turbo, blueboy keeping it "stock"


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